Those Awesome Ultra Analogue Tapes

Jazzbo · Oct 2, 2013

Hello forum members,

I want to share my joy when I received 2 tapes from Dr. Ed Pong. They were, Vatail and Bach's Chaconnes featuring Xiang Yu on violin and Li Wang piano. The second tape was Sebastian Bach's Cello suite # 2 in D minor and Beethoven's 7 variations on BEi Mannern, featuring Sietse-Jan Weijenberg playing cello and Li Wang on piano.

However, first, I want to share with you my thoughts about Dr. Pong. During many email communications with this gentleman I've learned something about him that's very important to me. I truly believe he is a man who sincerely want us who don't know, to learn more about classical music and chamber music in particular. I have also had a number of communications with Mr. Tony Ma. He impresses me as being an engineer/tech extraordinary. He is one of the few people who can break down some electronic/tape terms that even I can understand. Both these gentleman seem to be dedicated to producing the best recorded music at a price that most of us can afford. I am still amazed at how they do it.

I have had a love for small and large scale choral works for many years but never paid much attention to chamber music. I am in love with the human voice and have many LP recordings of both large and small scale choral works. Many years ago I heard Sebastian Bach's Chaconne featuring Kyung-Wha Chung and could not get it out of my mind. I had never heard the violin played in such a manner and could sense the technical skill required to play this music. Needless to say I purchased this London recording. Later I heard another version of Bach's Chaconne featuring Hililard Ensemble doing the vocals with Christoph Poppen playing violin. This piece of music was so extraordinarily powerful and beautiful I was moved to tears. And now I have these new Ultra Analogue tapes and love the music. I've got to say here that Dr. Pong actually introduced me to the Bach Cello Suite which I had never heard before. The ebb and flow of this powerful music almost caused me to get up and dance around my music room. Again I found myself tearing up at the profound beauty of this music. I also want to say that the piano playing and support provided by Li Wang was powerful. What a talent. Thank you Ed Pong and Tony Ma for all your efforts getting this music to us. I certainly appreciate you gentleman and keep up the wonderful work.

Bob

Steve Williams · Oct 2, 2013

I agree Bob on all points

I have the same tape and as I have posted here before I am classical music ignorant however Ed's tapes are so well recorded that I was drawn in immediately

Jazzbo · Oct 3, 2013

Steve,
Thanks for your comments. However, you nor I may not know what key the musician is playing in or how the chord is structured, but we love great music. I sincerely believe Steve, we love this music because it touches us in a very emotional way. It touches our core and that's what's important sir.

Bob

Jazzbo · Oct 3, 2013

Early today I decided to compare my excellent London LP of Kyung-Wha Chung's recording of Bach's Partita # 2 in D minor for solo violin (Chaconne) to the Ultra Analogue's version. As good as this London LP is and certainly Ms. Chung plays masterfully, the sound does not compare to Xiang Yu's version. As great as the London version is, I don't get as emotionally involved as I do when Xiang Yu plays. I think it has something to do with the sound presentation. The Ultra Analog tape presents Xiang Yu and Li Wang in a more "life-like" way. So much so, it's as if I can get up from my listening chair, walk over and touch both musicians. I don't believe in ghosts, but this is a wonderful spooky experience and one that I want to experience as often as possible. Ed Pong send me several CD's of other Ultra Analogue tapes and I will review those to see what else I want to order. For now, I can't get enough of this taped version of Bach's and Vitali's Chaconnes.

bob

Steve Williams · Oct 3, 2013

Jazzbo said:
Early today I decided to compare my excellent London recording of Kyung-Wha Chung's recording of Bach's Partita # 2 in D minor for solo violin (Chaconne) to the Ultra Analogue's version. As good as this London LP is and certainly Ms. Chung plays masterfully, the sound does not compare to Xiang Yu's version. As great as the London version is, I don't get as emotionally involved as I do when Xiang Yu plays. I think it has something to do with the sound presentation. The Ultra Analog tape presents Xiang Yu and Li Wang in a more "life-like" way. So much so, it's as if I can get up from my listening chair, walk over and touch both musicians. I don't believe in ghosts, but this is as spooky experience and one that I want to experience as often as possible. Ed Pong send me several CD's of other Ultra Analogue tapes and I will review those to see what else I want to order. For now, I can't get enough of this taped version of Bach's and Vitali's Chaconnes.

