Entreq Tellus grounding

rockitman · Oct 31, 2014

Audiocrack said:
See my previous remark regarding Mike's system and 'grounding' plans: if I were in your position, I would give any of the Tripoint audio products a serious listen before making any final 'grounding' decisions. The quality of your system deserves it and if you do, you may very well be in for another surprise.

I appreciate that. Each one deals with a different aspect of grounding. Tripoint for earth/chassis ground and Entreq for signal grounds. They are different cans of fish. It sounds to me it shouldn't necessarily be one approach or the other...probably both. At this point, I am happy with what I am hearing just on the signal ground plane. Once I get a handle on that, perhaps I will explore chassis grounding (Tripoint or Entreq Cleanus).

Audiocrack · Oct 31, 2014

Of course that is up to you. As mentioned in the thread I started regarding the Tripoint Troy 'grounding' is imho an essential/crucial but often overlooked factor in audio systems. 'Grounding' is so important to me that I ordered the Tripoint emperor notwithstanding the substantial costs involved. Furthermore, one of the reasons I am going to listen to the Tidal La Assoluta in my own listening room is because these state of the art speakers will have the possibility to 'ground' them. See one of my comments on the Tidal LA thread. Combining the Tidal LA and Tripoint emperor is a listening experience I am really looking forward to although I am not going to disclose my experiences because I am getting tired of the reactions of the 'high pricing brigade' on this forum.

I hope Mike is willing and able to listen to the Tripoint Troy in his system and compare the Troy to any of the Entreq products before reaching a final decision. I am sure he is not going to regret such a comparison. Me, I have just a gut feeling what the outcome of such a comparison is going to be.

rockitman · Oct 31, 2014

Audiocrack said:
Of course that is up to you. As mentioned in the thread I started regarding the Tripoint Troy 'grounding' is imho an essential/crucial but often overlooked factor in audio systems. 'Grounding' is so important to me that I ordered the Tripoint emperor notwithstanding the substantial costs involved. Furthermore, one of the reasons I am going to listen to the Tidal La Assoluta in my own listening room is because these state of the art speakers will have the possibility to 'ground' them. See one of my comments on the Tidal LA thread. Combining the Tidal LA and Tripoint emperor is a listening experience I am really looking forward to although I am not going to disclose my experiences because I am getting tired of the reactions of the 'high pricing brigade' on this forum.

I hope Mike is willing and able to listen to the Tripoint Troy in his system and compare the Troy to any of the Entreq products before reaching a final decision. I am sure he is not going to regret such a comparison. Me, I have just a gut feeling what the outcome of such a comparison is going to be.

Thanks for sharing. What Entreq products did you demo in your system and where...if any ?

Audiocrack · Oct 31, 2014

In my own systems I only listened to Tripoint products.

rockitman · Oct 31, 2014

Audiocrack said:
In my own systems I only listened to Tripoint products.

I appreciate you honesty and your appreciation for Tripoint. Since Tripoint deals with the earth ground plane and not signal, perhaps it's worth your while to try Entreq for signal plane. It's cheap in comparison to Tripoint and may very well deliver sonic benefits beyond the Tirpoint alone. The same goes for me addressing the earth ground plan (chassis) in addition to signal ground.

LL21 · Oct 31, 2014

That is awesome news, and I am very very happy for you. As a big fan and owner of Entreq (and Tripoint by the way), I am glad the US is finally getting an opportunity thru Stillpoints to hear these. I cannot think of any product that is perfect for every system and everyone...but over here, it has been met with extremely high praise that is, so far, pervasive amongst those who have tried it. Enjoy...and please keep us posted as the whole setup is installed and settles in.

rockitman said:
I had the pleasure and I mean pleasure auditioning the Silver Tellus in my system for 5 hours today. Observations ?

1) I was blown away by the improvement in image focus, depth of stage, layering of instruments, bass articulation and an over all sense of ease in the delivery of the music. The music sounds more organic, more real. This was not subtle in my system.

2) Cables matter. The top of the line Atlantis blows away the next in line..Apollo. This was not subtle. I repeat ably switched them out and it was clear to all of us that Atlantis is superior.

