Resale Value, Prestige, Name Recognition, Aesthetics, Inclusion, and Exclusivity

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Performance first, reliability second, then aesthetics. I enjoy building brand recognition in our territory so unknown brands are a-ok. The performance still has to make the effort worth it, the reliability is required to protect both the buyers and our reputations. From a business standpoint, the biggest PITA for everybody involved is having stuff that breaks down. The less things breakdown the easier it is to give the best possible service when things eventually do. That's something I imagine would be quite difficult to do if you're swamped all the time.

I tend to keep all my personal stuff and do pop them in from time to time so resale value is not a big deal. I don't believe in exclusivity. The more, the merrier.

Aesthetics is important to me. Aesthetics doesn't mean it has to be shiny and fancy. Simple and solidly built is beautiful to these eyes too. Personally, a component must fit into its environment. Since I go for performance first, then that means I alter the feel of the environment to that of the component. I don't live alone and neither do the greater majority of our clients. Wives have a big say over here. :D
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Resale Value, Prestige, Name Recognition, Aesthetics, Inclusion, and Exclusivity

How important are these (and any others you can think of) against pure performance of your Audio equipment?

Given that sometimes these traits sometimes (but not always) intertwine with pure performance, What's most important to you?

Dre

Absolutely none (importance)! What's most important is the Music itself.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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La Jolla, Calif USA
I used to own the top of the line Hales speaker's. Well built, good sound, nice aesthetics...somewhat exclusive. Paul Hales unfortunately never got much name recognition. Like many before him, he struggled in the biz and ultimately closed his doors. As soon as he did the speakers plummeted in value...almost overnight. This factor did bother me as it was an issue in my ability to trade up and out. So, even while most of us seem to believe that this aspect is un-important, that attitude might change IF this circumstance happened to them. Personally, I will NEVER buy another high-end product from a small company that is NOT likely to be around in the near future. Plus, we are not even talking about servicing issues here that may be a factor.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
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DaveyF,

Well, we never know what's going to happen in the future. Companies, big and small, have gone under.
See all these poor folks with expensive Wadias. A pure bred american company. What are they left with? A company that's happy to manufacture a toy.
And how about Halcro? Cello?
That's why I don't buy into this "name recognition" thing. Most old, traditional brands are manufacturing things I have no interest in, since they're now owned by investors, and don't have the audiophile's best interest in mind. Sure, these brands might've gained some more longevity, but at what cost?
I'd rather have the best gear I can get, right now, and not worry what's going to happen in the future.


alexandre
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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458
La Jolla, Calif USA
DaveyF,

Well, we never know what's going to happen in the future. Companies, big and small, have gone under.
See all these poor folks with expensive Wadias. A pure bred american company. What are they left with? A company that's happy to manufacture a toy.
And how about Halcro? Cello?
That's why I don't buy into this "name recognition" thing. Most old, traditional brands are manufacturing things I have no interest in, since they're now owned by investors, and don't have the audiophile's best interest in mind. Sure, these brands might've gained some more longevity, but at what cost?
I'd rather have the best gear I can get, right now, and not worry what's going to happen in the future.


alexandre


Alexandre, I think there are many companies in high -end that one can feel reasonably sure will be around into the near future. I'm thinking of ARC, Maggie, Wilson and other well established companies of their ilk ( which Halcro, Wadia and Cello were not, IMO). OTOH, a small start-up company with "John the builder" as its principle is a whole lot less likely to survive. It is certainly very tempting to buy "John the builder's" product, particularly IF it sounds great and is getting good press....BUT like I said, I will not be an "early adopter" again. However, I like your attitude:D
 

still-one

VIP/Donor
Aug 6, 2012
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Industrial design is important to me and I would give up that last smidgeon of performance for a product that looks good to me. Like others I prefer to stay away from start-ups with designers who have no track record.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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www.pugetsoundstudios.com
Unless there are PC boards mounted to plywood, I want every bit of my money going to pure sound.

