Entreq Tellus grounding

spiritofmusic

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Mike, I'm chuffed to think I've been partly instrumental in getting you to consider Entreq. It would be great to hear some independent reports from listeners such as y'self and Christian, rather than the "usual suspects" (me, Lloyd, Barry, Guillame etc) banging on about things.
As Lloyd said, it will be fascinating to see if an uber sorted out system such as yours can go up another notch or two.
Just a couple of things - allow things to settle in, do NOT apply any critical thinking straight away - and the change if it is to be had is of a different order than a component or even cable change. It's more a kind of ethereal lifting of haze/hash that you won't be aware of now, but will surely be aware of it's absence after. It just adds to lack of cognitive dissonance, this sifting out of pollution allowing the full message of the music to come thru. Music will just wash over you, more relaxed yet more pertinent at the same time. Pure magic!
Despite Troy's clams to the contrary, Entreq grounding works v.well w/balanced power - in my system my Westwick 8kVA balanced transformer "transformed" the low end esp providing an unwavering solidity to the sound, 24/7, a foundation of confidence that Entreq grounding performs it's magic on, the latter opening up the soundstage, and removing layer upon layer of "gloop" (this is a technical word, don't you know? :rolleyes:). In a nutshell/summary, balanced power maxxes macrodynamics, grounding maxxes microdynamics.
Re use of single box/single cable, the only issue I have w/this is that it restricts the ability to use an Atlantis add on box, since this can only take ONE cable (usu from a S. Tellus box), and you may be running FOUR ground boxes. My suggestion when it comes to final purchase if you're a convert would be to run a S. Tellus adj to your main equipment rack to ground the Dart pre/Playback cdp-dac/reel to reel, and then experiment w/poss add on Atlantis box, and Apollo to Atlantis ground leads at a future date. Re your spkrs w/powered sub towers and Dart monos, I would run another S. Tellus to be placed centrally, and consider another Atlantis. But I guess S. Minimus' would be fine (4 in total, 2 sub towers + 2 Dart monos), I believe Entreq do a cheaper Minimus Atlantis, and I guess you could run 4 S. Minimus'/4 Minimus Atlantis'. And then there is the possibility of Cleanus (but that's a discussion for another day, Guillame is the expert on that here on this forum).
 

Barry2013

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Thanks Mike.
It really will be interesting to see how the Entreq silver Minimus work in your system and look forward to hearing your results.
 

spiritofmusic

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Mike, I've just spoken to Fraser, the UK rep for Entreq (who has been instrumental in getting the US Stillpoints guys to deal Entreq), and he's adamant the single box-single cable route is not the best way. He really feels for the level of refinement in your system you need to go for a S. Tellus/Atlantis add-on box/Atlantis cables, allowing to to ground up to 7 components. I'm firmly of the opinion that a single S. Minimus to a single component like your Dart preamp would be sufficient to gauge the potential effects of grounding, and whether it's for you, but I'm sure to get the best poss idea of Entreq, Fraser is right to consider going large.
So you could stick w/your S. Minimus expt and try it on components one at a time (my bet is the best would be to ground the pre), and if this floats your boat, stick there or max out w/S. Tellus/Atlantis box/Atlantis leads, one set for your equipment rack (non-power components), and/or one set for your powered components (Dart monos/EA sub towers).
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike, I've just spoken to Fraser, the UK rep for Entreq (who has been instrumental in getting the US Stillpoints guys to deal Entreq), and he's adamant the single box-single cable route is not the best way. He really feels for the level of refinement in your system you need to go for a S. Tellus/Atlantis add-on box/Atlantis cables, allowing to to ground up to 7 components. I'm firmly of the opinion that a single S. Minimus to a single component like your Dart preamp would be sufficient to gauge the potential effects of grounding, and whether it's for you, but I'm sure to get the best poss idea of Entreq, Fraser is right to consider going large.
So you could stick w/your S. Minimus expt and try it on components one at a time (my bet is the best would be to ground the pre), and if this floats your boat, stick there or max out w/S. Tellus/Atlantis box/Atlantis leads, one set for your equipment rack (non-power components), and/or one set for your powered components (Dart monos/EA sub towers).

at this point my mind is open to whatever.

first step is simply to dive in, plug them and in and just enjoy the system for awhile and see where that takes me. over and over in feedback on these products it's mentioned that it takes a bit of time for the magic to immerge......so I will be patient and let it come to me.

it's easy enough to add a Silver Tellus into the mix and move the Silver Minimus units around when we get to that. my system is quite spread out and I really don't want long cables everywhere.

thanks again for your energy and efforts with this product.
 

spiritofmusic

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That's the spirit Mike. I do believe the "taster" of S. Minimus on pre will set the tone for what you might get/not get from trying grounding. Lloyd, Barry and Guillame are the go-to guys for effects of maxxing out w/ S.Tellus/Atlantis. Me? I'm happy to stick w/S.Tellus and 8 Apollo ground leads, I don't feel the need to go too OCD w/all this, esp since my prev redundant Burmester 948 conditioner has sprung to life, and really synergises w/the whole balanced power/grounding situation I've got into.
 

