I'm tempted but my brain keeps telling me No.

jcmusic

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2010
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Just Outside New Orleans, La.
Bruce I can only imagine what was going on with the unit you had, I have one of Kara's 222's and it has been glorious since day one. I have never had an RF problem either, all I did was change the tubes that came with it set the HF and it has been great...
All the rest of the tape pre's I tried were quiet. Don't know why the Dehavilland picked up the RFI. The Doshi and SE King are quiet.
 

jcmusic

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2010
400
6
925
Just Outside New Orleans, La.
Steve,
I never had this problem either and my horns are 108db efficent, so i think I would hear noise if it was there. I did have to find really good tubes though, the tubes that come with most tubed tape pre's are just not good enough...
I've heard most of the tube version tape head preamps and most were noisy in my system until I heard Nick's unit and my search stopped there. IMO it is very difficult to best the sound quality and build of this unit
 

Jazzbo

New Member
Aug 20, 2012
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0
Atlanta, Georgia Area
Good morning JCMusic,
I was preparing to attend a men's meeting at church, but wanted to respond to your note here. I believe I met you back in the early years of The Tape Project website startup. I may be mistaken. However, I just began to notice some RFI and could not understand what was happening until I put my ear to my Magnapan speakers. Shonuf there was low level music (rock-n-roll?) that could barely be heard coming from my Maggies. From my listening chair I can't hear anything, however, it was only when I approached my speaker system to activate the sub-woofers I could hear extremely low level music. Thank you for the mention of Mogami cables. Tell me which specific cable do you use and where did buy them? I very much appreciate your response. I get so much assistance from everyone here and that's wonderful. Thanks JCMusic.

jazzbo Bob
 

jcmusic

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2010
400
6
925
Just Outside New Orleans, La.
Hi bob,
Yes I was one of the early subscribers to the TP so we probably have spoken before, the Mogami cable I use from my PB head to my tape pre's is 2964. I don't remember exactly where I got it but, I just got some more cable from New York Audio. Really good people to deal with...
Good morning JCMusic,
I was preparing to attend a men's meeting at church, but wanted to respond to your note here. I believe I met you back in the early years of The Tape Project website startup. I may be mistaken. However, I just began to notice some RFI and could not understand what was happening until I put my ear to my Magnapan speakers. Shonuf there was low level music (rock-n-roll?) that could barely be heard coming from my Maggies. From my listening chair I can't hear anything, however, it was only when I approached my speaker system to activate the sub-woofers I could hear extremely low level music. Thank you for the mention of Mogami cables. Tell me which specific cable do you use and where did buy them? I very much appreciate your response. I get so much assistance from everyone here and that's wonderful. Thanks JCMusic.

jazzbo Bob
 

tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
As I all way say different systems and locations will not have the same result of changing one of the same equipment in there what you can do is try first, listen and judge by yourself, tube is the main thing of a tube amp but in big different quality making, even same brand in different year make too, they are microphonic can catch things from air, if the sensitivity to you system is not that important to them then you can keep on changing tubes till to get a quiet one to use
tony ma
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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Here ya go Sam,give it a try. I would be really interested in how they sound.

http://www.audioupgrades.com/

Hi Roger,

I've actually spoken and exchanged e-mails with Jim, but the topic was Audio Precision audio analyzers :)


I have this: http://www.gordonaudio.com/ after considering Millennia, Grace Designs, Forssell, GML, etc.
Perhaps, Grant Carpenter/Gordon Instruments can advise me on the suitability of using his mic amp as a tape repro head preamp.

If that's feasible, then it would be necessary to have the repro soundhead wired out. I don't know if my Studer tech in L.A., Charlie Bolois, would be interested. There may be someone local in San Diego whom would indulge me.

Thanks for the link ;)
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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Hi Roger,

I've actually spoken and exchanged e-mails with Jim, but the topic was Audio Precision audio analyzers :)


I have this: http://www.gordonaudio.com/ after considering Millennia, Grace Designs, Forssell, GML, etc.
Perhaps, Grant Carpenter/Gordon Instruments can advise me on the suitability of using his mic amp as a tape repro head preamp.

If that's feasible, then it would be necessary to have the repro soundhead wired out. I don't know if my Studer tech in L.A., Charlie Bolois, would be interested. There may be someone local in San Diego whom would indulge me.

