New Owner of BDP-83: Some Observations

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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I finally was pushed over the edge to buy the Oppo 83 last month, because of a Blu-ray disc I authored which has so much dynamic range that my Sony BDP-S301 is too noisy to allow the ambient sounds on the disc to be heard without a lot of hiss and hum. The disc has well over 85dB of dynamic aperture and was mastered from a 24-bit recording. In case you're wondering what could have so much dynamic range, it's a recording my company was commissioned to make for an international fireworks/pyro company and we made it from the launch site, where the maximum loudness was achieved.

The disc presents many challenges. The slightest noise in a system will mask the ambient sounds before the explosions begin. Having a -100dB noise floor is simply not good enough to properly enjoy this disc.

Naturally, when I read that the Oppo has -110dB noise floor and the ability to trim each output to +10dB, I figured this would gain me an extra 10dB of s/n ratio. Unfortunately, the Oppo cannot use the full potential of the output op-amps. The D/A converter clips when the op-amps are only at 2.4vrms output, even though they are capable of 9.8vrms, having 14 volt rails. That was a disappointment.

Prior to installing the new firmware, I was able to keep +trim values in the speaker configuration and control the clipping with the main Oppo volume control. After the upgrade, any small amount of + trim will now cause the Oppo to clip. Never use + trim values if you have the May 2010 firmware. I don't know why Oppo bothers to put positive values on the trim because of this.

On the test bench, I was dismayed that the Nyquist filtering is a throwback to 1983 and the first-generation CD players. With a 400Hz square wave test signal on CD audio, the Oppo rings throughout the entire period of each half cycle. In contrast, my Sony Blu-ray player damps out the oscillations about 1/3 of the period of one half cycle and the overshoot is about 2% vs. 6% for the Oppo. This is not good performance for a DAC made after 1986. It should be no surprise that the SE version, if it's square wave response is better, would sound audibly better than the base model.

Gripes aside, the BDP-83 performs admirably on the visual side. Evaluating images on my 60 sq ft projection screen, the deblocking, mosquito noise removal, color accuracy and dynamic range are all superb. And for DVD playback, it really does make them look their best, almost film-like. I have one terribly-mastered DVD video from Central Park Media, which looked unwatchable on my Sony, back when it was driving a 47" LCD. It was endurable on the Oppo, even on a much larger screen.

If Oppo has chosen to make full use of the output capabilities of the analog op-amps, they could have had the ability to put out +20dBm, making itself a leader in getting above the noise floor with extraordinary program material. As it stands, I find myself in the position of wanting to modify an in-warranty unit, because it bugs the heck out of me that the unit is only able to put out +9dBm at DAC clipping. Oppo could have used that extra headroom by allowing +10dB trims before clipping. No digital apparatus should be designed such that through volume and trim settings, the unit could be made to clip. That's just poor design. I wonder how many people have + trim values and are wondering why the music sounds distorted?

The BDP-83 is a decent player, but I'm not all that impressed with the audio section.
 

vinylphilemag

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My understanding is that the SE and Nuforce SE editions are designed specifically to address the shortcomings in the audio section you've identified.
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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I could almost sense that Oppo intentionally junked up the standard edition Nyquist filtering just so they could sell the SE model with a properly-done Nyquist with oversampling. But that seems preposterous in this day and age. Oversampling CD players existed in the mid 1980s and had better square wave response than the must highly-touted Oppo 83. In my opinion, one would have to intentionally make a DAC that bad, as off the shelf DACs perform better than this today. My Sony player is one example.

I have not heard anything about the SE model having any hotter output than the standard model. Oppo quoted me 2.4vrms for the standard model. I would have bought the SE model had it been capable of 9vrms output.
 

Bruce B

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I just got an Exempler modified 83 for our Post room. I had a previous one for about a month and ran it through it's paces. It's good for the price, though I was comparing it to my Playback Designs MPS-5.
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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I'm not all that impressed with the sound of the Oppo 83. How can something that rings like a first-generation CD player from 1983 sound good? It must be 1X-sampled filtering. It's okay, but I think the Denon DCD-590 sounds better. At least when it's working (mine developed a fault in the DAC on the left channel recently).
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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Oscillographs Comparing Oppo BDP-83 Square Wave Response with Reference Studio Gear

As part of my scientific inquiry into the sound quality and accuracy of equipment in my listening room, I measured the much-vaunted Oppo BDP-83 audio outputs with a 400Hz square wave on a test disc.
I also output a 400Hz square wave from my reference DAC. The test is stacked a bit against the reference, as it passes through a mixing desk AND my preamp, whereas the Oppo was measured off my preamp, without the additional cabling and audio stages of the mixing desk in the way. I can state that I've measured the Oppo outputs in the lab, directly, and they look the same as what I'm seeing off the Oppo --> preamp hookup.