Barry2013

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Mike, I've just spoken to Fraser, the UK rep for Entreq (who has been instrumental in getting the US Stillpoints guys to deal Entreq), and he's adamant the single box-single cable route is not the best way. He really feels for the level of refinement in your system you need to go for a S. Tellus/Atlantis add-on box/Atlantis cables, allowing to to ground up to 7 components. I'm firmly of the opinion that a single S. Minimus to a single component like your Dart preamp would be sufficient to gauge the potential effects of grounding, and whether it's for you, but I'm sure to get the best poss idea of Entreq, Fraser is right to consider going large.
So you could stick w/your S. Minimus expt and try it on components one at a time (my bet is the best would be to ground the pre), and if this floats your boat, stick there or max out w/S. Tellus/Atlantis box/Atlantis leads, one set for your equipment rack (non-power components), and/or one set for your powered components (Dart monos/EA sub towers).

Well done Mark.
I was having increasing doubts about the silver Minimus approach. They just don't seem to have the capacity that you get with a silver Tellus with or without an Atlantis, although I can see that they may offer some greater flexibility for siting.
My first experience was with a Minimus and the effect was instant on my system, though it only had stock grounding at that stage. It was enough.however, to set me on the Entreq path now comprising 2 silver Tellus, an Atlantis, and a silver Minimus for the speaker cables and it is now hugely better than it was. I did start with a base Tellus but would advise anybody else to go straight to the silver Tellus which is far more effective and cost effective.
It will be interesting to read how the 3 silver Minimus work in Mike's system. My experience happily was positive but I would be surprised if the silver Tellus/Atlantis approach was not to prove more effective in Mike's system at a later stage should he choose to go there and I would certainly join you in encouraging him to do so.
 

Barry2013

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How are the boxes connected to speakers ? via a spade connect to the negative side of the speaker connectors ?

A good question to which I do not have a definitive answer as I use Entreq speaker cables which have a separate drain and plug in earth cable with spade termination for connection to the ground box, Silver Minimus in my case.
If the speakers are passive your suggested approach seems sensible but if they were active I imagine the best would be to earth the speaker amps using any spare RCA or balanced sockets, or failing that a spade connect.
 

spiritofmusic

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Mike's EA spkrs are 2 pairs of towers I believe, one pair powered subs (8 x 15" total?). My guess is that Mike should ground the sub towers first - but he should heed the advice of the Entreq distributor, they'll be there w/him on his journey. I'm not sure his EA spkr cables themselves can be grounded, and since Entreq wks on the signal plane, the subs make most sense to be grounded.
I'm soon to receive upgraded sub bass modules w/Lundahl transformers for my Zu Def4s, custom fitted w/ground posts for this very purpose, and so will be adding a couple of Apollos to my spkrs (taking my total to 8 - pre/phono/cdp/2x pre/2x monos/2x subs).
Still contend that grounding the pre is the best place to start, but again following dealer advice always.
 
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allvinyl

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Entreq Grounding Boxes Attached to Speakers

How are the boxes connected to speakers ? via a spade connect to the negative side of the speaker connectors ?

The Entreq grounding boxes should never be attached to either of the speaker output terminals of an amplifier.

The Entreq grounding boxes should never be attached to either of the speaker's input terminals.

IF the speaker cable has been designed with grounding terminations you may attach the Entreq grounding boxes to those terminations.


Also to note, in general:
- The higher the system's resolving capabilities the more responsive the system will be to the larger grounding boxes, (Silver Tellus and Atlantis Tellus) in the Entreq line.
- The lower the noise floor the more improvement one will hear if the system can deliver it.
- Independent of cost, the different grounding box cables in the Entreq line will offer different results so experimentation with the different cables is encouraged in order to find best performance.


John
 

Barry2013

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The Entreq grounding boxes should never be attached to either of the speaker output terminals of an amplifier.

The Entreq grounding boxes should never be attached to either of the speaker's input terminals.

IF the speaker cable has been designed with grounding terminations you may attach the Entreq grounding boxes to those terminations.