The areas where I plugged in the grounding cables that made the most impact were the Allnic H5000 DHT phono stage. 2 cables for left and right input on one unused set of inputs on the phono stage. 2 cables for left and right input on my main preamp. This configuration yielded most improvement. We also tried a lesser set of cables for the main pre's output (L&R). The improvement seemed more subtle, but I suspect it has to do with using the more inferior Apollo cable set. All cables were spade on one end for the Tellus side and rca for the component side. I will note that one cable can be used for each component, but two is significantly better.

As everyone knows, I was skeptical of this approach, especially the cables. I am now a believer. I will be ordering one or two Silver Tellus boxes and 6 pairs of Atlantis rca to spade cables. The last component I tried was taking the cables from the phono and connecting them to my UHA Phase 11S deck. I used the Apollo model since they were longer and although still inferior to the Atlantis wires, demonstrated that the Tape deck output benefits from a clean signal ground. I can only imagine how this stuff sounds once settled into the system for a couple days. I can wait for my kit to arrive. That's it for now. Mike L...You will be blown away I suspect.

spiritofmusic · Oct 31, 2014

Christian, the Entreq "converts" on this side of The Pond I'm sure are smiling that you're finally getting the unique benefits of grounding after a long, interminable wait to hear it in the US. Roll on MikeL's comments. It is fascinating that you're immediately grounding some components like the phono stage twice, and plumping straight for the Atlantis over Apollo. It strikes me that you're DEFINITELY going to need that second S. Tellus in terms of capacity as much as anything, and will most likely get a lot out of the Atlantis add-on box (one can be shared by a twin S. Tellus configuration). For my part I found the Atlantis cable upgrade wasn't a slam dunk, and despite Entreq's price competitiveness wrt Troy, I don't have endless pockets, and am happy to stick w/Apollo cables.
Audiocrack, I'm one of the more vociferous voices re stratospheric pricing, but I've posted before, and will post again now, that I'm formally less critical than I used to be, and if Troy Emperor really advances the SOTA, we need to hear about it. I suspect you are going to be the only one w/the Emperor, so I for one would really love to hear your views. I can't be any plainer in trying to strike a truce on critical price-related posts.
All of us should just be glad none of our spats go as far as "GamerGate".
For the big outlay you're planning for the Emperor, maybe you should set aside a little and try the Entreq signal grounding alongside your Troy chassis grounding? Whether Emperor really is that far ahead, there is no doubt that the two systems work on different aspects of grounding, and you may find Entreq enhances the effects you're already getting w. Troy SE, and will get w/the Emperor.
For someone who is strongly pointing people twds hearing Troy before they buy Entreq, maybe you need to do the same in reverse?

rockitman · Oct 31, 2014

I ordered two silver tellus and 6 Atlantis cables. In my system it was easy to a/b compare Atlantis and Apollo. The gain was significant. They are double the price of Apollo unfortunately. I plan to use a pair on phono input, a pair for main pre input and a pair for main pre outs to get in front of the amps. When I want to use the tape or dac, I will take them from the phono when needed.

Audiocrack · Oct 31, 2014

spiritofmusic said:
Christian, the Entreq "converts" on this side of The Pond I'm sure are smiling that you're finally getting the unique benefits of grounding after a long, interminable wait to hear it in the US. Roll on MikeL's comments. It is fascinating that you're immediately grounding some components like the phono stage twice, and plumping straight for the Atlantis over Apollo. It strikes me that you're DEFINITELY going to need that second S. Tellus in terms of capacity as much as anything, and will most likely get a lot out of the Atlantis add-on box (one can be shared by a twin S. Tellus configuration). For my part I found the Atlantis cable upgrade wasn't a slam dunk, and despite Entreq's price competitiveness wrt Troy, I don't have endless pockets, and am happy to stick w/Apollo cables.
Audiocrack, I'm one of the more vociferous voices re stratospheric pricing, but I've posted before, and will post again now, that I'm formally less critical than I used to be, and if Troy Emperor really advances the SOTA, we need to hear about it. I suspect you are going to be the only one w/the Emperor, so I for one would really love to hear your views. I can't be any plainer in trying to strike a truce on critical price-related posts.
All of us should just be glad none of our spats go as far as "GamerGate".
For the big outlay you're planning for the Emperor, maybe you should set aside a little and try the Entreq signal grounding alongside your Troy chassis grounding? Whether Emperor really is that far ahead, there is no doubt that the two systems work on different aspects of grounding, and you may find Entreq enhances the effects you're already getting w. Troy SE, and will get w/the Emperor.
For someone who is strongly pointing people twds hearing Troy before they buy Entreq, maybe you need to do the same in reverse?

