Trinity DAC

Julf

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Nov 27, 2011
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Audiocrack,

While you have stated that you have no financial interest in any of the brands you mention, I can't help noticing that pretty much all your postings are praising or defending some rather high-cost audiophile equipment. I hope you are not offended it I ask you to reiterate that you are purely an enthusiast with no commercial or financial interest in any audio equipment?
 

Elberoth

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And I suppose everybody understands that some ideas/secrets/concepts cannot be disclosed.

I belive Dietmar already said that that they are doing is similar / same as what Accuphase did in their DC-801 DAC.

The main difference (if I understood it correctly) is Accuphase running their converter at 2x DSD, and Trinity at (unspecified) PCM. They also use different DAC chipsets.

Interested parties can check their patents (Dietmar mentioned they have patent for that) - everything should be explained in details there.
 

Julf

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Interested parties can check their patents (Dietmar mentioned they have patent for that) - everything should be explained in details there.

Any links? All the patents I found in Dietmar Bräuer's name were in the optical field, and the only one I found in the name of "trinity" was one on a "Music teaching device" from 1986.
 

Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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If some ideas/secrets/concepts cannot be disclosed, that's definitely OK. "I can't answer your question, because I don't know if you are educated enough" less so.
I, for one, am trying to show understanding and respect (in language 3 of 5), I think all my questions are respectful and factual, and can be answered with simple factual answers.

Well, I am not going to repeat myself and will only say this reaction does not help. As regards your next question, no I am not offended at all. Apparently being able to assemble some top of the bill audio systems raises suspicion but to be absolutely vlear one more time: I am not a dealer nor a distributor but (only) a music enthusiast with no financial interest in any of the brands I am using in my systems.
 

Julf

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Nov 27, 2011
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Well, I am not going to repeat myself and will only say this reaction does not help. As regards your next question, no I am not offended at all. Apparently being able to assemble some top of the bill audio systems raises suspicion but to be absolutely vlear one more time: I am not a dealer nor a distributor but (only) a music enthusiast with no financial interest in any of the brands I am using in my systems.

Thanks - appreciate the understanding and the reinforcement of the message.
 

NorthStar

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Feb 8, 2011
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Well, I am not going to repeat myself and will only say this reaction does not help. As regards your next question, no I am not offended at all. Apparently being able to assemble some top of the bill audio systems raises suspicion but to be absolutely vlear one more time: I am not a dealer nor a distributor but (only) a music enthusiast with no financial interest in any of the brands I am using in my systems.

Thanks; for a moment there ....
 

Audiocrack

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Thanks; for a moment there ....

This has nothing to do with you Northstar, far from it, but after some careful consideration I have decided to withdraw from the WBF forum. Participating in a forum like this should be fun and the only reason why I as a dedicated and enthusiast audiophile joined the WBF forum is to share some of my experiences with other serious and enthusiast audiophiles. However, in this forum as well as the one I started regarding the Tripoint Audio Troy I sense by at least some of our members quite some mistrust and an apparently neglect of respect (not towards me personally but towards Tripoint and Trinity brands I have been talking about lately). Furthermore I refer to the latest statement made by Dietmar regarding the Trinity phonostage. It is really a pity/shame that we were able to push Dietmar from this forum in such a short time. I wish all the good willing audiophiles all the best in their audio/music journey.
 

NorthStar

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You and Dietmar are not made of jello. You got some to say about an audio product you shoot. Me I just comment, ask, question, discuss, just like yourself you would do at another audio forum when someone comes up with a better audio product for less, or more. ...No?

I'm an audio student; teach me what you know. ...But I'm also smart. ...So teach me real good. ...Not just with words of praise, but with concrete proofs that can be demonstrated in a scientific fashion with reports, data, and comments from several real owners.

Right now you just ordered a product (and not a cheap one) that will reach you (according to you) in approximately two months.
So we are asking Dietmar for more info, more feedback, more solid concrete.

Respect!, you have all the respect of this planet; and it is exactly because we respect you that we are (I am) honest with you. ...And with the brands that you like (Tripoint, Trinity).
Now, convince me. ...Talk with us (me); you started it, we want to know more, I want to know more.
So far it sounds real good to me: 16 old Burr-Brown PCM-1704K (highest grade, back then) DACs (96/24), in a very special arrangement, without altering/negating digital filters, and .... seems that DSD is part of the design as well (separate box or inside the same main unit?), and upsampling is also a feature included?
 
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FrantzM

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I talked to Dietmar extensively the last couple of days. Apart from the fact that he is a true gentleman he impressed me more than enough to make the jump: I ordered a Trinity dac. Will post my experiences with the Trinity dac on WBF but patience is needed as it will take approximately two month before the Trinity dac will be delivered to me. For those who are interested in specs, please take a look at Dietmar's website. The Trinity dac specs look very impressive to me although I must confess that I am not a technician. And as I wrote before in my post regarding the Tripoint Audio Troy signature in the end only one thing matters to me: how does a unit sound (in my system). Although the proof of the pudding is in the eating I have high hopes that Dietmar created something very special with his Trinity dac.

