Has any horn speaker overcome the horny coloration?

Robh3606

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Aug 24, 2010
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Sure any in the JBL synthesis line up sound very nice.

Rob:)
 

Ozzy

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Nov 4, 2014
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I have heard Klipsch Fortes with upgraded crossovers that have ZERO traditional horn colorations. Other than the sensitivity and dynamics, you might not even know you were listening to a horn speaker. I also owned a pair of Cornscalas that I upgraded the crossovers. On most music, they were fantastic with no hint of "horniness". Every now and then they could bite you, but not often. And to my ears, Lascalas sound smooth as "butta" on all acoustic music. Just not enough bass to win the day for me.

Oz
 
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bonzo75

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Not really a fan of Avantgarde. The Trios are good but I find the duos to have a real fake bass. Also the Trios while neutral don't have the magic in the midrange that other horns have. I prefer the Cessaro Liszt much more for the midrange, large panel like soundstage, with the TAD compressed drivers easily being the costliest of these drivers by far. The Acapella has good midrange but not Liszt levels, and really poor bass integration. I think the Acapella standard bass driver, is a SEAS CA 25 ACA driver. Costs about $80 (Source: http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?88460-Acapella-High-Violon&p=1788766&viewfull=1#post1788766). I also like the Tune Audio Animas, from Greece, which are different to these horns. They are more raw and feel energetic, so a different presentation.
 

Stump

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Jul 15, 2012
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Im going to put together a Horn Speaker setup based around the WE A22 Horn .Speakers will be active with 3X pair Tube mono blocks for the LM A22 Horn LM Audio 597A field coil tweeter and a pair of mids. All plugged into a DEQX to blend in the sound and get the best out of my narrow room....



https://youtu.be/peQq6BX6jio
 

bonzo75

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That will be a great project. I have heard the WE 22 crossed over to woofers with WE drivers and LM drivers. Also heard the WE 16a like that. And I have compared the GIP, WE, and LM drivers on the 16A. The LM are good to start off with, but for the magic you need to go GIP or WE. Silvercore in Leipzig also makes his own replica and you can compare, at 1/10th the price of GIP, they are quite good (a bit less detail, and a bit less neutral)
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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There are definite sonic advantages to horns, but also many disadvantages. Has any horn speaker overcome the horny discoloration? Are speakers like Avant garde and Acapela, and any others able to take the best of what the design can do while eliminating the negatives of the design choice?

I used to be a ribbon and electrostat guy because I loved the lack of boxy coloration. Odeon horns were the first horns I ever heard that were devoid of horn Coloration and so I bought them and love them to this day. Dynamics and presence without pain.
 

Jazzhead

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Not really a fan of Avantgarde. The Trios are good but I find the duos to have a real fake bass. Also the Trios while neutral don't have the magic in the midrange that other horns have. I prefer the Cessaro Liszt much more for the midrange, large panel like soundstage, with the TAD compressed drivers easily being the costliest of these drivers by far. The Acapella has good midrange but not Liszt levels, and really poor bass integration. I think the Acapella standard bass driver, is a SEAS CA 25 ACA driver. Costs about $80 (Source: http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?88460-Acapella-High-Violon&p=1788766&viewfull=1#post1788766). I also like the Tune Audio Animas, from Greece, which are different to these horns. They are more raw and feel energetic, so a different presentation.

Thought you didn't like the Cessaro ...
 

DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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There must be a million pages on DIYAudio forums on horn coloration. IMO... like everything else there are trade-offs in different horn profiles. Any well designed horn speaker shouldn't have extremely noticeable horn colorations and today most manufacturers offer speakers that don't seem to have this issue. What small "character" the horn adds depending on it's energy storage, materials, surface texture, etc. is usually filtered out like a constant smell after a while. But this isn't limited to horn speakers, the cabinets of direct radiators make their contributions too... the baffle is a kind of waveguide.
 

bonzo75

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kodomo

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I believe, with the correct implementation you can overcome the horn coloration. I have built my own system after listening to a lot of horn systems. Most of them did not fulfil my demands. As the horn based systems are very efficient, the whole thing should be very very carefully designed and implemented. You will hear all the faults inherent of the speaker system and the sources/amplification.

