Trinity DAC

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 5, 2013
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Hearing is the ultimate judge. There is no one to argue that your optimized server is sub par. When I say general purpose, the hardware and software are not designed to perform audio alone. All your addition of LPS and software optimization try to remove all unnecessarily processes and noises.

You would be surprised to learn that a lot of DACs have poor USB implementation. USB is not penicillin. Poor USB implementation allows server ground noises leaked to the DACs. I think USB Regen try to address this issue. Actually, I think Adam reports USB Regen provides improvement to his Trinity DAC.

My suggestion just provides alternative data point for you to consider in your CAS journey.
 

anders

New Member
Sep 9, 2015
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Mike have you tried converting DSD to PCM and playing it on the Trinity?

I do this with my Audio Note DAC since it is multibit/PCM only. Many audiophiles will look down on this, but the sound I get (assuming good classical recording) is pin me to the seat, ignore the texts/calls good.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Mike have you tried converting DSD to PCM and playing it on the Trinity?

there are lots of hirez PCM files i have that were native dsd recordings. and where i have those same recordings in dsd and 192/24. i have maybe 20 of those from Channel Classics. they sound better through my dsd dac, the MPS-5. will some sort of 3rd party software do a better dsd to pcm conversion than the pro gear of Channel Classics? i doubt it.

I do this with my Audio Note DAC since it is multibit/PCM only. Many audiophiles will look down on this, but the sound I get (assuming good classical recording) is pin me to the seat, ignore the texts/calls good.

I have been an SACD and dsd disciple/fanboy/believer since the year 2000. i have many terabytes of dsd and 2xdsd on my server, as well as a pure dsd dac, the Playback Designs MPS-5. I've had this dac for 9 years now. comparing dsd and 2xdsd on the MPS-5 to pcm, redbook and hirez, on the Trinity, mostly either dac seems to sound best depending on the native format of the recording. at this point my view is provisional, as my hirez PCM library is growing daily and so any conclusions are still being formed.

how i expect this to play out is that PCM will be optimal on a dac such as the Trinity (or your Audionote) where it is uncompromised. dsd, 2xdsd, and quad dsd will sound best thru an uncompromised dsd dac. right now the question is whether my uncompromised dsd dac will remain the MPS-5 or change to another one.

conversions from one native format to another format are not going to be optimal. not to say that they won't sound very good. how important is being optimal on both pcm and dsd? that is for each person to decide. i have found the more math applied to an audio signal the farther from the ideal it becomes.

maybe there is a dac out there that gets it all-the-way right for both PCM and dsd. my mind is open to the possibility.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Mike have you tried converting DSD to PCM and playing it on the Trinity?

I do this with my Audio Note DAC since it is multibit/PCM only. Many audiophiles will look down on this, but the sound I get (assuming good classical recording) is pin me to the seat, ignore the texts/calls good.

i have 20 or so hirez PCM (192/24) files from Channel Classics that started life as native dsd recordings where i have those same files in dsd. every time they sound better played back in native dsd thru my MPS-5 than played back in 192/24 through the Trinity. hard for me to imagine that some 3rd party software will do a better job of converting those dsd files to pcm than the pro gear Channel Classic uses.

I have been an SACD and dsd disciple/fanboy/believer since the year 2000. i have many terabytes of dsd and 2xdsd on my server, as well as a pure dsd dac, the Playback Designs MPS-5. I've had this dac for 9 years now. comparing dsd and 2xdsd on the MPS-5 to pcm, redbook and hirez, on the Trinity, mostly either dac seems to sound best depending on the native format of the recording. at this point my view is provisional, as my hirez PCM library is growing daily and so any conclusions are still being formed.

how i expect this to play out is that PCM will be optimal on a dac such as the Trinity (or your Audionote) where it is uncompromised. dsd, 2xdsd, and quad dsd will sound best thru an uncompromised dsd dac. right now the question is whether my uncompromised dsd dac will remain the MPS-5 or change to another one.

be clear i'm not commenting on the very best sounding format; only on what is the ideal way for optimizing particular recordings.

conversions from one native format to another format are not going to be optimal. not to say that they won't sound very good. how important is being optimal on both pcm and dsd? that is for each person to decide.

maybe there is a dac out there that gets it all-the-way right for both PCM and dsd. my mind is open to the possibility. but i am skeptical.

it also seems that getting PCM all-the-way right is the harder thing to pull off as that format comes with some artifacts that take considerable effort/investment to deal with.
 
