How close are you to the finish line

How close are you to the finish line

  • < 50% - Still have long ways to go

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • 50% - I can live with what I have, but could/want to go higher

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 60% - Individual timbres are highly accurate, in the vast majority of the spectrum

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • 70% - Small ensembles are reallistically reproduced (sans percussion)

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • 75% - Now persussion is also reallistically reproduced

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • 80% - I can reallistically reproduce a grand piano

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 85% - Piano, ensembles, chamber orchestras, voices, strings, drums are all reallistic

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • 90% - Everything except scale is reallistically reproduced

    Votes: 7 20.0%
  • 95% - Scale and overall level of reproduction is shockingly life-like with just about anything

    Votes: 8 22.9%
  • 100% - I can accurately reproduce any musical performance

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Total voters
    35

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,596
11,689
4,410
i have not answered the survey.

i would say my system can reproduce ' very close to' whatever gets to the recording....and makes it thru to the media. however; that is never 100% of any large scale instrument. the limitation is the recording/mastering/media chain, 'mostly'......not the system.

i think 'very close to' and 'mostly' is as close as a system can get to the whole enchalada. 100% is simply not possible, it's a theoretical goal.

so 99ish%, not 100%.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,702
2,790
Portugal
I said 95%, I still have a few items to address...More Odin and or Valhalla 2 cabling, perhaps a new preamp and a tube tape preamp.

Valhalla2 should bring your score to at less 140%! ;)
 

Frank750

VIP/Donor
Jul 8, 2011
821
1
928
I'm still waiting for my Odin quote. I am not sure I will be able to stomach it, especially the 5 meter pre to power XLR I need.

Long runs of MIT are actually reasonable compared to other cables. Well, let me correct that, the price doesn't escalate as quickly as other brands when you need a long run. The MA-X SHD interconnects are the finest I've listened to.
 

DSkip

Industry Expert
Aug 26, 2013
442
194
350
Arlington, TX
www.audiothesis.com
How could you ever say you're there? Using your favorite reference media? One album may sound spot on, while another still well-recorded album is off the mark a bit. How do you hit the mark when the mark is in constant flux?

I think the better question would be based on the satisfaction level of each participant. Personally, I feel I'm a decent source and a few nos tubes away from being 90% satisfied with my system.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
i have not answered the survey.

i would say my system can reproduce ' very close to' whatever gets to the recording....and makes it thru to the media. however; that is never 100% of any large scale instrument. the limitation is the recording/mastering/media chain, 'mostly'......not the system.

i think 'very close to' and 'mostly' is as close as a system can get to the whole enchalada. 100% is simply not possible, it's a theoretical goal.

so 99ish%, not 100%.

Good enough to be in the top 100% category. ...99 is closer to 100 than 95.

* On my own scale, I'm at 33.33% (not even part of the poll here). ...It's god to have a wide margin, for future improvement, and more readings and discoveries from audio forums. ...And mags. :b
...33.33% happiness, and 66.66% in desires and dreams to be still fulfilled before I leave this planet. ...Without future discoveries there would be no incentive to live the present and think that we're satisfy enough as it is. ...In the long run that present will become extremely boring and routine.
 
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Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,797
4,550
1,213
Greater Boston
Not lying here. I'm getting 100% according to the chart. I get real bass and real scale. There is always change though, some systems are more detailed, some more musical, some more etched, some have more ambiance... but they all end up 100%.

OK, everyone fess up! Who else voted 100. I know I have an advantage but I still have to put it all together and make it work.


You may think that your system gives you a great illusion of the real thing -- and I experience that too on some recordings in my own system, to a degree that it puts a big smile on my face -- but going to an actual live concert is the healthy dose of reality that always brings you nicely down to earth again.

Not just timbres, also mere scale is an issue. Even if your room were 30' by 30', you cannot reproduce the sheer scale of a large orchestra at home, certainly not from the fifth row in the concert hall, and hardly even from the tenth. From the 15th or 20th row, perhaps, but in a live situation the timbres would be less direct from such a perspective than what you hear on recordings.

It is (physically) impossible to achieve 100 % at home.