bob

Again I completely agree. You can hear the musicians breathing and shuffling their feet as well as someone walking (not sure if that was Ed or his performers but for me it was nuances such as these that made me feel close up and personal with the performers. Hence classical chamber music. Ed said he would get me hooked on it and he is rapidly succeeding. I am also aware of his other hobby of making string instruments. All this and a very busy orthodontic practice to boot.

Kudos again to Ed

Jazzbo · Oct 3, 2013

Steve Williams said:
Again I completely agree. You can hear the musicians breathing and shuffling their feet as well as someone walking (not sure if that was Ed or his performers but for me it was nuances such as these that made me feel close up and personal with the performers. Hence classical chamber music. Ed said he would get me hooked on it and he is rapidly succeeding. I am also aware of his other hobby of making string instruments. All this and a very busy orthodontic practice to boot.

Kudos again to Ed

Steve,
It looks like many of us will be extending our love for this music together. And, it looks as if you are growing by leaps and bounds and that's great. You might end up putting a mini audio system to include a tape deck in your office area so you don't spend too much time away from this great music.

bob

tony ky ma · Oct 4, 2013

Bob
As I told you before, trust your ear, trust your own feeling , do not care too much on measurement like frequency response, distortion etc. enjoy the music but that is the beginning because there still have a lot of information in the tape, when you improve your system like switch tubes cables caps you will have more and more excitement again
tony ma

Edward Pong · Oct 4, 2013

Jazzbo said:
Early today I decided to compare my excellent London LP of Kyung-Wha Chung's recording of Bach's Partita # 2 in D minor for solo violin (Chaconne) to the Ultra Analogue's version. As good as this London LP is and certainly Ms. Chung plays masterfully, the sound does not compare to Xiang Yu's version. As great as the London version is, I don't get as emotionally involved as I do when Xiang Yu plays. I think it has something to do with the sound presentation. The Ultra Analog tape presents Xiang Yu and Li Wang in a more "life-like" way. So much so, it's as if I can get up from my listening chair, walk over and touch both musicians. I don't believe in ghosts, but this is a wonderful spooky experience and one that I want to experience as often as possible. Ed Pong send me several CD's of other Ultra Analogue tapes and I will review those to see what else I want to order. For now, I can't get enough of this taped version of Bach's and Vitali's Chaconnes.

bob

Xiang's playing has something very special, he's able to connect with the audience almost immediately. After just a few notes, he grabs a hold of you & "forces" you to listen.....I find I never daydream when he's playing. There is something very emotional & honest in his playing. As I got to know him, at 24, he's already been thru a lot of adversity. Maybe this is why we hear so much emotion in his playing....He lost his mother to cancer 2 years ago. He spent 2 months at her bedside in Shanghai & her last wish was for him to go to New Zealand to compete in the Michael Hill International Violin Competition. 2 hours after she went to be with the Lord, he was on a plane to New Zealand. He "learned" the modern commissioned piece looking at the score at her bedside. The 1st time he actually played it was in the competition & I think he even won the best performance for that commissioned piece!

So Bob & Steve, what you're hearing is "the real deal" & I feel blessed & fortunate to be able to record & share his music making with you all.

