What is the benefit of very expensive DACs?

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Yes ten kilowatts being balanced and isolated with it’s own ground plain it keeps things dead quiet and has enough reserve for amps.
I used a scope the Kiser is very low next asside from a home brew tri point is ground wire isolation that has high freq filter to load the noise
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
432
99
258
I am no expert, but the best Digital Systems that had really good DACS seemed to have one or all of the following:

1. Not so hard and digital sounding - more natural and organic
2. More body
3. Better image in depth as well as width
4. Less Fatiguing
5. Pride of ownership and build quality (not something I am overly fussed about though)
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
Yes ten kilowatts being balanced and isolated with it’s own ground plain it keeps things dead quiet and has enough reserve for amps.
I used a scope the Kiser is very low next asside from a home brew tri point is ground wire isolation that has high freq filter to load the noise

A good way to isolate your audio ground from AC ground. This is of course technically illegal, but you can make it safe by driving another ground rod in the ground and tying the audio system safety ground to this.

This does not do anything to stabilize the voltage however. That is why I use the Plasmatron. It is an AC voltage regulator, not a filter.

If you use the Plasmatron and eliminate all of your sytem ground-loops, I would argue this is a better solution. Lower noise floor.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Steve I did not look into the tech side of the tube
I remember looking into when you posted about. One thing I do know is try your concepts they most always benifit in Audio. You know the network isolator ? Well I have that and have told many.
I still use two shirt blocks of yours too. It’s amazing why many others don’t.
As for regulation I never felt it was needed for a few reasons. One is any type of high current regulation by electronics methods I always felt had its own delays and noise as it regulates as there is no filter for its noise unless it’s gets very complex in ac usesage.
The large core of the ten k handles dips in usesage this I have verified with a scope.
The psu of the amps and it’s caps also handle fluctuations. The krells FBG go further and regulate even the output bus.
Now for a low amp i do get the point.
As for a balanced iso here is two ways to ground it
As it is a centertap secondary the middle tap is grounded but yes on its own water main ground rod tap. The case is grounded the same but it’s is 230 volt so no neutral used that’s where the trouble starts in many types of noise.
It is nec code compliant as well. A norm iso that uses 230 in and 120’put must be isolated by its own ground path to help and it is not nec code compliant.
Ps for what it’s worth you were years ahead of all in digital and I feel never got recognized what you did for all of us. And I thank you for it
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
Steve I did not look into the tech side of the tube
I remember looking into when you posted about. One thing I do know is try your concepts they most always benifit in Audio. You know the network isolator ? Well I have that and have told many.
I still use two shirt blocks of yours too. It’s amazing why many others don’t.
As for regulation I never felt it was needed for a few reasons. One is any type of high current regulation by electronics methods I always felt had its own delays and noise as it regulates as there is no filter for its noise unless it’s gets very complex in ac usesage.
The large core of the ten k handles dips in usesage this I have verified with a scope.
The psu of the amps and it’s caps also handle fluctuations. The krells FBG go further and regulate even the output bus.
Now for a low amp i do get the point.
As for a balanced iso here is two ways to ground it
As it is a centertap secondary the middle tap is grounded but yes on its own water main ground rod tap. The case is grounded the same but it’s is 230 volt so no neutral used that’s where the trouble starts in many types of noise.
It is nec code compliant as well. A norm iso that uses 230 in and 120’put must be isolated by its own ground path to help and it is not nec code compliant.
Ps for what it’s worth you were years ahead of all in digital and I feel never got recognized what you did for all of us. And I thank you for it

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm happy that you are finding the Short-Blocks helpful. I don't make them anymore BTW, because I have moved away from USB to Ethernet. Ethernet has given me the best SQ I have ever had.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Does anyone have experience with the Kondo KSL DAC? Do you know what were the chips used in the MK1 and MK2?
 

Legolas

VIP/Donor
Dec 27, 2015
1,042
387
455
France
Does anyone have experience with the Kondo KSL DAC? Do you know what were the chips used in the MK1 and MK2?

