Why would I consider this? I do not use a sub, I am also not familiar with this equipment...
Bass Tightening
- Thread starter jcmusic
- Start date
Sub or no sub it still works the same. ...I just mentioned it because short of acoustical room treatments it is still a great alternative/complement, IMO.
There are other brands too: Room Perfect, ARC, ... but I still like Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Pro.
I won't go into it here, but you're free to google around.
Bass traps.
OK. Bass traps are a good recommendation as are the various REQs mentioned. I must add that all of these, unless built into something that you already use, will require additional A/D/A conversions since they are all digital. There are all-analog solutions at http://www.rivesaudio.com/PARC/PARCframe.html
Thanks Kal,
I am pretty sure I am just gonna measure with REW and treat with bass traps to start and go from there!!!
I am pretty sure I am just gonna measure with REW and treat with bass traps to start and go from there!!!
Hello, jcmusic. My suggestion(s) do not specifically answer your direct question but I thought I'd throw this out there for you anyway. You had mentioned the tightening up of the bass and unless I simply can not see it from the picture provided, I do not see any isolation from underneath the speakers them self. Perhaps spiking the speakers might be an economical advantage to help with this. I can't tell if the rack itself is isolated as well, or if you have any isolation between the rack and your tube amplifier. All of these things will help to tighten up the bass, if you haven't done this already.
Another thing I'd like to add for economical bass tightening would be to check all power and signal connections, including the tube pins. I would even go so far as to check and clean the fuse connections as well. Tighten or repair where needed and it never hurts to go ahead and clean any and all connections while you are at it using something like Caig DeOxit. Please forgive me if these kinds of things have already been addressed. I just thought I would throw it out there because of your mentioning these key words; economical and bass tightening. FWIW.
Tom
Another thing I'd like to add for economical bass tightening would be to check all power and signal connections, including the tube pins. I would even go so far as to check and clean the fuse connections as well. Tighten or repair where needed and it never hurts to go ahead and clean any and all connections while you are at it using something like Caig DeOxit. Please forgive me if these kinds of things have already been addressed. I just thought I would throw it out there because of your mentioning these key words; economical and bass tightening. FWIW.
Tom
Tom,
Thanks for chimming in brother, I do not have any isolation under the speakers. They weigh almost 200LBS. so I never really thought about doing anything with them. The rack is completely isolated all of the shelves are floating on 3 air bladders under a 50LBS. steel plate under the TT. I have the sound I like I was just thinking if the bass was a tad tighter it would be great!!! I am sure the room could stand some treatment to help this...
Thanks for chimming in brother, I do not have any isolation under the speakers. They weigh almost 200LBS. so I never really thought about doing anything with them. The rack is completely isolated all of the shelves are floating on 3 air bladders under a 50LBS. steel plate under the TT. I have the sound I like I was just thinking if the bass was a tad tighter it would be great!!! I am sure the room could stand some treatment to help this...
Ok Amir,
I have done this but still do not know if I have it correct or not??? What about calibrating the soundcard??? I am using a M-Audio Mobile Pre connected to my laptop...
Jayrm;214959]Quick tutorial on REW has been on my TODO list for a while
. The tools is non-intuitive but easy to use if that makes sense. First thing is whether you have a mic. If you do, plug it in and start REW. Then click on the "measure" button on top left. A pop up appears. There are two VU meters. Tap on the mic or otherwise make some noise and make sure it registers on those VU meters (i.e. their levels go up). That takes care of input. You then need to feed the output of your computer to your stereo. A headphone jack to RCA can feed stereo output easily and you can buy the adapter from many places. Once you connect that, press "start measuring." You should hear a frequency sweep from low to high. Get to this point and then I can explain the next chapter .[/QUOTE]
I have done this but still do not know if I have it correct or not??? What about calibrating the soundcard??? I am using a M-Audio Mobile Pre connected to my laptop...
Jayrm;214959]Quick tutorial on REW has been on my TODO list for a while
. The tools is non-intuitive but easy to use if that makes sense. First thing is whether you have a mic. If you do, plug it in and start REW. Then click on the "measure" button on top left. A pop up appears. There are two VU meters. Tap on the mic or otherwise make some noise and make sure it registers on those VU meters (i.e. their levels go up). That takes care of input. You then need to feed the output of your computer to your stereo. A headphone jack to RCA can feed stereo output easily and you can buy the adapter from many places. Once you connect that, press "start measuring." You should hear a frequency sweep from low to high. Get to this point and then I can explain the next chapter .[/QUOTE]
Hi JC,
I can't help but notice the walls in the pics you provided. Many ply or gypsum walls will resonate moreso when the walls themselves are extensions of the bass horns themselves. The stored energy can to create muddying to the bass when the boundaries ring. I realize that fixing this can of a level that can be expensive and will also invariably lead to a lot of listening down time. Bass traps over these boundaries usually do help a lot.
Here's something that might be left field but I figure I might as well throw into the mix. Have you tried adding structural rigidity to the cabinets themselves? This worked wonders when I did a lot of sound reinforcement work using hornloaded (J and W horns) bass drivers (XO points sometimes as high as 250Hz) when it comes to tightening up the bass, particularly mid bass. I also experienced this tightening when my loudspeakers were upgraded a couple of years back. In that case, the walls were re-inforced with natural stone and special adhesives. Down side is that it might change tonal balance a bit due to the said tightening. As we all know however, this change may affect things that you already like about your loudspeakers.
All the Best,
Jack
I can't help but notice the walls in the pics you provided. Many ply or gypsum walls will resonate moreso when the walls themselves are extensions of the bass horns themselves. The stored energy can to create muddying to the bass when the boundaries ring. I realize that fixing this can of a level that can be expensive and will also invariably lead to a lot of listening down time. Bass traps over these boundaries usually do help a lot.