FYI - Xiang will be performing the Bach Concerto in E Major & Czardas in Trondheim Norway on Jan 30, 31 2014 with the Trondheim Soloists. For those of you who know the great soloist Ann-Sophie Mutter, this was the chamber orchestra she chose to record her fantastic Vivaldi Four Seasons CD with for Deutsche Grammophon

Jazzbo · Oct 4, 2013

tony ky ma said:
Bob
As I told you before, trust your ear, trust your own feeling , do not care too much on measurement like frequency response, distortion etc. enjoy the music but that is the beginning because there still have a lot of information in the tape, when you improve your system like switch tubes cables caps you will have more and more excitement again
tony ma

Good Friday morning Tony,

Back during the 1960's and 1970's there was a fine gentleman, Mr. Julian Hirsch who wrote reviews for Stereo Review Magazine. He believed strongly in electronic measurements of audio equipment. As a matter of fact, he was one of the first who tested digital/transistor based audio and said it measured better than anything else out there. Tube audio took a tumble because audio lovers felt measurements represented the very best way to gage the sound of audio stuff. Many audiophiles were not listening they were measuring to determine whether to purchase a piece of audio equipment. Later, along came people like J. Gordon Holt of Stereophile magazine and Harry Pearson or The Absolute Sound magazine. Both these gentleman, while totally not dismissing electrical measurements, felt that what one heard was just as important if not more so.

I believe strongly in what I hear as being much more important that what a scope or IM meter shows. Generally, if it's that bad I will hear it anyway. My audio system gives me pleasure whenever I sit down to listen. However, now, with the advent of 15ips 2 track tapes offered up by various vendors takes my listening pleasure to heights.

Tony, I want to say here that I believe your genius in developing electronics and upgrades have a major impact on the high quality of the Ultra Analogue reel to reel tapes. However, recording duplicates from masters at +4dB above 250 nVb/m contributes greatly to the realism of each tape. My joy and listening pleasure has been greatly increased and for that I want to thank you. As Steve said earlier, being able to hear when the musician takes a breath or shift position is simply thrilling. But having a sense that these musicians are so real in my listening room that I could actually go up and touch them is unreal. Please Tony, you and Ed Pong keep raising the recording bar because we all benefit. Thanks much.

bob

astrotoy · Oct 5, 2013

R2R, especially 15ips 2 track, will forever be a cottage industry. It was great that Valin did his article in TAS extolling the virtues and providing a near complete listing of what was and will soon be available from the small number of providers. However, my recommendation is that if you have the means, both in equipment and funds, that a high priority in your audio budget is buying tapes from Ed and others like him. My understanding is that no one doing this has quit their day jobs and they are definitely not getting rich on this. So if you have been thinking about getting that super fancy set of cables, instead spend the same money with Ultra Analogue and Tape Project and the few others like them. Even if you are not a classical music buff, listen to Ed's tapes - I think they will at least begin to convert you. Your head and heart will be better off.

Larry

Jazzbo · Oct 5, 2013

Hello Larry,
You've taken the words right out of my mouth. Those of us who are in this reel to reel thing, I hope will do all we can to support Dr. Pong and others as they offer us the best in sound reproduction. I know everyone here heard you loud and clear.

Johnny Vinyl · Oct 5, 2013

astrotoy said:
R2R, especially 15ips 2 track, will forever be a cottage industry. It was great that Valin did his article in TAS extolling the virtues and providing a near complete listing of what was and will soon be available from the small number of providers. However, my recommendation is that if you have the means, both in equipment and funds, that a high priority in your audio budget is buying tapes from Ed and others like him. My understanding is that no one doing this has quit their day jobs and they are definitely not getting rich on this. So if you have been thinking about getting that super fancy set of cables, instead spend the same money with Ultra Analogue and Tape Project and the few others like them. Even if you are not a classical music buff, listen to Ed's tapes - I think they will at least begin to convert you. Your head and heart will be better off.

Larry

I'm one of those people. I'm pretty much a noob, but I've had the privilege of hearing some tapes at Ed's house and I was simply blown away. I know if I were in the game I'd be spending my dollars on his tapes.

