Does it matter?

DaveyF · Sep 9, 2013

On another forum, that I will probably no longer be posting on, I asked the question IF the members believed in the ability of the tonearm to adjust azimuth. BIG MISTAKE. I was flamed to death with comments like:
Why would I want to adjust azimuth when I am perfectly happy with the sound that I am getting. I paid a lot of money for my cartridge and for the guru to set it up on my TT and I would NOT want to or have to adjust anything myself!
Or this: Having the ability to adjust azimuth will introduce more losses into the signal as there would need to be another joint in the tonearm and this would more than off-set the "supposed" advantage. Or this: The cartridge manufacturer should be able to built the cartridge so that it is correctly aligned....IF that is not the case then the cartridge manufacturer and cartridge are at fault!
This particular forum is made up of guys who adore the TT and arm that the forum is designed for; WELL known product. However, IMHO the arm in question ( very well known and high priced), is IMHO not at all competitive with today's arms, is a very flawed product.
Azimuth adjustment....Does it matter?

NorthStar · Sep 9, 2013

Hi Davey, :b

When they are mastering the best records, what kind of turntables are they using during the mastering process, and after during the listening tests?

The record master engineers; do they adjust the azimuth of their mastered turntable's tonearms?
And what kind of tonearms are best for mastering record albums (vinyl)?

Last, do you mind naming that other audio (analog) forum?

Have a great week.

rockitman · Sep 9, 2013

spill it...SME ?

DaveyF · Sep 9, 2013

Guys, I'm not sure the mods would like me to tell

. However, it was NOT SME.

Analogue innovation · Sep 9, 2013

I believe it matters but I use a PU7 with azimuth adjustment. Although I set by ear and a test record.

John R.

P.S. Hey DaveyF , it turns out I've been a member of WBF for a while and forgot about it because of all the crap I've had to deal with elsewhere!

NorthStar · Sep 9, 2013

DaveyF said:
Guys, I'm not sure the mods would like me to tell. However, it was NOT SME.

WBF has no objection in simply enumerating another audio website. ...You did not say anything bad, or good about it; you just said what you have to say.
You're an adult, we're all adults; and we all behave as respectable adults searching for the deeper truth about what's best in everything.

NorthStar · Sep 9, 2013

Analogue innovation said:
I believe it matters but I use a PU7 with azimuth adjustment. Although I set by ear and a test record.

John R.

P.S. Hey DaveyF , it turns out I've been a member of WBF for a while and forgot about it because of all the crap I've had to deal with elsewhere!

Where is "elsewhere"?

jazdoc · Sep 9, 2013

I'm in the camp that azimuth is equally important as other set up parameters such as VTF, VTA, and offset angle. IMO, it gets let attention because many tonearm manufacturers don't allow adjustment or adjusting is difficult. Azimuth is typically the last parameter to dial in and oft times, the difference between spot on and merely close is quite audible.

NorthStar · Sep 9, 2013

Michael Fremer, the analog turntable guru of all analog TT gurus; does he adjust his tonearm's azimuth?

puroagave · Sep 9, 2013

DaveyF said:
On another forum, that I will probably no longer be posting on, I asked the question IF the members believed in the ability of the tonearm to adjust azimuth. BIG MISTAKE.

linn ekos? along with the SME and rega you cant fiddle w/ the azimuth on theses arms unless you improvise w/ shims - they all have captive bearings in common. you couldnt properly set-up a unipivot w/o azimuth adjustment, irrespective of the cartridge.

microstrip · Sep 9, 2013

There is no definitive answer to this question. People who prefer the rigid tonearm will tell you that if your cartridge needs twisting you should return it and ask the manufacturer for a perfect sample. It is a reasonable argument. But you should also consider that a small azimuth adjustment is very easy to carry if you have a test LP, can save you a lot of work and perhaps even avoid conflicts with your cartridge dealer!

Audiophile life is filled with compromises.

mep · Sep 9, 2013

rockitman said:
spill it...SME ?

My SME 312S has adjustable azimuth.

puroagave · Sep 9, 2013

mep said:
My SME 312S has adjustable azimuth.

unless its a model with a fixed headshell

TBone · Sep 9, 2013

Azimuth is typically the last parameter to dial in and oft times, the difference between spot on and merely close is quite audible.

I consider azimuth one of the most important setup/sonic parameters, and perhaps one of the least understood. The fact is, if azimuth is off even by a small amount (which is often the case), listening for precise SRA becomes more of a compromised affair. Especially true with particular tonearms that lack azimuth adjustment, don't inc. aligned bearings, and with audiophiles who use carts which require a higher degree of non-parallel VTA in order to attain desired SRA.

And with those who trump detachable headshells, how many bother to precisely re-adjust azimuth every time they re-attach a cartridge? I've been to demo's in which this "issue" wasn't even addressed.

ack · Sep 9, 2013

Does it matter to be able to set azimuth? Assuming a cartridge can never be assumed to be perfectly aligned internally, there is yet another more compelling reason to have that capability: in a non-linear arm, when you adjust SRA you are inevitably affecting azimuth.

Analogue innovation · Sep 9, 2013

NorthStar said:
Where is "elsewhere"?

On a couple of shall we say, well established forums where I've not been permitted to put my point of view over. Consequently when when I become more forthright/robust in my defence, I'm either banned or patronised.

Steve Williams · Sep 9, 2013

there is absolutely no reason to name other forums except to say Welcome back to WBF

microstrip · Sep 9, 2013

mep said:
My SME 312S has adjustable azimuth.

I have to say that my Sumiko MDC 800 did not have adjustable azimuth and in arms such as the ET2 for many years I adjusted it with a mirror

, although now I do it properly.

Anyway. why should all manufacturers arms have adjustable azimuth if 95% of owners do not have a test LP and measuring systems to adjust it ?

Analogue innovation · Sep 9, 2013

Steve Williams said:
there is absolutely no reason to name other forums except to say Welcome back to WBF

Many thanks for your warm welcome back Steve!

Actually it was DaveyF who encouraged me after we supported each other, (but got nowhere) when dabbling elsewhere.

John R.

MylesBAstor · Sep 9, 2013

puroagave said:
linn ekos? along with the SME and rega you cant fiddle w/ the azimuth on theses arms unless you improvise w/ shims - they all have captive bearings in common. you couldnt properly set-up a unipivot w/o azimuth adjustment, irrespective of the cartridge.

I think the DaVinci arm reviewed by Valin lacked this necessity. I din't remember the Itok allowing for azimuth adjustment either but my memory could be failing. Neither could you adjust the older SMEs but the newer models allow for azimuth correction. Now how it's achieved in the arm's design is another thing eg. Cocking the headshell or counterweight, the arm tube, etc. (The NAIM ARO arm reviewed in Stereophile a couple of years ago lacked the ability to adjust overhang. Isn't that a bigger issue?

)

It's great to debate about the theoretical but the reality is that there are micro and macro azimuth adjustments. Yes sometimes too much macro-adjustment could be considered a defective cartridge as some found with van den Hul cartridges. But then there are micro-adjustments that can be read on instruments for either crosstalk for phase. How could the cartridge manufacturer correct for those factors that are a combination of table, arm and cartridge construction and setup?

Does it matter?

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