Drop at 130hz in my new mixing room

nun

New Member
Aug 14, 2013
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Hi,
I moved the a new studio and after acoustic treatment i found a -12 db drop at 128-140 hz ,especially in 130hz,all the rest are pretty good.
when i get up from my listening point i can hear it louder when i seat down its -12db drop again...:confused:
i got a big room with high sloped ceiling (4 meter to 3) im sitting below the 4 meter point.
pictures of the room:
room2.jpg room.JPG


appreciate your help!
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
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Dallas, Texas
Try measuring each speaker individually. If the null is the same for each, you know the boundary causing the SBIR is at least equidistant from each speaker. You can use the SBIR formula to pinpoint which surface is causing it. I think you can find it in different places like Acoustic Frontiers or Real Traps.
 

nun

New Member
Aug 14, 2013
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0
Try measuring each speaker individually. If the null is the same for each, you know the boundary causing the SBIR is at least equidistant from each speaker. You can use the SBIR formula to pinpoint which surface is causing it. I think you can find it in different places like Acoustic Frontiers or Real Traps.

Thanks,
but i didn't get it...
the formula is:
cancellation frequency = speed of sound / (2 * path length difference) ?

can you please go into more detail, i didnt know about the SBIR before...
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
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Thanks,
but i didn't get it...
the formula is:
cancellation frequency = speed of sound / (2 * path length difference) ?

can you please go into more detail, i didnt know about the SBIR before...

I think what you may be confused about it is what an SBIR is. If you understand that, the formula will make more sense to you. An SBIR results in a null caused by indirect sound wave that negatively interferes with the direct sound wave from your speaker to your listening position. That's what path length difference in the formula is referring to. If I were you I would start by measuring each speaker to see if the null is the same. Then I look at uniform boundaries around your speakers. Your pictures are not that great. But it looks like you have sidewalls that are fairly uniform on either side of each speaker. That would be my guess, but I can't know for sure without using that formula and measuring. It could also be the frontwall. You need to know which boundary is causing the SBIR before taking any further actions like moving speakers. If it is the sidewalls, you could try moving your speakers closer into the center of the room, away from the sidewalls. That may help reduce the null, but could also reduce the center frequency of the null. If it is the sidewalls, your room treatments are ineffective at that frequency on the sidewall. You will need some very good bass traps in the correct position to help mitigate the SBIR. But, first you need to know exactly where it's coming from. If it is the sidewall, I wouldn't recommend crossing your system over at the SBIR frequency and put the subs somewhere else in your room. I think crossing over at such a high frequency would be very difficult to integrate properly. I think you are better off changing speaker positions and using much more powerful room treatments. I am glad you brought this up, because almost every room has this problem and most folks don't even realize it's there. Depending on the shape of the null, it may not be very audible. It would be good to post your measurements. SBIRs are a problem but it's almost impossible to totally eliminate all of them because most of us don't listen in giant auditoriums. :)
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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Seattle, WA
Be sure to also look at table bounce. Measure with or without the desk in front of it. Horizontal reflections should be avoided if you can.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
Table bounce makes sense. 1/2 wavelength of 130hz is somewhere between 3.5 and 4 ft.
 

nun

New Member
Aug 14, 2013
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0
Be sure to also look at table bounce. Measure with or without the desk in front of it. Horizontal reflections should be avoided if you can.

if its a table bounce so what are the solution for this problem?
because i got to have the table...if i cover it with map or something it will help?
 

nun

New Member
Aug 14, 2013
5
0
0
I think what you may be confused about it is what an SBIR is. If you understand that, the formula will make more sense to you. An SBIR results in a null caused by indirect sound wave that negatively interferes with the direct sound wave from your speaker to your listening position. That's what path length difference in the formula is referring to. If I were you I would start by measuring each speaker to see if the null is the same. Then I look at uniform boundaries around your speakers. Your pictures are not that great. But it looks like you have sidewalls that are fairly uniform on either side of each speaker. That would be my guess, but I can't know for sure without using that formula and measuring. It could also be the frontwall. You need to know which boundary is causing the SBIR before taking any further actions like moving speakers. If it is the sidewalls, you could try moving your speakers closer into the center of the room, away from the sidewalls. That may help reduce the null, but could also reduce the center frequency of the null. If it is the sidewalls, your room treatments are ineffective at that frequency on the sidewall. You will need some very good bass traps in the correct position to help mitigate the SBIR. But, first you need to know exactly where it's coming from. If it is the sidewall, I wouldn't recommend crossing your system over at the SBIR frequency and put the subs somewhere else in your room. I think crossing over at such a high frequency would be very difficult to integrate properly. I think you are better off changing speaker positions and using much more powerful room treatments. I am glad you brought this up, because almost every room has this problem and most folks don't even realize it's there. Depending on the shape of the null, it may not be very audible. It would be good to post your measurements. SBIRs are a problem but it's almost impossible to totally eliminate all of them because most of us don't listen in giant auditoriums. :)

Thanks.
i will check it out ...
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
if its a table bounce so what are the solution for this problem?
because i got to have the table...if i cover it with map or something it will help?
There are different solutions people use. One is to move the speaker forwards close to the front edge. The other is to get a less wide desk and put the speakers past it. Yet anther option is tilting the table so that the reflection goes past your ears. Lastly you can try to absorb it but if the frequency is this low, it requires a pretty thick absorber (4 inches). You can try to suspend an absorber above the desk as to make it more effective and then it can be less thick. Thin fabric on the desk as you suggest will not do anything at this frequency.

For now, I would first confirm that is your problem either with ear or instrumentation.
 

nun

New Member
Aug 14, 2013
5
0
0
There are different solutions people use. One is to move the speaker forwards close to the front edge. The other is to get a less wide desk and put the speakers past it. Yet anther option is tilting the table so that the reflection goes past your ears. Lastly you can try to absorb it but if the frequency is this low, it requires a pretty thick absorber (4 inches). You can try to suspend an absorber above the desk as to make it more effective and then it can be less thick. Thin fabric on the desk as you suggest will not do anything at this frequency.

For now, I would first confirm that is your problem either with ear or instrumentation.

OK, so i moved the speaker forwards close to the front edge, and the null in 130 disappear!
but...now i get the same null in 103 hz....:confused:
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,319
1,428
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Shortened the distance, shortened the 1/2 wavelength. You could either angle the table as amir already mentioned which is how control surfaces usually are. Since you are using shortcuts via a keyboard that might not be practical. Alternately you could try lowering the monitors a bit and angle them upwards or raise the stands and angle them downwards changing the angle of the reflections.

You could try using something like this.

http://www.primacoustic.com/isopads.htm
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
2,067
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0
Dallas, Texas
If the speakers are at the edge of the table, it's probably not the table. It could be frontwall if the frequency goes down as you've moved the speakers now further into the room.
 
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