Magico introduced the Q series subwoofers
- Thread starter Roysen
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I thought QSub had 2 woofers firing in opposite directions to help cancel out some of the internal vibrations? Plus internal amp and electronic crossover?
Ok, a 110 is not what I was referring to. I have used two f-113 on each channel stacked on top of each other using JL's new electronic xover and matching device.
Just because you feel a little vibration doesn't mean there is a problem Sir.
I am not saying that the Magico device is wrong or bad but probably a lot of overkill.
Woofers for music should be used in pairs number one and when you use them in a line source configuration ( stacking them) they are many times better. The sound stage gets bigger and deeper, the rooms will disappear and the bass is tighter and goes lower.
Im sure if you used 4 of theirs it would work as well .
My solution is under 20 k and is drop dead amazing.
That was my point.
I am not sold on the Aluminum BS and have heard speakers made of many materials that work well,
When they make a Stradivarius or a Les Paul out of Aluminum and it sounds great then maybe I will drink the coolaid
Very interesting response. I'm not selling anything nor do I like Kool-Aid.
Aluminum is certainly not the only solution for a good speaker enclosure, but consider this: The wooden body of the Stradivarius instrument in fact resonates creating just the sound many of us so admire. A mechanical device like a serious loudspeaker, is an entirely different thing. It is designed to accurately reproduce the sounds embedded in a recording. Ideally, I would prefer that the loudspeaker not add its own colorations to the sounds it is trying to reproduce. Transparency to the recording depends on low distortion. Cabinet vibration causes distortion and makes it less likely that the speaker will accurately reproduce the sound of the Stradivarius.
All cabinets have vibrations and a Q point. Aluminum is just different than acrylic or wood. I for one can not tell you that just because it seems it has less that it sounds better particularly on frequencies below 60 hertz.
The room has much mor eto do with low frequency response than a vibration in a cabinet.
The main problem is that all devices have their own distortions and we do not know how to properly correlate measurements with sound quality. Simple parameters based in RMS figures are not enough. As far as I know Goldmund were the first to use aluminum boxes with complex dual metal bracing to damp its intrinsic resonances, and in the 80's there were some debates on the subject in European audio magazines. Unfortunately it was before the internet, and they are not easy to find and consult.
I am not buying such expensive subs, and have not listened to them in adequate systems, so my two cent opinions on subs is based in my analysis of other people reviews and reports, and should be considered as just my poorly supported opinion. But when I read that some people consider that IB are the best sounding existing subwoofers, I can not avoid thinking that these houses are not built with aluminum slabs, and most of them have wood floors.
BTW, the best sub I have listened to was by far the Hartley 24" used in a Mark Levinson HQD system. It was fabulous, but each sub weighted more than 300 kg with a volume of 500 liter.
Aluminum is not just different, it is indeed, if implemented right, a MUCH better material to use, in particular for bass enclosure. It is really simple math, your ears can tell you what you want to hear, that does not change the laws of physics. You will have to excuse me, I am not about to enter a debate about that, you sound like a guy who will dismiss global warming, if he sees fit
I am no techie, but going back 20 years in my own personal systems, whenever I found a way to lessen cabinet vibrations, I generally liked what I heard. Greater signal density/strength is what I recall hearing the very first time I did it with my Celestion SL6si's. The same has applied to my X1s and Velodyne.
Does a solid aluminium cabinet help reduce vibrations because of its inherent ability to resist the internal pressures of the sub better than other materials? Intuitively, I could imagine the answer is yes (and at significantly greater cost)...but I equally suspect the end result is still about the overall design/implementation (NOT simply using aluminum) because I presume those pressures internal to the box also have to be managed inside (even if they are not surfacing outside the box thru the aluminum) so that they do not interfere with internal amp, cone movements, which are probably all vibration sensitive, etc...
Does a solid aluminium cabinet help reduce vibrations because of its inherent ability to resist the internal pressures of the sub better than other materials? Intuitively, I could imagine the answer is yes (and at significantly greater cost)...but I equally suspect the end result is still about the overall design/implementation (NOT simply using aluminum) because I presume those pressures internal to the box also have to be managed inside (even if they are not surfacing outside the box thru the aluminum) so that they do not interfere with internal amp, cone movements, which are probably all vibration sensitive, etc...
That sub is waaaay too cheap, the way it looks! But it needs a "Q" main speaker to shine in all its glory ;-)
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I wonder if they sell many of these Qsubs. Perhaps they should introduce an "S" sub of slightly lower quality to mate with their S line of speakers. I can see a curved aluminum tube enclosure like the one on the Ultimate 3 horn speaker.
It would cost too much money to develop another sub driver for a S series... and all of this to build something not as good as Q-sub
I heard they sell pretty well... Maybe because they sound pretty well
The S5 looks so small compared to the sub on the pic!
