I think I need help..

I would check all of your alignment parameters first, then anti-skate. If the cart is in fact aligned and you are getting left channel distortion, you may have too much anti-skate. Right channel distortion can indicate too little anti-skate. The outer groove is your right channel, the inner is your left channel.

I have experience with Dynavector XV1-s/Triplanar combination. A few thoughts...

Neither the tonearm nor the cartridge tend toward the 'lush' side of neutral and if setup is not nuts-on, the combination can be strident. Other than the van den hul Colibri, no cartridge I know of gains more from dead on (as opposed to very close) set up; so attention to detail and patience pays big dividends. Instead of a gentle bell shaped curve of performance -vs- set up, you get a sharp spike in performance as you approach dead on.

The process is iterative and may take several sessions. It is best done when you are fresh and not caffeine loaded. Great advice is to stop when the first '"f-bomb" is uttered. A friend whose hearing you trust is invaluable and worth a bottle of Scotch (after the set up is done and not before). Keep a notebook of each setting and what you hear...it is worthwhile as you make changes over several sessions. Change only one parameter at a time.

I would suggest the following:

a. If you don't have a MintLP arc protractor, I'd strongly encourage it. I was able to really improve my set up using the MintLP with strong flash light and high quality magnifying loop.

b. Take the cartridge off the tonearm and give it a good, careful cleaning. Check the stylus for wear.

c. Consider removing the tonearm lift. Also review Doug Deacon's invaluable Triplanar Tips thread on Audiogon: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117142645&read

d. When you reattach the cartridge to the tonearm, make sure the mounting screws are tight (but don't strip them!). This can cause sibilence.

e. Make sure the pivot to spindle is correct. Don't assume the supplied tool is correct, I've seen a case where it wasn't. Here is a recent post from Fremer:
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/tri-planar-tonearm-owner-alert

f. IMO, there is a lot of bad advice regarding the XV1-s and VTF. I found 1.87-1.88 gms yielded best results with the Triplanar. And yes, you can hear a the difference between 0.01 gm; so a good VTF gauge is invaluable. I got better results with the heavier counterweight closer to the pivot. Don't use the small counterweight (i.e. the one with a gnurled surface) at the stub...it picks up resonance.

g. The Triplanar is great, for documenting reproducible changes in VTA. (Have a friend help you by changing VTA while you listen.) Remember, you have to go past the 'best' VTA until the sound degrades, then go back to 'best'. (This holds true for all set up parameters.) Use 1 or 2 tracks; lately I've been using "I Remember You" from Eilen Jewell's 'Queen of the Minor Key' and "Jeopardy" by the Greg Kihn Band on the 'Kihnspiracy' LP. Once you think you've nailed VTA, double check your alignment and VTF. Then double check VTA. This will take several iterations likely will require several listening sessions.

h. Azimuth is the last thing to check. It's a little tricky on the Triplanar but is worth working at. I find best results with a mono of female vocals (like Sarah Vaughan's version of "My Favorite Things" on Roulette Records). I have not used a Fogzometer but know others who report great success.

i. The XV1-s is not a heavy cartridge and is a great tracker. In my system, I got the best sound by disengaging the anti-skate.

Good luck! The Triplanar and XV1-s are a great combo!

MadFloyd said:

Thanks for both replies.

Jazdoc:

I have (and did use) the Mint protractor. It's been a couple years but I recall doing it a few times, taking about 4 hours or so each time and getting it as close as my patience would allow.

How do I check the stylus for wear? I have a magnifying loop, but I'm not sure what to look for. What is the sonic effect/symptoms of a worn stylus? I dread the thought of taking the cartridge off to check this (because that means another 4 hours of Mint pain).

What causes sibilence - if the mounting screws are not tight - or stripped?

I did set the Azimuth with a Fozgometer and I think it's pretty good.

I read Doug Deacon's triplanar guide and based on that and your comment, I will try disengaging the anti-skate (and probably the finger lift as well).

Click to expand...

