Entreq Tellus grounding

rockitman · Sep 29, 2014

LL21 said:
The Atlantis connects to the Silver Tellus grounding box to enhance its material capacity. Basically as I understand Entreq did not wish to abandon their existing Silver Tellus customers...so rather than create a whole new grounding box 2x as big...they create an add-on box to double the capacity of the original one.

That makes sense. The Entreq monster has made it to US shores. Hopefully my stillpoints dealer will be getting a silver tellus or two demo unit(s) in the near future. If he gets only one, I wonder where it make the most difference...source components or power amps ? Seems to me the source is where I should try it first.

Barry2013 · Sep 29, 2014

rockitman said:
That makes sense. The Entreq monster has made it to US shores. Hopefully my stillpoints dealer will be getting a silver tellus or two demo unit(s) in the near future. If he gets only one, I wonder where it make the most difference...source components or power amps ? Seems to me the source is where I should try it first.

I started with sources but it would be worth experimenting to see which works best in your system

spiritofmusic · Sep 29, 2014

Christian, in my system at any rate, the biggest bang for buck was the first idea tried, viz. connecting solely the preamp to the S. Tellus via a spade-rca Apollo. Everything else has been evolution/refinement, but that first grounding experience was truly revolutionary. In fact I'd have been a happy man sticking w/just grounding the preamp if I had to stick there.
This does make sense since the whole system is routed via the preamp, so the effects of grounding it are shared thruout the whole rig.
Additionally unlike Troy, Entreq works at the signal plane, so it's designed to be installed at spare output/input jacks, NOT into chassis screws.

rockitman · Sep 29, 2014

spiritofmusic said:
Christian, in my system at any rate, the biggest bang for buck was the first idea tried, viz. connecting solely the preamp to the S. Tellus via a spade-rca Apollo. Everything else has been evolution/refinement, but that first grounding experience was truly revolutionary. In fact I'd have been a happy man sticking w/just grounding the preamp if I had to stick there.
This does make sense since the whole system is routed via the preamp, so the effects of grounding it are shared thruout the whole rig.
Additionally unlike Troy, Entreq works at the signal plane, so it's designed to be installed at spare output/input jacks, NOT into chassis screws.

Signal ground makes sense

If I was tripoint I would be scared in the us. Their pricing strategy may work for Asia...in the us it has not especially if entreq delivers. There is a bigger market for a $5000 grounding solution vs a $70,000 solution.

Frank750 · Sep 29, 2014

rockitman said:
Signal ground makes sense

If I was tripoint I would be scared in the us. Their pricing strategy may work for Asia...in the us it has not especially if entreq delivers. There is a bigger market for a $5000 grounding solution vs a $70,000 solution.

The Tri point Troy SE with an upgraded power cord and an upgraded grounding cable or 2 and a few standard cables is about $15k. I don't claim to have heard either Tri point or Entreq but take a look at the Tri point website, no comparison in build quality.

spiritofmusic · Sep 29, 2014

Frank, a major advantage that Entreq has is it's upgradeability ie the ability to start at the (relatively) affordable (eg S. Tellus and single Apollo c$3.5k v all-in one Troy $15k). My configuration of S. Tellus and 5 Apollos is still "only" $7k, ie half cost of entry Troy all-in one. We've all upgraded our main systems in steps, it make's sense for extensive expenditure in grounding to have the same advantages.

rockitman · Sep 29, 2014

Frank750 said:
The Tri point Troy SE with an upgraded power cord and an upgraded grounding cable or 2 and a few standard cables is about $15k. I don't claim to have heard either Tri point or Entreq but take a look at the Tri point website, no comparison in build quality.

No doubt frank...I could wax off to the Tripoint Emprorer($70K) glossy mahogany fit and finish...plus their $4K per ground cable. I'm not convinced the $$$ is worth it...for grounding. Money better spent on your sports car of choice, imo.

Audiocrack · Sep 29, 2014

rockitman said:
No doubt frank...I could wax off to the Tripoint Emprorer($70K) glossy mahogany fit and finish...plus their $4K per ground cable. I'm not convinced the $$$ is worth it...for grounding. Money better spent on your sports car of choice, imo.

Don't you think that you should listen first to any of the Tripoint devices before having an opinion about Tripoint's pricing?

Jazzhead · Sep 30, 2014

rockitman said:
I'm not convinced the $$$ is worth it...for grounding. Money better spent on your sports car of choice, imo.

Wait until you get to understated and hear what grounding brings to the party. In my experience there is no downside to grounding all the components, or even double and triple tagging one single component. More is clearly better here. Get it right and your speakers should vanish and cannot be localised in the sound field while listening.This is the resultant drop in noise floor and the reduction of mechanical reproduction.Had a fellow audio chum over the other day and he paid me the nicest compliment, saying "All I can hear is the music".
All the best.

spiritofmusic · Sep 30, 2014

Jazzhead, grounding lends itself, like eg cable upgrading, to potential massive OCD and funds spent. I have no doubt if I went further into an Atlantis add-on box, Apollo to Atlantis cables, Receivus' per component, Powerus/Cleanus etc, I would continue to strip away noise/hash. And it seems Troy lends itself to multiple leads per component.
But after hitting a real eureka moment w/one Apollo lead per component and my Burmester conditioner synergising nicely w/my S. Tellus (source components and pre to Burmester, power components and Burmester to 8kVA Westwick balanced power transformer), and an initial experience w/Atlantis add-on box not being positive in my system (refer to Lloyd LL21 for a different story), I'm happy to stop off here.
In reality, I could never have gone down the grounding route if I had to buy an expensive all-in-one option a la Troy, could only have considered it w/the entry level options that Entreq offered.
I don't want this thread to concentrate on price alone, it is a market advantage that Entreq is more affordable than Troy, and I'm sure the Troy acolytes such as y'self are pleased there is a market alternative, now US customers can have somewhat of a choice.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 30, 2014

ok; after much pondering over many months, Entreq finally securing a US distributor tipped me over.

