Bass Tightening

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Are these better?

Jay

Jay,
They do not look nice ... You have to find where the ringing at 70 Hz is coming from - it is surely affecting your bass. Can you post the decay time analysis? Another possibility is making the raw REW measurement file available on the net, so that we could download it.
 

Ethan Winer

Banned
Jul 8, 2010
1,231
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0
75
New Milford, CT
Are these better?

Yes, though the waterfall still shows more dB range vertically than I prefer, and it would be good to see what happens up to 300 Hz. But between this and your previous waterfall, it's clear enough to see what's going on. I don't need the original REW file to know what to suggest.

I agree that the peak at 70 Hz is probably noise or hum. You can tell because it doesn't decay as do all the other peaks. A non-decaying peak is also common at 60 Hz or 120 Hz, due to AC mains hum.

That said, you will definitely benefit from bass traps. Those two deep nulls are robbing much of the low end you'd otherwise hear. And the ringing peaks are equally damaging. I'm also concerned that frequencies between 35 Hz and 70 Hz seem too soft compared to the rest of the range. What speakers do you have, and what is their spec'd response?

--Ethan
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
What would be the best economical way to just tighten up the bass in my room using some type of treatments???
The room is 13.5X16X8 I sit 11' from the speakers and there is no back wall. The back of the room opens up to a hallway, bar, and kitchen.
Speakers are in the front corners they are corner horns, so no options to move other than I can toe them in or out a little because of the backs being closed in. Everything sounds good I was just thinking I would like to tighten the bass if I could using some type of treatments... The coffee table is gone!!!

Jay

Yes, though the waterfall still shows more dB range vertically than I prefer, and it would be good to see what happens up to 300 Hz. But between this and your previous waterfall, it's clear enough to see what's going on. I don't need the original REW file to know what to suggest.

I agree that the peak at 70 Hz is probably noise or hum. You can tell because it doesn't decay as do all the other peaks. A non-decaying peak is also common at 60 Hz or 120 Hz, due to AC mains hum.

That said, you will definitely benefit from bass traps. Those two deep nulls are robbing much of the low end you'd otherwise hear. And the ringing peaks are equally damaging. I'm also concerned that frequencies between 35 Hz and 70 Hz seem too soft compared to the rest of the range.
What speakers do you have, and what is their spec'd response?

--Ethan

Ethan, from the picture (attachment) of Jay's first original post they look like Klipschorn speakers (corner horn type).



=> http://www.klipsch.com/klipschorn-floorstanding-speaker
 
Last edited:

jcmusic

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2010
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Just Outside New Orleans, La.
Ethan,
The speakers started life as Klipsch Corner Horns, the only thing Klipsch now is the cabinets and 15" woofers. Everything else has been upgraded, the mid horns are now wooden with a full tractrix flare 2". The mid drivers are 2" BMS, the tweeters are APT 200's 90*X90* horn. The xovers are crossed at 400hz and 6000hz. I think the specs are from 35hz-22,000hz. The coffee table is gone!!!
Ethan this is the room today and pretty much everyday...
 

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microstrip

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Hi I think the ringing may be the refrigerator, tell how to post the raw file I am not sure about that...

Does your refrigerator generate a 85dB noise at 70 Hz in your listening room? In order to allow others to get your raw file you have to download it an a site such as dropbox www.dropbox.com/? and post the address.

Do you care about the esthetics of the room? I ask because some people (like me) would never consider filling the room with acoustic panels and ask for some discrete surgical treatment.
 

Ethan Winer

Banned
Jul 8, 2010
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Ethan this is the room today and pretty much everyday...

You'd benefit greatly not only from bass traps, but also absorber panels on stands at the left and right side-wall reflection points. (Though if you can move the shelves out of the way, panels could go on the side walls directly.)

--Ethan
 

jcmusic

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2010
400
6
925
Just Outside New Orleans, La.
Ethan,
The shelves can not be moved that is all there is to it, I will have to work around what i have in the room as it is... I tried to build a dedicated room but the parish gave me so much static they made it impossible so I gave up. The room i have is all I have so from there is where I go...
You'd benefit greatly not only from bass traps, but also absorber panels on stands at the left and right side-wall reflection points. (Though if you can move the shelves out of the way, panels could go on the side walls directly.)

--Ethan
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
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435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Methinks that your two side-wall shelves are acting as sound absorbers already (albums, books).

And Ethan can tell you which are the best positioning spots in your own room, as it is now without changing anything dramatically, for few bass traps.
That would be the best for your particular situation, I think; and Ethan is the experienced acoustician expert.
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
590
4
330
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Absolutely the first thing to do is to take some room acoustic measurements and analyze them to determine where your issues are. It is impossible to generically tell you how good or bad your room is without acoustic measurements, especially because your room is not rectangular and is more open plan. Once you have taken acoustic measurements then you are in a position to determine what the root causes of each acoustical issue are. From root cause you can identify the solution and select one that meets your practical, aesthetic and budgetary needs.

For example if you are primarily concerned with the bass then generally the issues are caused by room modes and the 'levers' we have to change that are: speaker position, listener position, acoustic treatment and EQ. Depending on where your bass issues are most moderately priced commercially available bass traps may be wholly ineffective when deployed in small quantities. In you room you may also have speaker boundary interference peaks and dips to worry about.

If you do not have patience to learn how to take and interpret acoustic measurements using REW you might want to use a simpler tool such as XTZ Room Analyzer which gives you usable graphs right out of the gate without need to configure scales, use loopbacks, etc. Particularly in the bass region XTZ is probably the easiest tool there is to work with as the key information - frequency response, time decay and the effect of EQ is all on the same page in the software.

XTZ screenshot:

Capture.jpg
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
590
4
330
SF Bay Area, CA, USA

Ethan Winer

Banned
Jul 8, 2010
1,231
3
0
75
New Milford, CT
Can they go above the shelves on the wall??? Will they tighten the bass???

Reflection absorbers go at reflection points which are at ear level, and bass traps go (mostly) in corners. If I didn't link it before, this short article explains the basics in the fewest number of words :D:

Acoustic Basics

It's mainly about home recording, but all the same principles apply to hi-fi and home theater too.

I'll add that a shelf full of records is not useful acoustically. Carpet and soft furniture can help, though they're not as good as real acoustic treatment. But any absorption from LPs in their jackets is minimal and not very broadband.

--Ethan
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
590
4
330
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Nyal,
You are the expert I am the one who needs help, you need to tell me what the issues are and how to fix them...

There are two ways you can go about improving your room acoustics. The first is to partner with a professional to get you to where you want to be, the second is to get yourself to where you want to be. Acoustics is a complex field but I have given you the outline of the thought process you need to use to get you to where you want to be.

If you have bass issues then:
- what frequency are they at?
- how bad are they (deviation from flatness, shape - are they high or low Q, do they have associated ringing in the time domain/waterfall)?
- what are the root causes of them?
- what solutions are there to fix them?
- which solution is best for me?
 

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