I have used PC boards mounted to plywood though! ;)
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
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www.bendingwaveusa.com
DaveyF,

Well, we never know what's going to happen in the future. Companies, big and small, have gone under.
See all these poor folks with expensive Wadias. A pure bred american company. What are they left with? A company that's happy to manufacture a toy.
And how about Halcro? Cello?
That's why I don't buy into this "name recognition" thing. Most old, traditional brands are manufacturing things I have no interest in, since they're now owned by investors, and don't have the audiophile's best interest in mind. Sure, these brands might've gained some more longevity, but at what cost?
I'd rather have the best gear I can get, right now, and not worry what's going to happen in the future.


alexandre

As a dealer and a consumer I can say that all the factors matter. I n fact since there is not now nor ever been only one clear cut option for good sound one would IMHO be foolish t o not consider all the factors before making an expensive purchase.
If one had to choose between a few good products and among them was companies that has not real track record and one that did its hard to ignore that.
This is IMHO true in everything I want to buy, I'm not buying a car from a start up, I want to research who's building my house, or who is going to do knee surgery.
Audio is the same. If I had to choose between someone like Wilson and others with no history or background I would choose the one I know will be there for service and for trade in and up. I feel the same way for say ARC and a few others.
The state of the art is a moving target but the good companies are usually not far off the target!
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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I agree that performance and reliability are key; value is relative, I suppose, depending on one's budget. Exclusivity and 'prestige' really matter very little since there is no 'prestige' in owning something that sounds bad or is unreliable.
I have a sense- nothing empirical really- that brand loyalty may be less important than it once was at the high-end of the scale; people will seek out the best performing equipment, whatever their budget (modest to unlimited) and if it means that a favored brand falls into the dust, so be it. Look at the names that were at the top of the heap not so long ago- many have been displaced by smallish companies. Certain brands, like ARC and McIntosh have a long-standing following and probably fare better in the resale market than others. My suspicion (again, speculation on my part) is that some of the 'cutting edge' stuff isn't necessarily the best at holding value, partly because it gets toppled for 'the next newest best thing' and may not have the brand following that makes others aspire to it as a used upgrade (compared to brands like ARC and McIntosh).
Somehow, most, not all of my gear has come from smallish, one-man companies. I don't flip equipment constantly, and have not gotten punished on resale/trade-in when I have done upgrades.
 

asiufy

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Jul 8, 2011
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Alexandre, I think there are many companies in high -end that one can feel reasonably sure will be around into the near future. I'm thinking of ARC, Maggie, Wilson and other well established companies of their ilk ( which Halcro, Wadia and Cello were not, IMO). OTOH, a small start-up company with "John the builder" as its principle is a whole lot less likely to survive. It is certainly very tempting to buy "John the builder's" product, particularly IF it sounds great and is getting good press....BUT like I said, I will not be an "early adopter" again. However, I like your attitude:D

DaveyF,

It's understandable. Some folks are more conservative, some are not. And that includes shopping for audio gear too :)

Some people run away from small time boutique operations. I run away from big behemoths like ARC and Wilson :)


alexandre
 

asiufy

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Jul 8, 2011
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As a dealer and a consumer I can say that all the factors matter. I n fact since there is not now nor ever been only one clear cut option for good sound one would IMHO be foolish t o not consider all the factors before making an expensive purchase.
If one had to choose between a few good products and among them was companies that has not real track record and one that did its hard to ignore that.
This is IMHO true in everything I want to buy, I'm not buying a car from a start up, I want to research who's building my house, or who is going to do knee surgery.
Audio is the same. If I had to choose between someone like Wilson and others with no history or background I would choose the one I know will be there for service and for trade in and up. I feel the same way for say ARC and a few others.
The state of the art is a moving target but the good companies are usually not far off the target!

That's perfectly understandable too. You're a dealer, you have far more to lose on a flaky, small operation than the end customer. Again, conservatives / not-so-conservatives :) There are dealers willing to take these risks, that's why we see importers picking up greek brands, in spite of the country's terrible economy...


alexandre
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
DaveyF,

It's understandable. Some folks are more conservative, some are not. And that includes shopping for audio gear too :)

Some people run away from small time boutique operations. I run away from big behemoths like ARC and Wilson :)


alexandre

Alexandre, I am not really against the small boutique operator. I own CAT gear and I think it is the cat's meow:D ( pun intended). I don't think anyone would say that Ken Stevens's outfit is a big behemoth. However, he does have a very good track record, which many other smaller companies do not. My first hand experience with Hales speakers is something that I do NOT want to repeat. I suspect that you have not had the same type of experience with any of your gear manufacturer's becoming extinct:(.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
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Alexandre, I am not really against the small boutique operator. I own CAT gear and I think it is the cat's meow:D ( pun intended). I don't think anyone would say that Ken Stevens's outfit is a big behemoth. However, he does have a very good track record, which many other smaller companies do not. My first hand experience with Hales speakers is something that I do NOT want to repeat. I suspect that you have not had the same type of experience with any of your gear manufacturer's becoming extinct:(.