This has nothing to do with you Northstar, far from it, but after some careful consideration I have decided to withdraw from the WBF forum. Participating in a forum like this should be fun and the only reason why I as a dedicated and enthusiast audiophile joined the WBF forum is to share some of my experiences with other serious and enthusiast audiophiles. However, in this forum as well as the one I started regarding the Tripoint Audio Troy I sense by at least some of our members quite some mistrust and an apparently neglect of respect (not towards me personally but towards Tripoint and Trinity brands I have been talking about lately). Furthermore I refer to the latest statement made by Dietmar regarding the Trinity phonostage. It is really a pity/shame that we were able to push Dietmar from this forum in such a short time. I wish all the good willing audiophiles all the best in their audio/music journey.

You and Dietmar are not made of jello. You got some to say about an audio product you shoot. Me I just comment, ask, question, discuss, just like yourself you would do at another audio forum when someone comes up with a better audio product for less, or more. ...No?

I'm an audio student; teach me what you know. ...But I'm also smart. ...So teach me real good. ...Not just with words of praise, but with concrete proofs that can be demonstrated in a scientific fashion with reports, data, and comments from several real owners.

Right now you just ordered a product (and not a cheap one) that will reach you (according to you) in approximately two months.
So we are asking Dietmar for more info, more feedback, more solid concrete.

Respect!, you have all the respect of this planet; and it is exactly because we respect you that we are (I am) honest with you. ...And with the brands that you like (Tripoint, Trinity).
Now, convince me. ...Talk with us (me); you started it, we want to know more, I want to know more.
So far it sounds real good to me: 16 old Burr-Brown PCM-1704K (highest grade, back then) DACs (96/24), in a very special arrangement, without altering/negating digital filters, and .... seems that DSD is part of the design as well (separate box or inside the same main unit?), and upsampling is also a feature included?

Hi

OK! I woke up a little early this morning and am reading this from Bob aka NStar?!

I find myself in total agreement with You Bob.. A first (could be a second, or third :) )

What does anyone expect from a product that cost $52,000? Instant Effusive praise with no listening sessions or experiences? if not scrutiny? moreover the designer of said product talk about the uniqueness of its products and hasn't yet made his case. What I have so far seen are standard practices in signal processing and/or similarity with existing products. So we want to be educated and understand the product. It all has been polite.

Now Audiocrack, you can't expect anyone including the brutally wealthy not to question a $52,000 investment based on and I am re-quoting you
Apart from the fact that he is a true gentleman he impressed me more than enough to make the jump: I ordered a Trinity dac.
. We may want to know what did impress you to order a $52,000 DAC sight unseen! or in that case hearing unheard :D (I made up that expression). That is the purpose of a good board: To inquire , to ask questions, sometime tough but always polite. We are not an infomercial board. We are a discussion forum and we discuss, we ask questions, we learn and we enjoy music too and other stuff like cooking, kitchen appliances, cameras, cars, watches, sports and from time to time and grudgingly .... Politics :D.

So stay around and prove your case. We are literally all ears.
 

Elberoth

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I'm with Frantz. However you look at it - $52,000 price tag is exorbitant. Even more so, when you realise, that 50% of the procduct cost is often the box it is housed in. In other words - if you buy a $30k Vivaldi DAC, you pay 15k for the box and $15k for the electronics.

Trinity's box is nothing really special. It looks like a $3-4k product from the outside. So I think it is natural, when a '$4k looking' product sells for $52,000, to ask questions what makes it that special.

So far we didn't learn much from Dietmar, apart from the fact that it uses 16 BB DACs (those are not 24/96 limited, as sugested in this thread, BTW) and it the arrangement is very similar to what Accuphase was doing in their 8 years old, and now discountinued DC-801 DAC.

If there are other things that make it really special - I would like to know. Maybe the price is not as unreasonable as it seems and the DAC is worth every penny. In which case, there could be at least a dosen of people on this forum interested in this DAC.
 

Julf

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Nov 27, 2011
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Trinity's box is nothing really special.

Maybe you have to consider the possibility that it is really special, but you don't understand it, because you are confused and don't have the right kind of engineering degree. "Ordinary" PhDs don't count.

If there are other things that make it really special - I would like to know.

Careful, that statement might be construed as a sign of mistrust and neglect of respect. Surely a $52,000 box requires a lot of respect?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I'm with Frantz. However you look at it - $52,000 price tag is exorbitant. Even more so, when you realise, that 50% of the procduct cost is often the box it is housed in. In other words - if you buy a $30k Vivaldi DAC, you pay 15k for the box and $15k for the electronics.

Trinity's box is nothing really special. It looks like a $3-4k product from the outside. So I think it is natural, when a '$4k looking' product sells for $52,000, to ask questions what makes it that special.

