Does it matter?

jazdoc

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Anyway. why should all manufacturers arms have adjustable azimuth if 95% of owners do not have a test LP and measuring systems to adjust it ?



Because you can HEAR the difference.
 

Dre_J

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Mar 5, 2012
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I think the DaVinci arm reviewed by Valin lacked this necessity.

The DaVinci Grandezza did not have azimuth adjustability built in. Like many others including the "mighty SME V-12" you had to rely on the cartridge being in what I would call the neutral zone. Not necessarily perfected but within a respectable range.

The DaVinci Masters Reference Tonearm Virtu does have adjustable azimuth. I've put many cartridges on this arm including the MC Anna and Goldfinger Statement. Additionally the Virtu is a much better arm, shockingly so, than the Grandezza (an arm I had a lot of respect for and still do).

Dre
 
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Johnny Vinyl

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^^^^ Cool snippet Bob! :)
 

rockitman

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Azimuth matters. The cantilever/stylus is not necessary perpendicular (could have a minute twist), especially with hand made carts. If you asked me this question in the 70's, I had no alignment tools ect. Just lined the cart up with the headshell slots, lol.
 

Dre_J

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It's great to debate about the theoretical but the reality is that there are micro and macro azimuth adjustments. Yes sometimes too much macro-adjustment could be considered a defective cartridge as some found with van den Hul cartridges. But then there are micro-adjustments that can be read on instruments for either crosstalk for phase. How could the cartridge manufacturer correct for those factors that are a combination of table, arm and cartridge construction and setup?

What's really interesting to me is that I feel most manufacturers would rather not have their cartridge performance measured during setup because of the complications, variables, and setup methods used along with the potential and frequent inquiries about a "defect" in the cartridge. I'm sure many, but not all, would prefer the owner error on the side of not knowing.

In some (more than one and less than twenty) setup situations I've had to go to bat for the cartridge owner in order to get them a cartridge that falls closer to specifications. In these situations, I'm not talking about minor issues or the stuff of some obsessive behavior. It's more like "if this were my product that represented my company, I would not want it out in public". Despite the apparent good sound the device produces, I would know of other examples of that companies work that is exemplary. Multiple names withheld on purpose. No kiss and tell this time.

That being said, I seriously don't think I will ever feel I'm getting the best performance out of an arm cartridge combination if I can't adjust the azimuth. It is that important to me. If faced with this dilemma in my own system, I would eventually add a shim or two If for no other reason than to sacrifice a ridged connection to characterize, compare, and contrast a better azimuth setting with the ridged connection to the headshell. Either case is a compromise IMO but one of then will be less so, hopefully.

Dre
 

Johnny Vinyl

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Azimuth matters. The cantilever/stylus is not necessary perpendicular (could have a minute twist), especially with hand made carts. If you asked me this question in the 70's, I had no alignment tools ect. Just lined the cart up with the headshell slots, lol.


What tools do you have to make those adjustments Christian?
 

rockitman

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What tools do you have to make those adjustments Christian?

I use my eye to make sure the it's as perpendicular as possible (uni-pivot bearing..not leaning one way or the other), then I use a Fozgometer to dial it in. It's measure voltage output for each channel in concert with the azimuth test tracks on the Analogue Productions test record. I try to match the voltage readings as close as possible.
 

rockitman

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What tools do you have to make those adjustments Christian?

My cart alignment experience and tools:

For Graham arm's, I went through the trouble with a Mint from Hong Kong. Turns out, using the graham jig sounds better and far easier to get done. IMO, the stress over being within a hairs distance on the zenith alignment is overblown. All that time spent goes out the window when the skating forces start when you play a record and the cantilever flexes one way or the other, hence the importance of proper anti skate force to balance and keep the cantilever straight as possible. Overhang is key though to get spot on.

I also have e Feikert Protractor that I use for different arms.
 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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Azimuth matters. The cantilever/stylus is not necessary perpendicular (could have a minute twist), especially with hand made carts. If you asked me this question in the 70's, I had no alignment tools ect. Just lined the cart up with the headshell slots, lol.

Yeah, really.

and let's not forget that the more aggressive the stylus cut, the more important azimuth becomes ...
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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My cart alignment experience and tools:

For Graham arm's, I went through the trouble with a Mint from Hong Kong. Turns out, using the graham jig sounds better and far easier to get done. IMO, the stress over being within a hairs distance on the zenith alignment is overblown. All that time spent goes out the window when the skating forces start when you play a record and the cantilever flexes one way or the other, hence the importance of proper anti skate force to balance and keep the cantilever straight as possible. Overhang is key though to get spot on.

I also have e Feikert Protractor that I use for different arms.

How much of that zenith observation do you think is due to many linear tracking arms deviation from perfect tangency as they traverse the record?
 

NorthStar

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Feb 8, 2011
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Good one, Bob, LOL.:D

In this instance, the other forum was one nasty place for an a'phile like me to hang out...as Analogue Innovation can attest to;)

I did some research into this, but without success. ...Analogplanet doesn't have a forum per se (only comments and questions), Audiogon is too "classy",
and Stevehoffmanforum doesn't live strictly on the dark side.
 

rockitman

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How much of that zenith observation do you think is due to many linear tracking arms deviation from perfect tangency as they traverse the record?

Is this a test question ;) I can't speak for linear trackers since I have never owned one. I would think skating forces still apply with regard to bending/pulling of the cantilever.
 

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