One can not say, do this and you will not have no horn coloration, more like things you better not do. I can tell you basic things like the loading of a horn starts fully about an octave over cutoff of it. The horns are less coloured when used within a three octave range. Midbass horns tend to be large and will dictate what will you use for the rest. If you plan to have passive crossover, and physical time alignment, you will most probably use direct radiating bass solutions below 120-150hz. If you use horns below that, it is impossible to align them without digital, and impossible to align vertically either digital or analog.

Cessaro Gamma II seems to be a good candidate. Hornfabrik also has a modular line, and there is also an appropriate horn system there. The other option is building yourself but it takes a lot of time and effort.

Here is my attempt, and I am very happy with it. As far as I can hear, my system is not plagued by horn coloration. However, it took a lot of time both to build and to adjust. It's not just choices of horns, drivers etc. My passive crossover is built to a very high standard by hornfabrik with crazy vacuum bypass caps and all. There is impedance correction and filtering :) My system is physically time aligned and plays from 18hz to 35khz. Its (+-)3db from 20hz to 20khz. Oh and you also need a relatively big room!
hornlivingroom.jpg
 

DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Here is my attempt, and I am very happy with it. As far as I can hear, my system is not plagued by horn coloration. However, it took a lot of time both to build and to adjust. It's not just choices of horns, drivers etc. My passive crossover is built to a very high standard by hornfabrik with crazy vacuum bypass caps and all. There is impedance correction and filtering :) My system is physically time aligned and plays from 18hz to 35khz. Its (+-)3db from 20hz to 20khz. Oh and you also need a relatively big room!

Nice! :)

I use the same tweeters, what other drivers are you using?
 

MRJAZZ

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Jan 20, 2014
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I believe, with the correct implementation you can overcome the horn coloration. I have built my own system after listening to a lot of horn systems. Most of them did not fulfil my demands. As the horn based systems are very efficient, the whole thing should be very very carefully designed and implemented. You will hear all the faults inherent of the speaker system and the sources/amplification.

One can not say, do this and you will not have no horn coloration, more like things you better not do. I can tell you basic things like the loading of a horn starts fully about an octave over cutoff of it. The horns are less coloured when used within a three octave range. Midbass horns tend to be large and will dictate what will you use for the rest. If you plan to have passive crossover, and physical time alignment, you will most probably use direct radiating bass solutions below 120-150hz. If you use horns below that, it is impossible to align them without digital, and impossible to align vertically either digital or analog.

Cessaro Gamma II seems to be a good candidate. Hornfabrik also has a modular line, and there is also an appropriate horn system there. The other option is building yourself but it takes a lot of time and effort.

Here is my attempt, and I am very happy with it. As far as I can hear, my system is not plagued by horn coloration. However, it took a lot of time both to build and to adjust. It's not just choices of horns, drivers etc. My passive crossover is built to a very high standard by hornfabrik with crazy vacuum bypass caps and all. There is impedance correction and filtering :) My system is physically time aligned and plays from 18hz to 35khz. Its (+-)3db from 20hz to 20khz. Oh and you also need a relatively big room!
View attachment 34644

Interesting design........I see that your furry friend is taking a cat nap on your turntable......at least the dust cover is on -:)

Cheers......
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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Nice! :)

I use the same tweeters, what other drivers are you using?

I use TAD 1601B for bass in br boxes 40hz - 150hz
Supravox 285-2000 (modded) for the midbass horns 150hz - 500hz
Radian 850pb for midrange 500hz -4500hz
Radian 475 beryllium 4500hz -9000hz
Fostex t500amkII 9000hz - 35000hz

I tried BMS and TAD cd's as well and listened to some JBL. I still have the BMS in my volti upgraded Klipschorn system.
 

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
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Interesting design........I see that your furry friend is taking a cat nap on your turntable......at least the dust cover is on -:)

Cheers......


I live with two cats, and one of them loves the turntable. She is good enough that when it is in operation she wouldnt go up on it. Still, I always choose turntables with lids, that was one of the reasons I bought my new Kuzma Stabi M.
 

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