Also to note, in general:
- The higher the system's resolving capabilities the more responsive the system will be to the larger grounding boxes, (Silver Tellus and Atlantis Tellus) in the Entreq line.
- The lower the noise floor the more improvement one will hear if the system can deliver it.
- Independent of cost, the different grounding box cables in the Entreq line will offer different results so experimentation with the different cables is encouraged in order to find best performance.


John

Thanks for clearing that up John.
Much appreciated and a valuable lesson in the dangers of trying to answer a valid question when you cannot provide a definitive answer!
So if you want to ground your speakers with an Entreq box the way to do it is with Entreq speaker cables or, and I am not sure if there are any others, with another brand with built in earth connections.
The former certainly works very well in my system.
 

rockitman

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Thanks for clearing that up John.
Much appreciated and a valuable lesson in the dangers of trying to answer a valid question when you cannot provide a definitive answer!
So if you want to ground your speakers with an Entreq box the way to do it is with Entreq speaker cables or, and I am not sure if there are any others, with another brand with built in earth connections.
The former certainly works very well in my system.

One less Box for me to worry about. The MIT MAX SHD is going nowhere.
 

Barry2013

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Yes entirely understandable and should not in anyway detract from the benefits of using the boxes and earth cables on other parts of the system.
 

spiritofmusic

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Christian and Mike, I really do think grounding the spkrs is not the most logical way fwd esp w/the fact that there are risks involved. Much more straightfwd and more likely to demonstrate the benefits of Entreq grounding, is applying it to the preamp, power amp/s and/or source components. IMHO, since everything routes thru the pre, and the pre is in control of things downstream it makes sense to ground the pre and maybe gain the first positive experience of the concept.
My initial experience of grounding my old Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage was wholly disappointing compared to the phenomenal change wrought by grounding my old Hovland HP200 (although subsequently, grounding my Soundsmith Straingauge SG200 energizer box has been totally positive - so in all systems, YMMV), and had I grounded the phono first I would not have gone on.
So, get the US dealer to help w/experimenting, but seriously consider going grounded pre first. Just my two cents.
 

rockitman

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Pre it will be. I hope it's good for my allnic tube phono too. Should I run 2 grounds Per component IE:signal via rca and chassis via spade to chassis ?
 

Mike Lavigne

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I appreciate all the feedback.

I got with my dealer this afternoon and changed my order to 1 Silver Tellus Box, 1 Ertha Atlantis RCA cable for my dart pre, and 1 Ertha Apollo RCA cable for my Playback Designs. I cancelled the 3 Silver Minimus boxes and the 2 Apollo spade cables.

a place to start and we'll go from there.

my dealer is ordering other cables and possibly a second Silver Tellus box we will also experiment with.

we spoke about whether to even try to hook anything up to my dart monos but decided that we should probably stay far away from that. I'm assuming that the grounds for dart mono's unused inputs are not connected when they are not selected......as I use the 'Zeel' input.
 

rockitman

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I like your careful and methodical approach Mike. You will be up and running before I will be. Your opinion holds a lot of weight not to add any pressure ...;)
 

Mike Lavigne

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I like your careful and methodical approach Mike. You will be up and running before I will be. Your opinion holds a lot of weight not to add any pressure ...;)

somehow my wife does not share your appreciation of my thinking. "you spent how much on more stuff?!#/@#&*" "and it is suppose to do what?%#@!!!#"

she is wonderful.

not to rain on anyone's parade, but I'm prepared to not hear any improvement.....although I expect that not to be the case. I do think that the battery powered dart pre and proprietarily linked dart monos (with the Equi=tech) might not yield any 'ground' (pun intended) for improvement. they are already so ridiculously quiet and with the 'zeel' connections their imagining and presence is off the charts. the interface is pretty amazing.

but until you try, you will just never know. need to cross this off the list, or hear what it does. enough standing around thrashing about.

and why stop here?

if it does take things further, I might just try the Tripoint next before I take the Entreq to a higher point. now that I'm off the sideline the game is on. like Spirit and Barry say, the big step with the Entreq is the first one with the pre.....the rest is simply smaller degrees of better.

as one approach is 'signal ground', the other 'power grid ground', they ought to yield additive benefits together. but until you try them one then the other, and then together, you will never know what is doing what. I'm not sure how one system's reactions to either or both relates to how they might both work in another system.

what will my wife say then?
 
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Audiocrack

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Given the quality of your audio system I think it is (indeed) wise to listen to any of the Tripoint devices. I am pretty sure you will be quite amazed, including what they will do for your Dartzeel preamp and power amps.
 

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