It would cost too much money to develop another sub driver for a S series... and all of this to build something not as good as Q-sub
I heard they sell pretty well... Maybe because they sound pretty well
The S5 looks so small compared to the sub on the pic!
True! But then I have never been a fan of the S-series looks. Prefer any "Q-design" look. Like everything...a taste thing.
I'm no techie, but I do find it curious that with the Q18, the edge of the cone is beyond the edge of the cabinet...whereas in the Q15, the edge of the cone seems to be well behind the edge of the cabinet, and in fact you can see where they have carefully shaped the edge around the Q15 cone...why the difference?
I can only comment from what i see , but i suspect the larger cone has a substantially longer excursion than the smaller sub , the much longer /larger rubber surround with which the cone is connected to the unitframe allows that , with such a large rubber surround one would need a very thick alu alloy front plate to have it not sticking out
What magico does is sandwiching the cone between a front and a backplate so removing the need for a bolted unit in the frontplate , the designer likes a smooth front of the speaker no holes and screws ideally , in the S 5 that was probably not possible due to the thinner housing 14 mm iirc, the S 5 is built to a certain pricepoint probably
What magico does is sandwiching the cone between a front and a backplate so removing the need for a bolted unit in the frontplate , the designer likes a smooth front of the speaker no holes and screws ideally , in the S 5 that was probably not possible due to the thinner housing 14 mm iirc, the S 5 is built to a certain pricepoint probably
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The odds that this sub will beat multi-driver DIY subwoofers made by guys in the DIY forums is ZERO. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know any better. I owned JL Audio Fathom 212's until recently, and even those are simply wimpy compared to what I was able to produce form DIY subs coupled with great amplification.
I don't doubt that the Magico's sound good, but their output claims are kinda suspicious and certainly equivalent or better overall bass can easily be had a for a fraction of the asking price.
Don't forget that one or two of those subs will be UNLIKELY to be enough to get a linear in-room response. Anyone that can afford these and want "the best" possible sound should but at least three to four of these in order to get in the right ballpark.
I don't doubt that the Magico's sound good, but their output claims are kinda suspicious and certainly equivalent or better overall bass can easily be had a for a fraction of the asking price.
Don't forget that one or two of those subs will be UNLIKELY to be enough to get a linear in-room response. Anyone that can afford these and want "the best" possible sound should but at least three to four of these in order to get in the right ballpark.
Aluminum is not just different, it is indeed, if implemented right, a MUCH better material to use, in particular for bass enclosure. It is really simple math, your ears can tell you what you want to hear, that does not change the laws of physics. You will have to excuse me, I am not about to enter a debate about that, you sound like a guy who will dismiss global warming, if he sees fit
If we are talking about producing a sufficiently rigid structure for subwoofers, there is no reason to stop at aluminum... some of us in the DIY crowd simply create a custom concrete form around our enclosure... problem solved for vastly less money.
I would be really impressed if the rooms that this type of speaker are used in are sufficiently "bolted down" so as not to have vibrations form the bass rattling things.
I am with Blazar on this. Nothing against Magico, I am fan after all
For the cash outlay these Q woofers represent, one can do better with more subs.. There are some excellent commercial subs out there ... A quatuor (4) of JL Fathom 212 is about the price of one of the Q15, the law of physics are in favor of more subs'l I will concede that the DIY route is not for every one but it can/will lead to superior results.
This is a fact: while there are chances that one (1) sub can/will improve things, the odds of this being optimal are very small. One usually needs more than 2 subs for smooth in-room bass response.. So far we, audiophiles are adverse to that notion... of multiple subs but things are changing.
Funny I was also thinking about concrete enclosure as well... I know that my subs will be either DIY or likely HIDFY (Have It Done For You) or Mark Seaton's Submersives, they won't be concrete
Welcome Blazar!
For the cash outlay these Q woofers represent, one can do better with more subs.. There are some excellent commercial subs out there ... A quatuor (4) of JL Fathom 212 is about the price of one of the Q15, the law of physics are in favor of more subs'l I will concede that the DIY route is not for every one but it can/will lead to superior results.
This is a fact: while there are chances that one (1) sub can/will improve things, the odds of this being optimal are very small. One usually needs more than 2 subs for smooth in-room bass response.. So far we, audiophiles are adverse to that notion... of multiple subs but things are changing.
Funny I was also thinking about concrete enclosure as well... I know that my subs will be either DIY or likely HIDFY (Have It Done For You) or Mark Seaton's Submersives, they won't be concrete
Welcome Blazar!
Could you post a photo of one of your concrete subs? What size is the driver and how do you amplify it? And finally, how heavy is such a beast? Thanks.
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