The main issue here is that the Oppo's Nyquist filter rings like a bell.

Let's compare. Here is the Oppo:
Oppo BDP-83 squar&#10.jpg

Now here is the reference DAC, which is also running through my entire chain, plus 50' of poor quality cable (and still almost faithful to the original) to my preamp:
Reference square&#32.jpg

Needless to say, the Oppo's square wave response is very much remeniscent of first-generation CD players from 1983.

So why are people so worked up about the sound? It's probably because the Oppo is adding something to the sound, perhaps a series high frequency overtones which, for some reason, are harmonically-related to the music and thus not unpleasant. But I can't say that it's a faithful representation of the source signal.

With complex musical material, this sort of distortion may color the sound in ways that would be hard to predict.
 

Kal Rubinson

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I have not heard anything about the SE model having any hotter output than the standard model. Oppo quoted me 2.4vrms for the standard model. I would have bought the SE model had it been capable of 9vrms output.
Hotter wasn't the point, Mark.
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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Hotter wasn't the point, Mark.

I know that, Kal. At least from Oppo's perspective. However, I have an unusual application where an extra 10dB of output would make a dramatic improvement in s/n ratio. It always irks me when a manufacture uses only a small portion of an op-amp's headroom, thus effectively raising the noise floor of both itself and everything downstream. Anyway, my application is a pyrotechnic event with more than 85dB of dynamic aperture. Digging down into the ambient sound levels, bring them up to lifelike levels means any hum down around -100dB becomes a major part of the audio program. I would much prefer a s/n ratio of 25dB over that of 15dB (which is all that's left before the pyrotech explosions begin.
I'm actually considering modifying the 8 op-amp buffer stages on my BDP-83 to enable them to swing their full potentional when the DAC is driven to it's threshold of clipping. If the "SE" upgrade accomplished that, it would be worth it to me. It probably doesn't, so I'll end up doing it myself.
 

Mobiusman

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Mark,

Thanks for writing such a detailed review. I too have been contemplating an Oppo, but am not sure which way to go, with regard to non-Oppo mods. From what I have been able to learn, albeit with some difficulty, is that the ModWright mod is the only mod that addresses the analog out problems by completely replacing the analog board. Interestingly, Dan Wright claims that his mods work better with the base 83 than the SE. He is also just about to release a tubed version that he feels sets the bar even higher. He also offers a true balanced version if you wish.

The NuForce and TruForce mods seems to be just that, more mods (mostly capacitor, connector and damping) than a complete redesign of the analog section. I look forward to your future shared learnings.
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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Russ, I have heard about the ModWright mods and a couple of others along that line, and I don't buy into the concept. It's a money maker for the companies that do these mods and, while it may alter the character of the sound, I much doubt it would address the levels because that is a DSP programming issue which Oppo would have to address via firmware and changing the gain of the output buffers to take advantage of this feature.

At present, if you use and positive Trim values, the Oppo will clip with material that is close to 0dBfs. This is a poor design decision, IMHO. It is worse since the May firmware was released, because now the volume is controlled in the DAC instead of the DSP, so if material is too hot for the Trim + settings, you can't compensate by lowering the master volume on the remote like with the earlier firmware. So no + value of Trim should ever be used, because in all likelihood, you'll end up playing a disc with "hot" levels that will clip in the DSP.

The only meaningful audiophile mod would be to change the whole DAC/Nyquist filter system to an oversampling system and use a first-order low pass filter, keeping the ripple out of the audio passband. As it stands, it looks like Oppo is using a multipole filter with a very steep cutoff after 20KHz, which have the undesirable characteristic of passband ripple within the audio range, as you can see on the square wave test. Really, I'm beside myself that any modern company would release a player with this severe a problem. If it wasn't for the great picture and other conveniences, I'd have returned mine already.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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Russ, I have heard about the ModWright mods and a couple of others along that line, and I don't buy into the concept. It's a money maker for the companies that do these mods and, while it may alter the character of the sound, I much doubt it would address the levels because that is a DSP programming issue which Oppo would have to address via firmware and changing the gain of the output buffers to take advantage of this feature.