Ttuly appreciate your 'truce' proposal, Spirit, but for now I have decided to remain silent. Anyway, the delivery of the Tripoint emperor will not take place before the end of November or the beginning of December. So let's wait what the future will bring.

Will give Christians and your proposal regarding Entreq some serious thought.

spiritofmusic · Oct 31, 2014

Christian, I really wouldn't recommend plugging your preamp Atlantis' in and out as needed. Grounding takes time to work, and each time it's disrupted, has to start from scratch. You'll find the effects of Entreq improve at the 20 min point, get better over the next 24-48 hrs, and max out after 2 wks. Every time you pull the plug, so to speak, this has to start over again.
Personally I would advise you to stick w/as many Atlantis' as you can afford, and leave them permanently in the system. Even if this means a component like your R2R remains ungrounded to begin. Whatever dramatic results you got in your 5 hr trial will pale in comparison to how it'll sound when settled in.
So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not unplug/plug Atlantis from preamp as you've suggested. I'm sure Lloyd will back me up on this.
Audiocrack, hope it goes well w/Emperor - they certainly went gaga over it at the recent AE High End show in HK, and it went a long way in maxxing the dreamy quality of the SQ achieved. If you can afford it, and it gives you something that even Troy SE cannot, I for one would support your decision to buy it. At the levels of most high end systems it gets harder and harder to get to the next level, and I suspect spending the $70k that Emperor costs on e.g. a couple of amp changes, or a few SOTA ICs or PCs won't put as big a smile on your face. The Emperor will be a system-wide impvt, so not as expensive in global terms as the price tag suggests.

Mordecai · Oct 31, 2014

rockitman said:
2 cables for left and right input on one unused set of inputs on the phono stage. 2 cables for left and right input on my main preamp. This configuration yielded most improvement. We also tried a lesser set of cables for the main pre's output (L&R). The improvement seemed more subtle, but I suspect it has to do with using the more inferior Apollo cable set. All cables were spade on one end for the Tellus side and rca for the component side. I will note that one cable can be used for each component, but two is significantly better.

Thanks for the insight. I was under the assumption that you'd only ever need/use one connection per component. Now gives me something else to consider!

spiritofmusic · Oct 31, 2014

Mordecai, much as I love what grounding has done for my system, I struggle to contemplate let alone afford multiple grounding per single component. In Asia, the well-heeled audiophiles are running Entreq and Troy together w/MULTIPLE Troy ground leads to separate chassis screws on EACH component, AND Entreq signal grounding to the same components, maybe MORE than one per component. These solutions cumulatively cost a small fortune, and not many will be able to follow suit. I've moved to a 4 box true mono Audion preamp which means a second preamp Apollo, and am waiting for Zu sub amp modules that I've specced w/ground posts, so I'm going to have to buy 3 more Apollos than I was expecting to (8 in total instead of 5). This is well extravagant enough for me personally.
Grounding can lead to as much OCD as anything else in audio, and I personally need to keep a perspective on everything

! But it is certainly exciting to hear Christian and his positive comments re multiple grounding to his phono.

GuillaumeB · Oct 31, 2014

For what it's worth I tried connecting two Apollo cables to my Devialet units and it didn't make any difference over the one.

Strongly considering upgrading ground cables to Atlantis. I already have the Atlantis power cables (with Atlantis ground cables) in my system with a separate Silver Tellus box for mains duties and they are fantastic.