So far we didn't learn much from Dietmar, apart from the fact that it uses 16 BB DACs (those are not 24/96 limited, as sugested in this thread, BTW) and it the arrangement is very similar to what Accuphase was doing in their 8 years old, and now discountinued DC-801 DAC.

If there are other things that make it really special - I would like to know. Maybe the price is not as unreasonable as it seems and the DAC is worth every penny. In which case, there could be at least a dosen of people on this forum interested in this DAC.

It was I who asked Dietmar the MSRP only because he commented that it was expensive

When I saw the price I decided not to comment further. Perhaps his DAC is better than hen's teeth but for $52K one could build a terrific audio system and have money left over but perhaps it is wonderful and worth every penny. As for buying a piece of gear because the owner sounds honest and forthright is IMO a noble gesture inasmuch as the DAC has not even been heard by the purchaser is what I call a blind leap of faith
 

rockitman

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for a 1 box solution, $52K seems high. This new DAC looks nothing like the GTE (3 chassis) Trinity dac which seemed to have greater value looking from the outside, in. I have zero listening experience with either one, however. I was not impressed by the phono stage even though I haven't heard it. It does not have enough flexibility for loading outside of getting a step up transformer. Balanced in's for phono are not necessarily better than single ended inputs when we talk tonearm cables.
 

mep

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Man, this is a tough crowd. In this land of $100k+ amplfiiers, $100k+ speakers, $50k+ preamps, $50k+ speaker cables and $10k+ power cords, why does anyone think that $52k is "unreasonable" for a DAC?? I think it fits right in with the rest of that market place as long as it looks the part.
 

FrantzM

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Man, this is a tough crowd. In this land of $100k+ amplfiiers, $100k+ speakers, $50k+ preamps, $50k+ speaker cables and $10k+ power cords, why does anyone think that $52k is "unreasonable" for a DAC?? I think it fits right in with the rest of that market place as long as it looks the part.

mep

I think some are wising up... It is to me clear that expensive is not necessarily better and many seem to be rallying to this point of view. I have no qualm with a product that truly elevate the SOTA and frankly I have no beef with the Trinity DAC. I haven't heard it. I do however have problems with very expensive digital. The field is moving too fast to plunk 50 Grand on a DAC... It is the more stupendous when one does it without proper audition but ... If indeed this DAC is that good ... fine. It faces IMO stiff competition from much less murderously priced DACs such as the Berkeley DAC 2 (IMHO one of the best around, regardless of price) , the Viola, The Playback Designs MPD5 to name those few ...

It is becoming clear for many that a total of $50K spent wisely, that is: on good room treatments, speakers , electronics and subs will challenge million dollars systems. I stand by this statement very quietly. It took me some time to arrive there having in a previous life spent ungodly amount on my systems but I am there now and am very comfortable with that notion. The world of High End Audio is not about to espouse it. It needs its many boxes, its shiny faceplates, fat cables, its specialty electrical outlets, etc. Fortunately,faithful, enjoyable and lifelike, reproduction of music doesn't require all that.
 

mep

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Frantz-I hear ya. However, some people are so well-heeled that they only wear a pair of shoes one time and they are drawn to exclusivity by price like a moth to a flame.
 

microstrip

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(...) It is becoming clear for many that a total of $50K spent wisely, that is: on good room treatments, speakers , electronics and subs will challenge million dollars systems. I stand by this statement very quietly. It took me some time to arrive there having in a previous life spent ungodly amount on my systems but I am there now and am very comfortable with that notion. The world of High End Audio is not about to espouse it. It needs its many boxes, its shiny faceplates, fat cables, its specialty electrical outlets, etc. Fortunately,faithful, enjoyable and lifelike, reproduction of music doesn't require all that.

Frantz,

It is a very nice statement, I would love to see it proved. Unhappily the many who love presenting their arguments do not expose those wonderful systems in forums, including measurements, technical details and listening impressions.

I also believe that you should optimize rather than spending unwisely, but I do not believe in miracles. I have listened to a few systems costing between 200k and half million and know what they were able to do. I (and I think most of WBF readers) will wait eagerly for your future reports.
 

FrantzM

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Frantz,

It is a very nice statement, I would love to see it proved. Unhappily the many who love presenting their arguments do not expose those wonderful systems in forums, including measurements, technical details and listening impressions.

I also believe that you should optimize rather than spending unwisely, but I do not believe in miracles. I have listened to a few systems costing between 200k and half million and know what they were able to do. I (and I think most of WBF readers) will wait eagerly for your future reports.

microstrip


What else is new? We disagree.
 

microstrip

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Man, this is a tough crowd. In this land of $100k+ amplfiiers, $100k+ speakers, $50k+ preamps, $50k+ speaker cables and $10k+ power cords, why does anyone think that $52k is "unreasonable" for a DAC?? I think it fits right in with the rest of that market place as long as it looks the part.

I agree with you. At this point you are paying for exceptional performance - why should the source be the poor element of the family? But people should carry your research to separate those having a performance that is worth this high price in the system from those that are simple statutory parts.
 

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