I am very happy with my system - haven't made many changes in the past decade other than adding digital. However, when comparing to say a grand piano, we have two of them in the living room next to the hi-fi room, including a Bosendorfer 225 (7'4" with 92 keys)... If you have a fine pianist playing at full dynamic range, there isn't one system that I have heard (including the Magico Q5/Constellation, Winston Ma's super system, or even our fearless leader's Wilson/Lamm (when he was in the Bay Area) system, that provides the dynamic range of a great real grand piano. We also had 4 members of the San Francisco Symphony and a pianist playing the Schubert Trout Quintet in our living room last Fall. Again, nothing close to being 20 feet away from great live musicians playing real music. I didn't think about imaging, depth, etc, etc - just being in the moment with real live music.

Larry

Now that is a much more realistic answer. Bravo!

But what is realism anyway? Perhaps if you don't define it in terms of timbre, physical impact (no system I've heard can reproduce a real drum kit) and scale, but in terms of the reproduction of the life and excitement of music, then some systems can indeed come subjectively very close. And isn't that more important than an exact physical reproduction?

Al
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
You may think that your system gives you a great illusion of the real thing -- and I experience that too on some recordings in my own system, to a degree that it puts a big smile on my face -- but going to an actual live concert is the healthy dose of reality that always brings you nicely down to earth again.

Not just timbres, also mere scale is an issue. Even if your room were 30' by 30', you cannot reproduce the sheer scale of a large orchestra at home, certainly not from the fifth row in the concert hall, and hardly even from the tenth. From the 15th or 20th row, perhaps, but in a live situation the timbres would be less direct from such a perspective than what you hear on recordings.

It is (physically) impossible to achieve 100 % at home.




Now that is a much more realistic answer. Bravo!

But what is realism anyway? Perhaps if you don't define it in terms of timbre, physical impact (no system I've heard can reproduce a real drum kit) and scale, but in terms of the reproduction of the life and excitement of music, then some systems can indeed come subjectively very close. And isn't that more important than an exact physical reproduction?

Al

Great post! I concur.

Also agree with Astrotoy.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,319
1,429
1,820
Manila, Philippines
I like scale and I feel that's where I'm still a bit short given that my room is on the large side at over 8,000 cubic feet. When I step up to VR-11s which are essentially stacked VR-9s with the added benefit of having another pair of subs six feet off the ground (with independent and not slaved controls), for my room I should be at 99%. I've already got my sources where I like 'em with the AirForce One, Tentation and the Da Vinci. Same with my amplification with the 4 M2.2s. The room is currently being fitted out in preparation for the increased LF output of the 11s.

It will be a Happy New Year indeed. Well okay maybe a few Master Built Ultra Alloy ICs which I just finished Beta testing will make an appearance eventually.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,478
1,002
1,320
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Good evening WBF members. Hmmmm, interesting poll. I'll bite. :)

60% - Individual timbres are highly accurate, in the vast majority of the spectrum
Good to go. Still room for improvement.

70% - Small ensembles are realistically reproduced (sans percussion)
In a surreal way. Outstanding, if you will.

75% - Now percussion is also realistically reproduced
Nowhere even close unless one is listening at extreme lower volume levels. Does it sound great from low levels to concert levels? Oh yeah, no doubt. Realistic? Eh, technology has a LONG way to go before we ever get there no matter what system one might have.

80% - I can realistically reproduce a grand piano
Yeah right. I believe this has much to do with the recording as much as the playback. Maybe even more so.

85% - Piano, ensembles, chamber orchestras, voices, strings, drums are all realistic
There's that "realistic" word again. For reproduction, many say it is outstanding and that they wouldn't change a thing. Realistically, I would beg to differ. No pun intended.

90% - Everything except scale is realistically reproduced
Perhaps. Depends on who is listening/what their personal preferences are. To me, close but yet still so far away. It's that "realistic" word again. Perhaps "believable" or "outstandingly acceptable for a reproduction" would have worked better.

95% - Scale and overall level of reproduction is shockingly life-like with just about anything
Now you are talking. Yes, it always comes down to the recording and in the past I might have played my reference material when guests came over but not anymore. I now play what it is they want to hear and if they are interested in something fun and perhaps a reference type selection, I will abide.

100% - I can accurately reproduce any musical performance
Please excuse my French but....no way in hell. Nobody here can. Nobody on Earth can. It simply can not happen.

With that said, I did not vote on the poll. No, I am not happy with my system nor am I happy with any other system I have heard when trying to chase the goal in my signature. Real sound is real sound and when one is chasing realistic reproduction of music as well as real, natural sounds? No system is up to the task. Too many variables and that's not even including the recording and all of the variables within that aspect. If you aren't following where I am coming from, that's fine. I will not argue, that's not my style but please do hear me out if you are still reading this...

Compare live music to your system, Compare a lightning strike to your system. Starting from off at a distance, compare a train rolling by at 60 mph to your system. Compare the smack of a tom hat to your system. Compare a real earthquake to your system. Compare an automobile accident to your system. Even if one had a recording that was capable of properly capturing any of these, your system can not faithfully reproduce all of the aspects of the real sound itself. A close approximation perhaps....but not the real thing.

Am I pleased with my system? Of course. The vast majority of WBF members [I'm quite sure] would agree that they are pleased as well after experiencing it. Perhaps some of you heavy hitters here may even say that my rig hits the 95 percentile. Thing is, it doesn't matter. You may walk away with goose bumps. You may walk away with a high appreciation of what I have assembled. You may even not like it at all.

Thing is, I'll never see the finish line. I do not believe any of us will in our lifetimes. I sure am having a blast trying to get there and enjoying/experiencing the music along the way. To me, that's all that matters. Percentages and numbers just get in the way of the enjoyment so with that said, I think I'll throw on an album and enjoy the rest of my audio journey.

Tom
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
3,734
319
565
BiggestLittleCity
There is a very seductive quality to live recordings or studio recordings done in large settings. I personally rate that the highest attribute when rendered accurately. On a well engineered recording it is magical.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
IMHO, IF anyone thinks their system can reproduce the realistic scale of a full orchestra or band in a hall, then again IMHO they are either completely deceiving themselves or just have NOT heard the real life event.
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,361
1,356
1,730
Pleasanton, CA
I get it, this poll is just to sucker punch the audio narcissists and flush them from their MEMEME towers?
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,319
1,429
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Davey must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed this morning :D
 

Phelonious Ponk

New Member
Jun 30, 2010
8,677
23
0
I am very happy with my system - haven't made many changes in the past decade other than adding digital. However, when comparing to say a grand piano, we have two of them in the living room next to the hi-fi room, including a Bosendorfer 225 (7'4" with 92 keys)... If you have a fine pianist playing at full dynamic range, there isn't one system that I have heard (including the Magico Q5/Constellation, Winston Ma's super system, or even our fearless leader's Wilson/Lamm (when he was in the Bay Area) system, that provides the dynamic range of a great real grand piano. We also had 4 members of the San Francisco Symphony and a pianist playing the Schubert Trout Quintet in our living room last Fall. Again, nothing close to being 20 feet away from great live musicians playing real music. I didn't think about imaging, depth, etc, etc - just being in the moment with real live music.

Larry

What Larry said. And you can substitute a small acoustic, jazz or rock ensemble for his classical examples and it doesn't change. I enjoy my system a lot. It doesn't have the bass or the scale of the best big systems I've heard. The very top end is good, but I've heard better. But I played in a large den last night with a basic rock band and in a big LR/DR/kitchen a few weeks ago with unamplified guitars, mandolin, violin, cello and percussion...the best system I've heard doesn't get that. Not even close.

Tim
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
I don't understand how any system can get past 60% based on the order given. Take any instrument--say in this case a sax or even something as "simple" as a guitar--and compare the live and recorded sound. Epic fail on every system that I've heard.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
I don't understand how any system can get past 60% based on the order given. Take any instrument--say in this case a sax or even something as "simple" as a guitar--and compare the live and recorded sound. Epic fail on every system that I've heard.

I agree with Myles!
...
...

Stop that Myles!
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
14
36
Smyrna, GA
I don't understand how any system can get past 60% based on the order given. Take any instrument--say in this case a sax or even something as "simple" as a guitar--and compare the live and recorded sound. Epic fail on every system that I've heard.

Reproduction of acoustic guitar in my system is the only thing I can honestly say close to 100% to the real thing. In fact, when I play Crosby & Nash (vocals +guitar) "Another Stoney Evening" MCH DVD-A on my system, everyone hearing it will tell me it sounds better that they would experience it at the live event....
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,684
10,946
3,515
USA
Personally, I am not sure if I can believe ANYONE has reached 100%, which is accurately reproducing ANY musical performance, like Mahler's 2nd (120+ orchestra, 120+ chorus, organ, soloists) which I am attending next Tuesday here at Symphony Hall.

The poll serves a singular purpose: to show that we not only have different preferences, but we also have different references, and that we don't necessarily evaluate things the same way.

Excellent post, Ack.
 

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