At present, if you use and positive Trim values, the Oppo will clip with material that is close to 0dBfs. This is a poor design decision, IMHO. It is worse since the May firmware was released, because now the volume is controlled in the DAC instead of the DSP, so if material is too hot for the Trim + settings, you can't compensate by lowering the master volume on the remote like with the earlier firmware. So no + value of Trim should ever be used, because in all likelihood, you'll end up playing a disc with "hot" levels that will clip in the DSP.

The only meaningful audiophile mod would be to change the whole DAC/Nyquist filter system to an oversampling system and use a first-order low pass filter, keeping the ripple out of the audio passband. As it stands, it looks like Oppo is using a multipole filter with a very steep cutoff after 20KHz, which have the undesirable characteristic of passband ripple within the audio range, as you can see on the square wave test. Really, I'm beside myself that any modern company would release a player with this severe a problem. If it wasn't for the great picture and other conveniences, I'd have returned mine already.

Is this a problem with the Oppo only?

John
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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The levels issue is not really a "problem" in the traditional sense. It's more of a "gee, there's capabilities in the hardware to do something above and beyond conventional and it's disabled by design" situation.

The square wave response, IMHO, is a problem. How much does it affect sound? That could be determined with DBLTs and experienced listeners who are sensitive to the known artifacts.

Other players put out about +10dBm with a 0dBfs sine wave on a recorded media, such as a Test CD. The Oppo is in that ball park too. But it has Trim adjustments that allow +/-10dB variation of the gain in the DSP for each set of channel outputs. Any positive value will clip in the DSP, so why they even have the ability to input positive values is of dubious use.

Oppo could improve this situation by increasing the analog buffer gain by 10dB and rolling back the 'default' 0dBfs level from the DAC by 10dB. That way, with 0dB trim values, the player will match the industry standard output levels, but will not clip when some user adjusts the trims to +10dB. In that case, the player will output +20dBm, which is ideal for ultra high dynamic range stuff, like my Ultimate Fireworks Video on Blu-ray, which the first 20 seconds of contains the buildup to the fireworks and you can hear the National Anthem playing, about -85dB in the mix. Once the louder fireworks explosions get going, the loudest peak is at 0dBfs, so using the Trims to get the ambient nicely above the noise floor of electronics downstream would only result in severe clipping when the reall action begins.

Other players I've owned don't give you Trim capabilities, so it's not an issue. Just leave the trims at "0" and it's like any other player. Except for the square wave response.
 

Mobiusman

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Mark and Mary Ann,

I just realized that you responded to my query and want to thank you very much for your thoughtful and detailed response. While I think I got the gist of it, much of it is beyond my detailed knowledge grasp.

However, I would like to ask you if you have any recommendations for a CD player that has a great DAC section that is accessible to other inputs like a computer. I see that the Rega Isis does this, but I suspect that it will be quite expensive.
 

Steve Bruzonsky

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May 15, 2010
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Mark,if you live by anyone with a Marantz UD9004 Universal player (Blu Ray, SACD, DVD-A, CD), which is outstanding on multi-channel single-ended analog outs, and also on stereo XLR outs,
try it. Of course at 6 grand MSRP its a lot of moolah. But I had the Oppo. I got the Marantz five months ago. All I san say is WOW!
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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Aug 3, 2010
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Russ, most CD players made after 1988 are pretty good. Most of them have 4-8X oversampling and pretty good quality DACs. I can't recommend any particular one over another. I've only tested my Denon DCD-590, which is pretty good.

Steve, 6 grand for a disc player is obscene. I wouldn't buy it just on principal of making a 19,000% profit over cost of manufacture. That is just playing us for fools and rapacious greed on the part of the manufacturer. I'm sure Saul Marantz is turning over in his grave over this.
 

flez007

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Aug 31, 2010
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I have the SE/nuforce/parts connection deck, and have compared the sound using the direct analog output to the Toslink digital output feeding my Reimyo DAC ... No contest!.. The Reimyo DAC is far better in parameters such as resolution, ambience, extension and transparency compared to the analog output of the highly modified option.
 

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