Guillaume

Barry2013 · Oct 31, 2014

That is great news and accords with my experience.
I agree with Mark about keeping the earth leads plugged in. The Atlantis box is a good buy in itself and it does enable you to run more earth leads from the Silver Tellus.
The defining features of Entreq for me are the big reduction in the noise floor and the naturalness of the sound.
All my cabling is Entreq and still upgrading. Last was three balanced Apollo i/cs for the sources and the difference was not subtle.

spiritofmusic · Oct 31, 2014

+1 re reduction in noise floor. Accumulative impvts via Entreq grounding and Westwick 8kVA balanced power/Burmester 948 conditioner mean that my system finally reveals so much more low level detail/ambient cues/microdynamics, that any changes further up the chain are much more easily discernible e.g. the impvts via Sablon cables and Elrog 845 tubes I've been auditioning are easy to pick up on v. much due to the positive effects of grounding.

Audiocrack · Oct 31, 2014

BTW, Tripoint Troy Signature and Tripon Emperor are capable of signal ground. If you wish to try signal ground just allocate one binding post in the back of the Troy or Emperor for signal ground and don't mix it with the earth ground. Plugging in the unit is optional and up to the user. Apparently many audiophiles in Asia use this configuration with great results. If I remember correctly, Lloyd had done signal grounding with his Troy se in the past as well.

Jazzhead · Oct 31, 2014

Is there really a difference between chassis and signal grounding ? Me thinks they both are the same , grounding is grounding . Reduction in EMI ...... Amazing though , and in my experience yet to hit a brick wall , the more you ground the better it sounds , no end in sight !

allvinyl · Oct 31, 2014

Entreq Observations and Configurations

Makes sense that any dual-mono designed component will require 2 cables, one for each channel to affect the change on both channels.

Another improvement awaits when you place an Atlantis box on top of each Silver Tellus.

John

rockitman said:
I had the pleasure and I mean pleasure auditioning the Silver Tellus in my system for 5 hours today. Observations ?

1) I was blown away by the improvement in image focus, depth of stage, layering of instruments, bass articulation and an over all sense of ease in the delivery of the music. The music sounds more organic, more real. This was not subtle in my system.

2) Cables matter. The top of the line Atlantis blows away the next in line..Apollo. This was not subtle. I repeat ably switched them out and it was clear to all of us that Atlantis is superior.

The areas where I plugged in the grounding cables that made the most impact were the Allnic H5000 DHT phono stage. 2 cables for left and right input on one unused set of inputs on the phono stage. 2 cables for left and right input on my main preamp. This configuration yielded most improvement. We also tried a lesser set of cables for the main pre's output (L&R). The improvement seemed more subtle, but I suspect it has to do with using the more inferior Apollo cable set. All cables were spade on one end for the Tellus side and rca for the component side. I will note that one cable can be used for each component, but two is significantly better.

As everyone knows, I was skeptical of this approach, especially the cables. I am now a believer. I will be ordering one or two Silver Tellus boxes and 6 pairs of Atlantis rca to spade cables. The last component I tried was taking the cables from the phono and connecting them to my UHA Phase 11S deck. I used the Apollo model since they were longer and although still inferior to the Atlantis wires, demonstrated that the Tape deck output benefits from a clean signal ground. I can only imagine how this stuff sounds once settled into the system for a couple days. I can wait for my kit to arrive. That's it for now. Mike L...You will be blown away I suspect.

allvinyl · Oct 31, 2014

Entreq Grounding Cables and Impedence Matching

spiritofmusic said:
Christian, ... For my part I found the Atlantis cable upgrade wasn't a slam dunk, and despite Entreq's price competitiveness wrt Troy, I don't have endless pockets, and am happy to stick w/Apollo cables.

Though the Atlantis will perform well in any system, the cable part of the total Entreq solution is system dependent due to system to system variability concerning impedance matching. So, when demoing the Entreq products we are encouraging dealers and users to try the entire cable line as a lesser cable from the line may be a better match in that particular system.

John

dmnc02 · Oct 31, 2014

allvinyl said:
Though the Atlantis will perform well in any system, the cable part of the total Entreq solution is system dependent due to system to system variability concerning impedance matching. So, when demoing the Entreq products we are encouraging dealers and users to try the entire cable line as a lesser cable from the line may be a better match in that particular system.

John

John, my system is run fully balanced from source to amplifier, but my line stage has both RCA and XLR inputs and outputs and I have unused connections of either type. Would you recommend using RCA to Spade or XLR to Spade for earth cables? Should it make any difference which connectors are used (i.e., should I try both)?

Entreq Tellus grounding

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