Thanks for the link ;)

Hi Sam,

What I wanted to do was get a extra set of playback boards and have Jim do his upgrade on those. The boards were very late revisions and I couldn't find any....that ended that. Jim replaces the opamps and some caps,not many IIRC. In most cases audiophiles are only interested in playback only. The Studer definitely makes sense in that regard,so adding outboard electronics makes sense. My A820 the record side was pretty good,but the playback side was a disappointment to me.

If your looking to upgrade the Doshi or King seems the way to go and if I was choosing I would probably go with the tube preamp. I do't find a need for one as you know,as I have every flavor in my Ampexes,tube,solid state or nuvistor,that's just perfect for me.

I might add that I never liked the newer opamp designs. I think discrete or point to point is the only way to go. On the record side the simpler the better and low voltage(solid state). The playback side I think the transformer is the biggest sound influencer. You can get the best sound possible today or tomorrow....circuit,transformer,and components that are super low tolerence and low ppm.
 
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tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
In most cases audiophiles are only interested in playback only. The Studer definitely makes sense in that regard,so adding outboard electronics makes sense. My A820 the record side was pretty good,but the playback side was a disappointment to me.


Roger
A820 is with same mechanic of A80 but with same A810's electronic (lot of IC), so if you can get a pair repro board of A80 (+-12v power supply) from Ebay, try connect from head to see which stock sound is better
tony ma
 

Jazzbo

New Member
Aug 20, 2012
241
1
0
Atlanta, Georgia Area
As I all way say different systems and locations will not have the same result of changing one of the same equipment in there what you can do is try first, listen and judge by yourself, tube is the main thing of a tube amp but in big different quality making, even same brand in different year make too, they are microphonic can catch things from air, if the sensitivity to you system is not that important to them then you can keep on changing tubes till to get a quiet one to use
tony ma

Hello again Tony and you are so right. Tubes, interconnects, cables and location has lots to do with RFI and its impact on any music system. Since location is not easily changed, it's important to get the best tubes, cables and interconnects we can that will do the job. That's why I stayed tuned here. Between here and the Tape Project forum, I have gotten up and running with not too much hassle and I must give all the credit to forum members. What a great group of folk.

jazzbo Bob
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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Hi Sam,

What I wanted to do was get a extra set of playback boards and have Jim do his upgrade on those. The boards were very late revisions and I couldn't find any....that ended that. Jim replaces the opamps and some caps,not many IIRC.
Ah, I see. This is one of Jim's fortes.

In most cases audiophiles are only interested in playback only. The Studer definitely makes sense in that regard,so adding outboard electronics makes sense. My A820 the record side was pretty good,but the playback side was a disappointment to me.
At this time, I am not considering the record-side electronics.

If your looking to upgrade the Doshi or King seems the way to go and if I was choosing I would probably go with the tube preamp. I do't find a need for one as you know,as I have every flavor in my Ampexes,tube,solid state or nuvistor,that's just perfect for me.

I hope to hear Steve's Doshi in a few weeks :)
The Doshi Bruce has is so trick :D


I might add that I never liked the newer opamp designs. I think discrete or point to point is the only way to go. On the record side the simpler the better and low voltage(solid state). The playback side I think the transformer is the biggest sound influencer. You can get the best sound possible today or tomorrow....circuit,transformer,and components that are super low tolerence and low ppm.

Good advice, Roger :p
I'm using trafoless cards with the A-820's.
 

RogerD

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Sam,

At some point in my late life,after I get all my Ampexes done,I will find a nice A8O RC MkII and I think I can update those boards since they are discrete. Anyway all I need is one Studer....Ampex is another thing.:)

Now I have a MR70 headstack made for 350 electronics.....after I get that done I might say the hell with everything else.:D

Some might ask why....but I have yet to hear anything like my 350's.
 
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c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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Sam,

At some point in my late life,after I get all my Ampexes done,I will find a nice A8O RC MkII and I think I can update those boards since they are discrete. Anyway all I need is one Studer....Ampex is another thing.:)

Now I have a MR70 headstack made for 350 electronics.....after I get that done I might say the hell with everything else.:D

Some might ask why....but I have yet to hear anything like my 350's.

Roger,

I would love to hear your Ampexes...I'm certain it would be memorable :)

The Studer A80 RC MkII certainly has a reputation for fine sonics. Maybe, if I can swing it, I'll try to land a pair of these -- one 1/4" and one 1/2".

Presently, I require the capacity for easily changing between 1/4" and 1/2" headstacks, easily changing between IEC/IEC1/CCIR and IEC2/NAB EQ, easily changing between 15''/s and 30"/s tape speed, alignment for SM900 and ATR Magnetics stock, and the ability to record and playback 14" reels. I found my deck in the A-820. :D
 

RogerD

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Roger,

I would love to hear your Ampexes...I'm certain it would be memorable :)

The Studer A80 RC MkII certainly has a reputation for fine sonics. Maybe, if I can swing it, I'll try to land a pair of these -- one 1/4" and one 1/2".

Presently, I require the capacity for easily changing between 1/4" and 1/2" headstacks, easily changing between IEC/IEC1/CCIR and IEC2/NAB EQ, easily changing between 15''/s and 30"/s tape speed, alignment for SM900 and ATR Magnetics stock, and the ability to record and playback 14" reels. I found my deck in the A-820. :D

Sam,

There is nothing like a Ampex circuit when properly upgraded,that is the 350 & 440 so far. I have yet to hear my MR70 upgrade yet. If it is possible to mate the 440 rev B electronics to a Ampex 102 or 104 and use my 440 cards that machine I think would be a stunner. Of course when I can pick up a 440 DC servo that will play up to 30ips for 500 or less and upgrade the cards for 1200 it's kinda foolish for me not to. The 440 will easily play 1/4 or 1/2 with just a head stack change. A Ampex transport is not a Studer transport,but the Studer electronics are not Ampex either. Trade offs just depends how important the tape handling is.....and it's very important. But I use the record side as audio preamps so for me,it works out well.

I have been at this for 3 years and I think I have taken my experiments about as far as they can be improved. My 440's are done,the 350's I might make one last change,MR70 i think will be cut and dry. I am hoping to post some videos soon.....I'll call them Ampex on Ampex,just because a lot of great sounding classics where done on Ampex recorders.
 
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c1ferrari

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Hi Roger,

Upon purchase of my first A820 from Oasis Mastering, Eddy Schreyer -- owner and chief engineer -- described the Studer A820 as smooth.
Eddy also offered me an Ampex ATR-102, which was described as punchy. I could take either one, but he wanted to maintain one for the studio.

Later, I had an opportunity to listen to master tape on an ATR-102. It sounded great on the program material...Lindsey Buckingham. During that session, I developed a nascent understanding why some ATR's aren't renown for tape handling.

Have you ruminated about using your Studer as a transport with your Ampex electronics :confused:
 

RogerD

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Hi Roger,

Upon purchase of my first A820 from Oasis Mastering, Eddy Schreyer -- owner and chief engineer -- described the Studer A820 as smooth.
Eddy also offered me an Ampex ATR-102, which was described as punchy. I could take either one, but he wanted to maintain one for the studio.

Later, I had an opportunity to listen to master tape on an ATR-102. It sounded great on the program material...Lindsey Buckingham. During that session, I developed a nascent understanding why some ATR's aren't renown for tape handling.

Have you ruminated about using your Studer as a transport with your Ampex electronics :confused:

Hi Sam,

That would require custom heads as I understand it. The problem is the cost get's to the point that you might as well go the outboard playback electronics route, but then you don't address the record side. The RE that ran Chesky records mated a C37 to a pair of MR70 electronics. While that solution sounds highly interesting, I think it's a novelty.

I listened to the record side of my A820 MkII and I could live with it,though it doesn't come close now to my 440 after my changes. Below is a photo of a A80 repro board. I'll take look at the component breakdown and see what can be done. Unlike the 440 boards,there is very little room between the boards and with out height that makes it almost impossible to use the kind of electrolytics and film caps that I think it needs. The replacement of the resistors would be a improvement and if the values are low enough on the caps maybe using silver micas would improve it too. It looks like the 1:10 transformer must stay. All in all being discrete is a plus. The board though looks to be a single layer,not a bad thing but it would be better if it was a double layer. I can see why most serious users that want better sound make and design there own electronics. Tony Ma I'm sure could fill us in on upgrading the stock A80 boards.

Sam those are Wima MKP's .01uf if my eyes are correct....those gotta go. I think you could squeeze in some high quality films and then you would be at a high level. Those carbon resistors the same thing.



 
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tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
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Roger
the picture show is the A80VU repro and miss the EQ unit, not the same as A80RC repro, which has the output unit in the same board,also has more gain design so no need input transformer and they can't be replaced directly to each other, IMO A80RC is better sound but A80VU is more easy to use (NAB vs CCIR), about the input transformer, Studer show nothing of impedance only 1 to 10 ratio I took it off but still can't measure it out, so my transformer producer made me a copper simple in multi sec out to see which one sound better ( matching head) and then to make the silver wound one
tony ma
 

RogerD

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Sam,

Ruminate well here are my thoughts. Unless you are a designer and engineer and build these electronics and therefore should have a good idea on how the electronics should sound,most just record and listen through the playback side. I actually listen to the record side directly,not colored by the tape or the playback side. Since most tape record & playback electronics share the same OEM components,I can have a pretty good idea of how things will sound with changes that are made. I have a esoteric method but I think it works well.
 

RogerD

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Roger
the picture show is the A80VU repro and miss the EQ unit, not the same as A80RC repro, which has the output unit in the same board,also has more gain design so no need input transformer and they can't be replaced directly to each other, IMO A80RC is better sound but A80VU is more easy to use (NAB vs CCIR), about the input transformer, Studer show nothing of impedance only 1 to 10 ratio I took it off but still can't measure it out, so my transformer producer made me a copper simple in multi sec out to see which one sound better ( matching head) and then to make the silver wound one
tony ma

Tony IIRC your silver wire transformers and electronics are outboard. Did you ever try to upgrade the stock boards and keep the stock format?
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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Hi Sam,

That would require custom heads as I understand it. The problem is the cost get's to the point that you might as well go the outboard playback electronics route, but then you don't address the record side. The RE that ran Chesky records mated a C37 to a pair of MR70 electronics. While that solution sounds highly interesting, I think it's a novelty.

I listened to the record side of my A820 MkII and I could live with it,though it doesn't come close now to my 440 after my changes. Below is a photo of a A80 repro board. I'll take look at the component breakdown and see what can be done. Unlike the 440 boards,there is very little room between the boards and with out height that makes it almost impossible to use the kind of electrolytics and film caps that I think it needs. The replacement of the resistors would be a improvement and if the values are low enough on the caps maybe using silver micas would improve it too. It looks like the 1:10 transformer must stay. All in all being discrete is a plus. The board though looks to be a single layer,not a bad thing but it would be better if it was a double layer. I can see why most serious users that want better sound make and design there own electronics. Tony Ma I'm sure could fill us in on upgrading the stock A80 boards.

Sam those are Wima MKP's .01uf if my eyes are correct....those gotta go. I think you could squeeze in some high quality films and then you would be at a high level. Those carbon resistors the same thing.




Thanks, Roger:b

There are people all over the world offering mods to Studer tape deck electronics, i.e. cards, and their efforts are sincere.
Should I travel that route I would obtain multiple cards, so I could substitute the factory stock original electronics and consider it the ultimate control variable.
It would serve, as well, as my reference for the stock Studer sound for the A820.

Should I proceed along the external repro head preamp route, I would ensure it would be engineered for optimal performance with various repro heads -- whether 318-series Studer heads, 317-series repro heads, or offerings from Flux Magnetics. This implies the absolute necessity, I believe, to tailor the tape head preamp to the characteristics of the specific repro head currently -lol- in the circuit. I would imagine if one wanted a stepped, external tape head preamp that would escalate cost.

I need to visit Bruce, again, and hear his rig :cool:
 

Bruce B

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Apr 25, 2010
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Thanks, Roger:b

There are people all over the world offering mods to Studer tape deck electronics, i.e. cards, and their efforts are sincere.
Should I travel that route I would obtain multiple cards, so I could substitute the factory stock original electronics and consider it the ultimate control variable.
It would serve, as well, as my reference for the stock Studer sound for the A820.

Should I proceed along the external repro head preamp route, I would ensure it would be engineered for optimal performance with various repro heads -- whether 318-series Studer heads, 317-series repro heads, or offerings from Flux Magnetics. This implies the absolute necessity, I believe, to tailor the tape head preamp to the characteristics of the specific repro head currently -lol- in the circuit. I would imagine if one wanted a stepped, external tape head preamp that would escalate cost.

I need to visit Bruce, again, and hear his rig :cool:

You sure do!
 

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