i just ordered from my Stillpoint dealer, and paid for (3) Silver Minimus units, (2) Ertha Apollo spades, and (1) Ertha Atlantis RCA.

one Silver Minimus and the Atlantis RCA will go on the darTZeel preamp (which includes both my phono sections), and one Silver Minimus and one Apollo spade will go on each speaker cable.

we will see how that goes and proceed from there. dipping my toe into this stuff. if it can take the big rig further then good.

i'm especially interested in how it does with my new dart pre due to arrive in November. if it can improve that i'll be stoked.

i'm told these units are in the initial order to Stillpoint, and that it ships today from Sweden to them. my units will ship to me when they are recieved at Stillpoint. i might have them in a couple weeks.

audioarcher · Sep 30, 2014

Congrats Mike. Should be interesting.

Barry2013 · Sep 30, 2014

I'll await your verdict with great interest Mike.
I'm a big fan.
A bit curious as to why you opted for the three Minimus and not the Silver Tellus.Presumably to have shorter connections to the speakers.I use their Konstantin speaker cables which are earthed to my YG Carmels and the combo is very effective.

LL21 · Sep 30, 2014

also will be interesting given Mike's system and particularly the incredible attention already invested in the power side. nevertheless, it has worked for a few systems that have apparently been well designed for power. Hopefully, there will be further improvements.

Note: as with all things (as Mike well knows) everything matters here...setup (they're not shielded) proximity, and vibration isolation. I also find that the Silver Tellus and Atlantis with Atlantis cables is quite an improvement...but one thing at a time. Lets see if Mike's initial order makes any improvements on his already sensational system.

I would definitely try the RCA inlets of the components (ie, grounding signal). Good luck and most curious to learn what you find/don't find. Good luck.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 30, 2014

Barry2013 said:
I'll await your verdict with great interest Mike.
I'm a big fan.
A bit curious as to why you opted for the three Minimus and not the Silver Tellus.Presumably to have shorter connections to the speakers.I use their Konstantin speaker cables which are earthed to my YG Carmels and the combo is very effective.

the feedback i'm getting is that the single box-single cable approach is the most optimal. and i can have the speaker cable Silver Minimus boxes behind each speaker. in my system, the dart pre includes my 2 phonos so that deals with my main interest. if it works well i can then move the the other 2 boxes around to other gear to see the effect. i could see having another Silver Minimus for my Tape Decks on the other side of the room, plus another Silver Minimus for my Playback Designs digital.

i realize that the one box-one cable approach has not been touted here on WBF, but evidently my dealer got that feedback from the distributor.

you can see below that i have a large room, my source gear is a long way away from my speakers and amps, and my tape decks are on the other side of the room. so i need multiple boxes. those very large/tall speaker towers make the room look smaller than it is.

dmnc02 · Sep 30, 2014

Mike, do you have a dedicated ground for the Equitech panel? How many ground rods?

It will be interesting to get feedback on the Entreq by somebody who has already optimized grounding by conventional means.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 30, 2014

dmnc02 said:
Mike, do you have a dedicated ground for the Equitech panel? How many ground rods?

It will be interesting to get feedback on the Entreq by somebody who has already optimized grounding by conventional means.

yes; I have a single dedicated 6 foot ground rod for my Equi=tech panel. it's just on the outside of the wall with the panel.

according to research I did, in the soil of the moist northwest mountains where I live, only one ground rod is needed. some very dry soil needs more exotic approaches for optimal performance. I understand that the PH of the soil is a big issue.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 30, 2014

I'm the farthest thing from having deep technical knowledge. and things electrical are mostly a bit murky to me.

so considering the (Minimus) single box-single cable verses the (Tellus) single box-multi-cable question......

intuitively it seems that these Entreq boxes are like little 'Earths'. they are not connected to any global ground, but are unto themselves. so keeping the ground of the signal path of each piece of gear isolated might be optimal.

also might not be optimal.....

again; claiming no technical back-up of this SWAG.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 30, 2014

LL21 said:
also will be interesting given Mike's system and particularly the incredible attention already invested in the power side. nevertheless, it has worked for a few systems that have apparently been well designed for power. Hopefully, there will be further improvements.

Note: as with all things (as Mike well knows) everything matters here...setup (they're not shielded) proximity, and vibration isolation. I also find that the Silver Tellus and Atlantis with Atlantis cables is quite an improvement...but one thing at a time. Lets see if Mike's initial order makes any improvements on his already sensational system.

I would definitely try the RCA inlets of the components (ie, grounding signal). Good luck and most curious to learn what you find/don't find. Good luck.

thanks Lloyd.

your efforts, investigations and feedback with Tripoint, and same with Spirit's (and others) with the Entreq, pushed me to take this leap of faith to invest without first hearing. Spirit has been on my case for quite awhile to do this.

I am also curious what I might hear. have I already touched all the bases or is there more ground to cover? I hope that there is more. and if there is, then this first small step won't be my last.

LL21 · Oct 1, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
thanks Lloyd.

your efforts, investigations and feedback with Tripoint, and same with Spirit's (and others) with the Entreq, pushed me to take this leap of faith to invest without first hearing. Spirit has been on my case for quite awhile to do this.

I am also curious what I might hear. have I already touched all the bases or is there more ground to cover? I hope that there is more. and if there is, then this first small step won't be my last.

Good luck, Mike.

Entreq Tellus grounding

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