Actually yes I do. I have an audio buddy in Italy who has the Overture Kondo Integrated. He had the Audio Note DAC 5 and I bought his DAC. Then he bought the Kondo KSL DAC. It was matched well to his amp obviously, but he told me it was nothing special and as he had 12k invested in it sold it on, and then bought back the Audio Note DAC 5 of me. I can tell you my Aries Cerat Kassandra beats the Audio Note DAC by a mile, so on this score the KSL is well below the Kassandra, and slightly below the Audio Note DAC 5. All being R-2R tubed and similar topology.

Hope this helps. PM me if you want more, but I would NOT invest much in the KSL unless it is super cheap.....:rolleyes:
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
May I ask you what is your source for the dcs stack ?

The Vivaldi transport - until now the more realistic sound quality I could get from the Vivaldi stack was using SACD, and an amateur built server using Windows 10/Roon with a JCAT network card (double RJ45 connections, one going to the up sampler, another to a Netgear 108 router. I already have the components to build linear battery operated supplies to all the digital network units, including the fiber optic link used to isolate the server from the router, but free audio time for digital is temporary very scarce ... :eek:
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Micro if you wish for you I can build you
Or instruct you pesonnely to build a sever win 2016 blows up ten and don’t worry about drivers or others comments
Let me know. Always willing to help that try.
I can even use any desk or tram viewer as well
It took me a couple of years to get better than my msb steamer sacd player a really well made machine like yours too.
What do you stream from meaning your nas
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Micro if you wish for you I can build you
Or instruct you pesonnely to build a sever win 2016 blows up ten and don’t worry about drivers or others comments
Let me know. Always willing to help that try.
I can even use any desk or tram viewer as well
It took me a couple of years to get better than my msb steamer sacd player a really well made machine like yours too.
What do you stream from meaning your nas

Thanks - I will not forget your kind offer when I will return to this subject. I stream from a Synology DS416 - RAID 1 just in case ...
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Raid 1 ? Is that real raid like mirror ? If yes lose it lol
Also get a cheap LPS for it. It helps but know this as most don’t Linux is less dependent on clean power
I don’t know why but as I build severs both windows and Linux it’s far less important on Linux
Also get yourself an emo systems network iso well worth the 125’it costs
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I'm on a DAC thread, so yes for here in the now.

I spun albums since the sixties, I'll see you in the albums spinning thread.
I promised to myself that I will stick with the topics @ all time, and never ever bifurcate from it.
I will apply auto-control, full cruise, so that I will live for eternity with a clear conscience.

* I'm strictly with physical digital discs and some radio mode listening @ this period of my life. I'm @ my best, top best. It is very tough to disagree with myself.

It's summertime and I enjoy my time, with digital music and analog radio.
That 205 DAC is good, very. And it plays movies in 3D and in 4k, it's the ultimate best universal machine in the whole world. There is no other machine like it.
 
Last edited:

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Damn you would up right. You ok. I only meant disks and there is noting wrong with any choices we make. Heck I own hundreds of cd and sacd s. But I don’t ever use them I point and click and curse of my servers don’t play it lol.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Al, I've read you 100% correctly.

Question: In the summer, with digital gear and DACs, many of us we use remote controls.
{With albums and a turntable and a clean phono preamp, I don't.}
How often do you change the batteries in your remote when it's hot like this (very hot here, 38 Celsius this afternoon where I was).

I ask because that's one thing I noticed just yesterday. All my gear wouldn't turn on, I had to put fresh batteries in my universal Harmony remote control. ...Meaning that last batch of four batteries didn't last more than couple months @ the very best. Usually I can go without replacing them for four months or so.
They are the best rechargeable batteries. I paid a premium for them.
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Do you think I spin vinyl ? I don’t own a TT OR tape. I grew up on vinyl and tape. Oddly I am an old nerd of sorts
A head nagger nerd. So when cds came I left
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Last edited:

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
Does anyone have experience with the Kondo KSL DAC? Do you know what were the chips used in the MK1 and MK2?

I have some experience with the DAC, it is organic sounding and flows well. Not super airy on top but this is true of a lot of NOS DACs. Nice tone through the mids. Not ultra resolution but you don't really feel you miss detail per se. I believe it is using the AD1865N DAC chip like AN UK and Aries Cerat (but they use 16-32 of them depending on the version).
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing