Tripoint troy signature grounding device

http://audioexotics.hk/index.php?searchword=Tripoint&ordering=&searchphrase=all&option=com_search


BruceD

rockitman said:

+1. I still can't understand why you need to pay $4000 per silver tellus grounding cable times the number of components you need to ground. How can a non signal carrying wire matter if it's silver or decent quality copper ?

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Maybe we can find out. Several persons watching this thread have PMed me; if I can get valid measurements, maybe we will see.

Good luck w/measurements. I went into my demo on grounding firmly skeptical, arms tightly folded. Just how could a PASSIVE box, not in series, but in PARALLEL w/the system, make ANY difference? Balanced power, yes, power cords, yes, both "feed" the system, but grounding, surely not? Two tracks in, I was a total convert, and I have to tell you I reject more than half the stuff I hear in my system.
Interestingly, having lived with grounding in my system for 6 months continuously, I had a listening session w/WBF stalwart Bonzo75, who asked me to disconnect it. Cold fear gripped me (not really, but maybe a little chill!) - was I going to be caught out as having been fooled into stumping up £3.5k for nothing more than Snake Oil? No. Removing the Entreq grounding caused the soundstage to shrink and become ragged, and a shrillness entered the audioscape esp on strings. Bonzo75, who'd not experienced grounding before noticed this even more than me.
So the effects do exist. The qs are - can they be measured objectively? Is it the rebalancing of impedances across components that is the cause, or something else? How can something alongside, not "in" the system be so significant? Is it working more at stopping mains-borne gremlins flowing into the system, or gremlins produced by the components themselves?

FWIW none of the measurements I want are on the grounding system itself. They are all on the electronics.

That makes sense. If grounding is balancing impedances and/or draining away emi/rfi, it will be optimising the electrical performance of components, and this should be measurable.

^^What I am looking for, the equipment won't even be on.

You're losing me now .

I have responded to your request, for offers of doing these measurements.
You have not responded privately, or publicly, about what these measurements are.
Do you wish for some of us to try it, or not?

^^ I'm not interested in how the Tripoint or similar devices work. I am satisfied that the owners are hearing something real. The question is why, and I suspect it has something to do with the equipment in their various systems, which involves some simple resistance measurements that can only be done with the various equipment unplugged.

Hello catcando, I responed to your PM yesterday. You did not receive it?

^^ OK. I checked my system and it does not show a saved PM to you either so I sent it again.

spiritofmusic said:

I believe in Asia there are a fair number of users employing Troy grounding on the chassis side AND Entreq grounding on the signal side. Maybe Lloyd is going to be our man over here doing the same.

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So I have received a 2nd Entreq Atlantis grounding cables

I installed them as follows:
- Tripoint Troy grounding everything.
- 3 Tripoint standard grounding cables to the chassis of 3 Zanden boxes.
- 1 Tripoint Standard grounding cable to the RCA input of the back of the CJ (grounding signal).
- All 4 Tripoint cables are all on 1 of the 3 binding posts on the back of the Troy.
- 2 Entreq Atlantis grounding cables are on the RCA jacks of the CJ and Zanden (so both are grounding signal again).
- Because 1 end of an Entreq Atlantis cable actually splits into 2 cables the end that goes to the grounding box, I have separated those split ends across the other 2 binding posts on the back of the Troy. This increased clarity.

Observations:
1. I am 90% sure to be keeping these 2 Atlantis cables and this specific configuration. Will go thru the weekend to listen more in the background while working.

2. If anyone decides to play around with this and ends up grounding 2 different RCA jacks on the back of one unit (ie, grounding the signal twice)...make sure to put both grounding cables on the same channel. I had them placed on different channels (left and right)...and it blurred in comparison for some reason. no idea why.

3. You are NOT supposed to use different cables to ground signal on same unit (I am)...but for some reason, removing the Tripoint grounding cable from the CJ reduces absolute clarity. Removing the Entreq Atlantis cable from the CJ removes extraordinary levels of 'timing details' which, in deep house/electronic music, are HUGELY important.

4. By the way, on the back of the Troy, since each Entreq Atlantis cable splits into 2 cables on the end that goes to the grounding box, I placed the 2 ends either towards the front of each binding post or the back of each binding post...the reason is because I am using 2 Entreq Atlantis cables so there are FOUR ends for the 2 binding posts. And I found that putting ONE CABLE's 2 ends towards the back of the binding post, and putting the SECOND CABLE's two ends towards the front of the binding post...actually makes a difference. Do NOT alternate front/back in my experience. (And definitely take the split ends of 1 Entreq Atlantis cable and put them on 2 different binding posts if you can...it improves clarity.)

5. Grounding chassis and grounding signal (thru RCA jacks) ARE additive...no idea why. Grounding more chassis units did not change past a certain point...but then grounding the signal thru the RCA jacks moved things forward a LOT again.

Overall, what do I hear?

- Tripoint grounding cables are still unmatched in absolute clarity. A bit of a higher-end spectrum balance
- Entreq Atlantis Cables are more mid-weighted and when combined actually bring the tonal balance down...a personal flavor thing. But where they are far superior is the timing thing and BEATS. Entreq Atlantis cables do BEATS like no body's business. Its like watching a bunch of great talented street dancers in a club do their thing...and then comparing to professionals who actually do music video choreography. (I have witnessed this personally). Same moves, same timing...but there is something so SHARP about the pros, every slide, every move is just that shade more perfect and it makes a BIG difference in the final presentation.

When I play electronic deep house, all of those random noises, clicks, (sounds of ocean waves in the background, LP static or whatever)...I realized for the first time in listening to them for over 3 years...that those waves, bits of teeny "LP static" noises are actually ALL placed there in an incredibly complicated syncopated rhythm to the main driving beat. Sometimes the 'random noises' even play off of each other. I honestly can say I NEVER noticed it before. MORE IMPORTANTLY, I can also confirm when I UNDO this specific cabling set up, or even switch the cables...I can no longer hear these subtle little syncopated rhythms. Its gone. The ocean waves, LP static noises, etc are ALL still there, but they are just random noises in the background.

I suddenly appreciate how much more thought has gone into this music than I ever could hear before.

Again, on the back of the Troy, since each Atlantis cable splits into 2 cables on the end that goes to the grounding box, you need to place the 2 ends either towards the front of each binding post or the back of each binding post...the reason is because I am using 2 Atlantis cables so there are FOUR ends for the 2 binding posts. And I found that putting ONE CABLE's 2 ends towards the back of the binding post, and putting the SECOND CABLE's two ends towards the front of the binding post...actually is better than alternating and having 1 split end on the front and the other split end on the back. Do NOT alternate front/back in my experience.

Also taking the split ends of the Entreq Atlantis cable and placing each split end on a different binding post IS clearer.

...alternating even these stupid little things made a difference which honestly makes almost no sense to me. A connection should just be a connection. But for some reason, I suppose the quality/consistency of the physical contact (to the front of binding post or back of binding post)...apparently makes a difference again. Is it like when people say a quality plug grips the outlet better? No idea.

What changes occurs between alternating front/back or having the same front/back? Specifically, in this super-subtle timing thing, being consistent makes it apparent that all these 'random' electronic noises are not random at all.

a question for Audiocrack. you mentioned the following in message #25:

Audiocrack said:

I also connected the Lyra phonostage (same binding post as for the preamp) but somehow that did not work out well. An explanation might be that using the top of the line Tripoint Thor cable for the preamp and a 'regular' but different cable for the phono stage created some sort of mismatch. Apparently you need to experiment and let your ears be the judge. I have seen people hook up till 9 components to the Troy. I am right now so much enjoying my system that for the time being I leave as it is. But I definately going to experiment more in the future .

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have you done any further experiments grounding the Lyra phonostage (or does it remain disconnected from your Tripoint)?

is it a case where grounding works very well with certain components, but are marginal or perhaps even subtractive with others?
appreciate your (as well as other owner's) thoughts on this. thanks.

Flat6, I have some experience of this. Initially I tried an Apollo ground lead to my Tom Evans phono stage. Not good, clouded issues. But great to cdp, monos, as well as the initial preamp install. Months later I changed my cart to the Soundsmith Straingauge, and reluctantly tried a lead to the energizer box. Amazingly, now things impvd.
What I've gathered from the UK distributor, is that impvts won't be across the board, and will be component/system/mains dependent. What does seem consistent is that a single ground lead to the preamp will prob bring the biggest and/or only improvement, and this should be the start of any experimentation. And even if you stop here, your WHOLE system will have benefitted. But go on if you have the patience/curiosity/cash.

hi spiritofmusic & Audiocrack, thank you for your detailed replies.
I do own the Lyra Connoisseur line & phono stages & hv recently ordered a "plain Jane" Tripoint Troy Sig., so your feedback / clarification is especially meaningful for me. thanks.

I gather from this lengthy thread, that many owners of such grounding devices connect them in priority of the audio signal path (ie. preamp 1st, amps 2nd, source components 3rd, etc.). this certainly makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if it'd be more logical to go after the "EMI/RFI culprits" (eg. music servers & components with switched-mode power supplies), & components with weak grounding first. anyone experimented?

Audiocrack said:

Btw, Miguel is about to unleash his best work to date: the emperor. This grounding device will be much larger and much heavier than the Troy signature. Have not heard it myself but I am sure this will be an extraordinary piece of equipment. Would love to insert the emperor in one of my systems! However, I am very happy with the Troy signature and hope to use this device for many years to come.

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the rabbit hole gets deeper...

Hi Flat6,

For me, a significant improvement came by adding a grounding cable to the RCA inputs of the CJ and Zanden. (Source is more important here in my system, but both really benefit.) BTW, signal is how Entreq generally ground (ie, RCA inputs)...Tripoint tends to ground chassis screws. I have spoken with Miguel at Tripoint about this, and he supports the concept.

As for blending cables, I can say I found that blending cables is more than tricky business. I found in various iterations that putting 2 different cables on 1 binding post or 1 component (RCA input and chassis screw) blurred things...different metals or something. Connecting different cables to the same binding post I think has a more negative affect than different cables on DIFFERENT binding posts connected to the same component.

Specifically, I ultimately found benefit from adding 1 Entreq Atlantis grounding cable to each signal ground (CJ/Zanden RCA) and connecting them to separate binding posts on my Tripoint. All Tripoint grounding cables attach to the OTHER binding post on the Tripoint. I have to assume as a system, all grounding cables are still in fact connected...but neverthless, this provided me with the maximum improvement in the bass which I was looking for from Entreq...and maintained extremely high clarity...much higher than I have ever had in my system.

hi LL21,

I presume your "Zanden 4-box digital" comprises a CD transport, a DAC, & 2 respective power supplies?
are improvements fairly noticeable when you ground all 4 boxes (vs. just the transport & DAC)?

has anyone connected other non-signal path items (eg. turntable motors, motor controllers, active vibration-isolation platforms, outboard power supplies, etc.) to such grounding devices & noticed changes?

flat6 said:

hi LL21,

I presume your "Zanden 4-box digital" comprises a CD transport, a DAC, & 2 respective power supplies?
are improvements fairly noticeable when you ground all 4 boxes (vs. just the transport & DAC)?

has anyone connected other non-signal path items (eg. turntable motors, motor controllers, active vibration-isolation platforms, outboard power supplies, etc.) to such grounding devices & noticed changes?

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Hi...that is correct. The DAC and Transport each have their own separate power supply. (In fact, the Transport powersupply apparently has 5 power supplies inside, one for each part of the transport (display, laser assembly/spinner, chips, etc). I am usually methodical about my equipment, but I admit in this case, I did NOT put on 1 ground wire at a time. I just loaded it up on Source and Preamp because that's all I could do (amp has no external screws), and the Troy plugs into the power conditioner as ground as well...so that was all that's left to ground. All I can say, as Audiocrack and Spirit will confirm, is that it works and well.

So Lloyd, do we now refer to you as the mad professor? It's a shame your findings are not going to be replicated by many others if any, since you may be the only person here who's running Troy and Entreq in parallel. But interesting to see your mix'n'match ideas are bearing fruit. Further evidence that grounding may be the final frontier in system enhancement.