Steve Williams · Oct 5, 2013

You've been reading my posts Larry. When I posted my first thoughts about Eds tapes I said that they are so well recorded that even though I am not well versed in classical music but I couldn't stop listening to these three performers and how well they are recorded

BTW Ed seemed to prefer the tape in NAB rather than CCIR. Ed if you're reading was that my imagination and if not perhaps you can explain why.

Edward Pong · Oct 5, 2013

Hi Steve,
Yes, I prefer NAB to CCIR because it sounds more natural to me. The sound is warmer & the violin top end is more resolved & refined.....I've recorded in both & I find NAB has a warmer fuller mid-bass & a more natural smoother top end...... With the violin, I want to resolve the subtleties & colours of the instrument. I don't want to record in CCIR which boasts the highs on record & cuts it back on playback. Recording engineers I know also have the same feeling & have said the same....

Also, I'm recording at 396 nW/m & by boasting the high end on record, has a greater chance of overloading the tape....I feel, the less we mess with the signal, the more pure it will be - our thoughts throughout the whole recording process. Hence, no mixers, & I think IMHO that's why you're hearing the detail & naturalness in the sound.

I once had a conversation with Mike Spitz of ATR Magnetics about NAB & CCIR & to my surprise, he said the same thing! He prefers NAB to CCIR....

I just go by my ears...

Steve Williams · Oct 5, 2013

Edward Pong said:
Hi Steve,
Yes, I prefer NAB to CCIR because it sounds more natural to me. The sound is warmer & the violin top end is more resolved & refined.....I've recorded in both & I find NAB has a warmer fuller mid-bass & a more natural smoother top end...... With the violin, I want to resolve the subtleties & colours of the instrument. I don't want to record in CCIR which boasts the highs on record & cuts it back on playback. Recording engineers I know also have the same feeling & have said the same....

Also, I'm recording at 396 nW/m & by boasting the high end on record, has a greater chance of overloading the tape....I feel, the less we mess with the signal, the more pure it will be - our thoughts throughout the whole recording process. Hence, no mixers, & I think IMHO that's why you're hearing the detail & naturalness in the sound.

I once had a conversation with Mike Spitz of ATR Magnetics about NAB & CCIR & to my surprise, he said the same thing! He prefers NAB to CCIR....

I just go by my ears...

My Doshi tape head preamp can do both IEC and NAB

Ed.......I'll be in touch with you about ordering what I have in NAB to compare.

Edward Pong · Oct 5, 2013

We all know, every system is different & will sound different. I think with all the EQ curves, the playback curve is suppose to reverse what the record curve did. IMHO, if we don't boast the high frequency & cut it back later, it will be more pure.....we all know, even removing a contact in the tape machine, can improve the sound.... To my ears, the violin highs were more natural with NAB - in my system...it maybe different in yours..

Now, we get into what is the "right high sound" of a violin.....One needs to have the Strad in front of you to test!

Steve Williams · Oct 5, 2013

Now, we get into what is the "right high sound" of a violin.....One needs to have the Strad in front of you to test!

or a Guarneri del Gesù

Edward Pong · Oct 5, 2013

Yes - and each fiddle sounds different!

tony ky ma · Oct 5, 2013

Me too so lucky to have chance to listen those real sound of both Strad and Guarneri that help me in designing amp
tony ma

astrotoy · Oct 5, 2013

Steve Williams said:
or a Guarneri del Gesù

Quite a few years ago we were shopping for a decent violin for our daughter who was getting toward the top end of the Suzuki books, I think she was playing things like one of the Mozart Concerti and the Beethoven Spring Sonata. We were in a nice shop which did have a Guarneri del Gesu and the owner kindly let my daughter play it. She never was at the level of the violinists that Ed has recorded, but interestingly said that it was easier to play than her violin or others she was trying. I had just bought a few sets of Nordost Valhalla cables so my credit card limit wouldn't take the del Gesu.

We ended up buying a nice modern violin made by a Polish violin maker living in Chicago.

Larry

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