Here's something that might be left field but I figure I might as well throw into the mix. Have you tried adding structural rigidity to the cabinets themselves? This worked wonders when I did a lot of sound reinforcement work using hornloaded (J and W horns) bass drivers (XO points sometimes as high as 250Hz) when it comes to tightening up the bass, particularly mid bass. I also experienced this tightening when my loudspeakers were upgraded a couple of years back. In that case, the walls were re-inforced with natural stone and special adhesives. Down side is that it might change tonal balance a bit due to the said tightening. As we all know however, this change may affect things that you already like about your loudspeakers.
All the Best,
Jack
a couple of questions;
--how solid are your walls? or your floor and ceiling?
--how decoupled are your electronics from feedback?
some rooms are too stout, and so the bass gets too reinforced which adds to the negative affect of room nodes. other rooms are too soft, and the bass does not have strong enough room boundaries to be retained and so you miss impact.
establishing stronger room boundaries sounds expensive, but it's more a pain in the arse than a huge expense. floors and ceilings can be more complicated. but in any case if you like the sound you have but want more solid bass this might be a thing to consider.
a product i used which adds minimal depth is Quietrock THX 545. it's only 1 and 3/8 inches thick but will perform better than 6 sheets of 5/8" sheetrock. it has a 1/4" thick layer of aluminum in it. it's not cheap, but for under a couple thousand dollars you could have very stout walls.
http://quietrock.com/quietrock-product/quietrock-545-thx
there are many de-coupling products which will reduce/eliminate bass impact robbing feedback. and maybe you already have this covered.
before you spend money on a bunch of bass traps, and get a DSP and digitize your signal path.....consider these 2 areas of opportunity.
--how solid are your walls? or your floor and ceiling?
--how decoupled are your electronics from feedback?
some rooms are too stout, and so the bass gets too reinforced which adds to the negative affect of room nodes. other rooms are too soft, and the bass does not have strong enough room boundaries to be retained and so you miss impact.
establishing stronger room boundaries sounds expensive, but it's more a pain in the arse than a huge expense. floors and ceilings can be more complicated. but in any case if you like the sound you have but want more solid bass this might be a thing to consider.
a product i used which adds minimal depth is Quietrock THX 545. it's only 1 and 3/8 inches thick but will perform better than 6 sheets of 5/8" sheetrock. it has a 1/4" thick layer of aluminum in it. it's not cheap, but for under a couple thousand dollars you could have very stout walls.
http://quietrock.com/quietrock-product/quietrock-545-thx
there are many de-coupling products which will reduce/eliminate bass impact robbing feedback. and maybe you already have this covered.
before you spend money on a bunch of bass traps, and get a DSP and digitize your signal path.....consider these 2 areas of opportunity.
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you might need a waterfall plot that shows decay at frequency. tightness and impact are what you are wanting.
and i'm not a guy who can read this stuff. but in my case, my bass was overdamped and the waterfall plot revealed it. establishing solid room boundaries helped it alot.
and i'm not a guy who can read this stuff. but in my case, my bass was overdamped and the waterfall plot revealed it. establishing solid room boundaries helped it alot.
Those are the right graphs, but your display ranges are all over the map which makes them difficult to read. This article shows appropriate ranges for all of the common display types:
Room Measuring Primer
--Ethan
Hi Jcmusic, While we will have to wait for the real experts to chime in here regarding your graphs, I will give you my opinions.
First off I have to ask which interconnects and power cords you are using, cabling has a huge effect on bass speed and power. This is what I would look into.
I would not use any room deadening in your room. I has the effect of killing high freq and imaging, the two big attributes of cornerhorns. Also with these contraptions in the corners you would be fighting the natural workings of your speakers, these speakers were never designed with sound killing absorption in the room.
To keep the purity and essence of you speakers look into better cabling and electronics.
You said "I really only want to tighten up the bass some and I am done, it sounds really good to me now I am just trying to see if it will get better!!!"
Looking at your graphs, which look good to me, with response to 20hz I see no reason to add sound deadening. Though they look like an EKG with a heart attack about to happen!!!
Wendell
First off I have to ask which interconnects and power cords you are using, cabling has a huge effect on bass speed and power. This is what I would look into.
I would not use any room deadening in your room. I has the effect of killing high freq and imaging, the two big attributes of cornerhorns. Also with these contraptions in the corners you would be fighting the natural workings of your speakers, these speakers were never designed with sound killing absorption in the room.
To keep the purity and essence of you speakers look into better cabling and electronics.
You said "I really only want to tighten up the bass some and I am done, it sounds really good to me now I am just trying to see if it will get better!!!"
Looking at your graphs, which look good to me, with response to 20hz I see no reason to add sound deadening. Though they look like an EKG with a heart attack about to happen!!!
Wendell
Jcmusic asked, "Are these better? ".
While we are waiting for the real experts again, I will offer my opinion again. The graph still looks like a heart attack about to happen, but my opinion has changed from you just needing better cables to you need an equalizer! I would recommend a Behringer eq. Thats what they use for equalizing home theater audio. Though I don't know how good it will sound on a 2 channel system. But I think that is you only choice.
Wendell
While we are waiting for the real experts again, I will offer my opinion again. The graph still looks like a heart attack about to happen, but my opinion has changed from you just needing better cables to you need an equalizer! I would recommend a Behringer eq. Thats what they use for equalizing home theater audio. Though I don't know how good it will sound on a 2 channel system. But I think that is you only choice.
Wendell
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