DaveyF,

Where I live, it doesn't matter if the manufacturer is extinct or not. You simply will not get local help. So, I just buy whatever offers the best performance :)
But yes, all the brands I had or have currently are still going :)


alexandre
 

theophile

Well-Known Member
Resale Value, Prestige, Name Recognition, Aesthetics, Inclusion, and Exclusivity

How important are these (and any others you can think of) against pure performance of your Audio equipment?

Given that sometimes these traits sometimes (but not always) intertwine with pure performance, What's most important to you?

Dre

Resale value: I'm looking for sound quality
Prestige: I'm looking for sound quality
Aesthetics: I'm looking for sound quality
Inclusion: I'm looking for sound quality
Exclusivity: I'm looking for sound quality

My system sounds incredible and has components that most people have never heard of, will never see in their lifetimes. No prestige. No resale value. The preamp looks like an amateur effort. The turntable can't be any good because it is a Japanese Direct Drive and everyone knows that they are no good. The cartridge is a Moving Iron, everyone knows that the only cartridges worth owning are Moving Coils. The speakers are KRKs. Everyone knows that they are crap.

No bragging rights here. No crowd of prior users who can vouch for the ability of the components. Just a collection of components which are almost invisible as individual items. Thank GOD they sound amazing. That more than makes up for their lack of cachet.
 
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JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
The turntable can't be any good because it is a Japanese Direct Drive and everyone knows that they are no good. The cartridge is a Moving Iron, everyone knows that the only cartridges worth owning are Moving Coils. The speakers are KRKs. Everyone knows that they are crap.

Says who?
 

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
2,542
31
385
NY
Reliability, performance and build quality are most important to me.

When I purchase a component, I plan to keep it, so resale, exclusivity and name recognition don't matter. I have given some of my former components to family members and friends who appreciate them.
 

Dre_J

Industry Expert
Mar 5, 2012
478
1
0
Resale Value, Prestige, Name Recognition, Aesthetics, Inclusion, and Exclusivity

How important are these (and any others you can think of) against pure performance of your Audio equipment?

Given that sometimes these traits sometimes (but not always) intertwine with pure performance, What's most important to you?

Dre

Given some of the more recent threads I've been seeing, I thought I'd bring this one back to the top and see if anyone has new opinions or would like to contribute.

Dre
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
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Northern NY
Resale value means little to me as I don't plan on any major system upgrades for a long time, save for the main preamp. I want a company that is going to be there in the future to service my existing components when needed and their products are at or near SOTA performance wise. Reliability is also important. No one likes to have to ship back 500lbs of amps for service. The other window dressings in the original query are of little interest to me.
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,127
651
1,200
Alto, NM
Hi all,

Here's some recent experience. I tend to buy used or dealer demos.

ML Summit sale / trade in price after 5 years and lots of hours. Purchased new. When sold, "X" model not yet available. 75 cents on the initial dollar amount spent.

Current Pass Labs X250.5 amp. Dealer demo. Full warranty. 5 years and lots of hours. Judging by Audiogon prices, probably recover very near initial purchase price. Impact of new .8 series unknown at this time.

Current Cary Audio 306 SACD CDP. Dealer demo. Full warranty. Same time frame and use. Again based on Audiogon prices, probably 70 cents on the initial dollar amount spent.

Currrent MBL 116 speakers. Legacy model. Bought used. Maybe 6 years old when I purchased. 3 years and many hours. Audiogon based, 65 to 70 cents on the initial dollar amount invested.

Not too bad.

GG

PS: Above approximate resale prices are current value estimates on used market. No performance / operational issues with any of the gear referenced above. And I don't buy based on potential "resale" value. I buy using value (price vs performance ratio) as the principal parameter and then what I can afford to spend at the time of the initial purchase. Manufacturer history and stability is another important factor. For example, would not buy a Sanders Audio product (despite value) since I tend to keep gear for a long period of time. Very leery of "single person" manufacturers and the potential for them to go out of business if something happens to that person.
 
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