Last edited:

anders

New Member
Sep 9, 2015
39
0
0
Connecticut
This makes a great deal of sense, thanks for the detailed reply.

My thought process when I chose the AN 4.1; looking for a DAC that could optimize one format since the vast majority of my collection was CD.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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This makes a great deal of sense, thanks for the detailed reply.

My thought process when I chose the AN 4.1; looking for a DAC that could optimize one format since the vast majority of my collection was CD.

I am the same...i told myself years ago i would focus all my efforts on 1 source and not split my limited resources across multiple formats. The music collection has thus been CDs and the Zanden has been my player of choice. Enjoy your AN 4.1! I have read and heard many great things about it.
 

Fidach Lad

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2015
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Fidach
This makes a great deal of sense, thanks for the detailed reply.

My thought process when I chose the AN 4.1; looking for a DAC that could optimize one format since the vast majority of my collection was CD.

Peter Qvortrup told me that r2r ladder dacs cost about 1/2 the price of his existing models. They should be coming out pretty soon. AN(UK) is working from the top level down on producing them. He says the tecnology sounds a lot better than his current technology.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Peter Qvortrup told me that r2r ladder dacs cost about 1/2 the price of his existing models. They should be coming out pretty soon. AN(UK) is working from the top level down on producing them. He says the tecnology sounds a lot better than his current technology.

Does this mean he is 'upgrading' his GBP200K (USD$330K) Audio Note DAC 5th Element/CDT6 Transport?
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I don't think so, just the DACs. He didn't mention anything about the transports, so I could be wrong.

Thanks...will be interesting to see what he comes up with...Martin Colloms has ranked the Audio Note DAC 5th Element [markedly] above all others on HiFi Critic...and i think that includes the Scarlatti if not the Vivaldi, Metrum Octave, MSB, etc
 

MRJAZZ

Industry Expert
Jan 20, 2014
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Thanks...will be interesting to see what he comes up with...Martin Colloms has ranked the Audio Note DAC 5th Element [markedly] above all others on HiFi Critic...and i think that includes the Scarlatti if not the Vivaldi, Metrum Octave, MSB, etc

Has he heard the TRINITY ?
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Thanks...will be interesting to see what he comes up with...Martin Colloms has ranked the Audio Note DAC 5th Element [markedly] above all others on HiFi Critic...and i think that includes the Scarlatti if not the Vivaldi, Metrum Octave, MSB, etc

since it's a Trinity thread, I wonder if Mr. Colloms has heard the Trinity dac? has he ever mentioned that he did?

I suspect I would prefer my Trinity to the big bad AN.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Thanks...will be interesting to see what he comes up with...Martin Colloms has ranked the Audio Note DAC 5th Element [markedly] above all others on HiFi Critic...and i think that includes the Scarlatti if not the Vivaldi, Metrum Octave, MSB, etc

Martin Colloms is a good professional reviewer, he manages to describe components sound fairly well, although you have to read his appreciation between the lines. But unfortunately, IMHO his ranking system is absurd and just reflects his strict preference.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Gents,

I am not aware that MC has heard the Trinity...it is not on his review or website that i have seen the last time i checked not that long ago.

Micro - i hear you, but nevertheless, the actual review itself was so articulated in regards to the AN 5th Elements superiority...well, what can i say, he has only been that categorical a few times and each time i have agreed. Krell FPB650, Wilson X1/Grand Slamm and [to a lesser extent] the SF Guarneri.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Peter Qvortrup told me that r2r ladder dacs cost about 1/2 the price of his existing models. They should be coming out pretty soon. AN(UK) is working from the top level down on producing them. He says the tecnology sounds a lot better than his current technology.

i'll point out that not all r2r ladder dacs are created equal or cost the same. it's not a generic 'commodity'.

interesting that Martin Colloms has anointed this expensive AN 5TH Element as 'above all others'; yet Peter Qvortrup says the new ladder dacs are 'a lot better than his current technology'.

hummmmmmm?

either Martin or Peter do not have things quite right.

if ladder dacs are better; then I guess we have to find the best one of those.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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(...) Micro - i hear you, but nevertheless, the actual review itself was so articulated in regards to the AN 5th Elements superiority...well, what can i say, he has only been that categorical a few times and each time i have agreed. Krell FPB650, Wilson X1/Grand Slamm and [to a lesser extent] the SF Guarneri.

Lloyd,

Did you listen to an AN 5th Elements? Although I usually appreciate MC reviews I found this one particularly poor in terms of communication - he seemed to be hypnotized by the perceived quality of the AN 5th and forgot to give us references to recordings or specific aspects of its performance. IMHO a review must be explanatory and this one was just filled with general superlatives. Considering that his review was carried with the Sophia3 - a speaker who has been resident for a long time in my upstairs living room and still looking for a new owner, if I did not have my reserve about this review I would probably sell everything else, sell the car and the house and buy an AN 5th. :)

But yes, it would be great to have more opinions on the AN 5th - in a separate thread, this is a Trinity DAC thread.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Lloyd,

Did you listen to an AN 5th Elements? Although I usually appreciate MC reviews I found this one particularly poor in terms of communication - he seemed to be hypnotized by the perceived quality of the AN 5th and forgot to give us references to recordings or specific aspects of its performance. IMHO a review must be explanatory and this one was just filled with general superlatives. Considering that his review was carried with the Sophia3 - a speaker who has been resident for a long time in my upstairs living room and still looking for a new owner, if I did not have my reserve about this review I would probably sell everything else, sell the car and the house and buy an AN 5th. :)

But yes, it would be great to have more opinions on the AN 5th - in a separate thread, this is a Trinity DAC thread.

Hi Micro,

I have never had the opportunity to hear the AN 5th Element DAC, and only wish to do so just because of his 'gushing review' which i have rarely seen from MC (again with the exception of the Krell FPB 650 and the Wilson X1/Grand Slamm where (for right or wrong), i agreed with him that these products set a new standard in their day. He did NOT say that about the SF Guarneri, but i did find his effusive comments to agree with my own personal views.

And so when i read his 'this is a new standard again in redbook' comments about the AN DAC 5th Element...i found myself making sure to hear it at some point.

BTW, had a minor heartbreak on an opportunity yesterday...will PM you just to commiserate!
 

dctom

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2015
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www.davidcthomas.co.uk
Hi Gents,

I am not aware that MC has heard the Trinity...it is not on his review or website that i have seen the last time i checked not that long ago.

Micro - i hear you, but nevertheless, the actual review itself was so articulated in regards to the AN 5th Elements superiority...well, what can i say, he has only been that categorical a few times and each time i have agreed. Krell FPB650, Wilson X1/Grand Slamm and [to a lesser extent] the SF Guarneri.

I have only just seen this thread and so investigated the Martin Colloms review - link below;

http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/audionote_cdt6-dac_5_complete.pdf

He concludes;
"Here is a CD player which really can give high end analogue a run for its money."
Presumably this is not based solely on his Linn experience.

I quote another paragraph below
"Nevertheless with this DAC my own varied digital sources have never sounded better, especially the network music server, rendering S/PDIF via a Naim UnitiServe. The original disc loaded in the CDT-Six disc drive was clearly better, with superior control of residual grain, better clarity, bass depth and rhythm. "

This has been my experience with digital, the original disc sounds better than the ripped file played through my laptops. PC and Mac both with SSD and J river. It seems posters on this thread get as good or better SQ, than disc playback, when using a server.

I use a Playback MPS 5 into a Dartzeel pre, they work very well together via their dedicated 50 ohm link. The trinity and AN DACs are beyond my means! however any suggestions on improving on my laptop as a source? I see the CAPS v4 mentioned.
 

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