Hey, I feel your pain...I have familial lack of hand eye coordination, deforming inflammatory arthritis in my hands and need progressive lenses in my glasses, so if I can learn to set up a cartridge anyone can. If you don't have the patience, it's worth begging a friend (or in worse case hiring someone) to help you. If you need a reference, please PM. I used an older cartridge to practice set up so I wouldn't feel too bad if I trashed it.

A strong magnifying loop or a digital microscope can be used to check for excess stylus wear.

Not tightening the mounting screws will definitely degrade performance...one thing I heard in my system was sibilence.

Good luck.

Are you still using the Doshi phono stage? If so, what you're hearing sounds exactly like a bad tube.

I'm getting distortion with sibilance on 's' sounds on many LPs. I have a Triplanar arm

Because thats what Triplaners sound like! Try a better arm.

Wendell

theguesswho said:

I'm getting distortion with sibilance on 's' sounds on many LPs. I have a Triplanar arm

Because thats what Triplaners sound like! Try a better arm.

Wendell

Click to expand...

Hmm I don't get any sibilance with my triplanar and lyra atlas or allaerts MC2 Finish...

MadFloyd said:

Yes, I am. A bad tube could cause sibilence? To be clear I'm not getting the distortion all the time - only on female vocalists (as far as I can tell anyway).

Click to expand...

Yep. Bad tube could easily be linked to a small frequency band in my experience. Easy enough to troubleshoot before anything else

Do you have another cart to try ? If so, set it up and see if you still get the same distortion. At least then, you can eliminate the cart as the problem.

The triplanar initially sounds exciting and dynamic open and airy, but after long term listening you will find the high freq to be tiring and sibilant. That has been my experience.
Well that, and the Wilson speakers that are know to be tipped up in the high freq. This is due to the titanium tweeters that are in your Sashas.

Wendell

theguesswho said:

The triplanar initially sounds exciting and dynamic open and airy, but after long term listening you will find the high freq to be tiring and sibilant. That has been my experience.
Well that, and the Wilson speakers that are know to be tipped up in the high freq. This is due to the titanium tweeters that are in your Sashas.

Wendell

Click to expand...

I know he doesn't get much love, but Fremer posted something about the Triplanars the other day...

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/tri-planar-tonearm-owner-alert

Apparently, even the included jig is wrong... I think it's worth looking into...


alexandre

MadFloyd said:

I'm getting distortion with sibilance on 's' sounds on many LPs. At first I thought it was just bad pressings but it's happening pretty consistently and I've had a friend test one LP (I mailed it to him) and he claims it tracks perfectly on his system.

All this to say that I'm pretty sure it's something with my setup. It sounds like the distortion pulls towards the left channel, but I'm not sure it's isolated to just that channel.

Is this indicative of anti-skate, azimuth, general mal-alignment of cartridge, or perhaps wearing out of stylus (or something else)?

I have a Triplanar arm with a Dynavector XV1-s that may be getting on in terms of age.

All advice appreciated!

Click to expand...

It is very much possible that it is a setup issue. However, can you provide a bit more information for me?

You have received good suggestions so far. I just want to narrow the focus a little by trying to eliminate a couple of other variables a bit sooner.

- Does this only occur with vinyl playback and no other sources?

You mentioned that this happens only on vocals of some of your LPs.
- Can you share maybe two or more titles of the LPs that have this issue?
- Can you supply the name of two or more titles of the LPs that are similar but don’t have this issue?

Tubes were mentioned earlier in the thread:
- Are you able to replace the set of tubes in your phono section for the purpose of listening for sibilance variation only? When you do this, don’t worry about changes in other areas to your optimal or preferred sound. This is only a test for possible links to sibilance issues.

I’m going to stay away from owner preference with speaker and tonearm as an issue initially because there isn’t much solid information to subscribe a cause (I didn’t say use/setup contribution) to one or the other. In short, I won’t go there since I’ve heard both perform well in other situations.

Dre

Myles and Dre give good advice. We often make the mistake of assuming the cause of a problem (as I did above).

I think Dre's idea to try and localize the problem is a logical place to start. If vinyl only, this indicates that the issue is most likely proximal to the line stage. If this happens with all sources, this suggests that the problem is at or distal to the line stage. You can then work methodically backwards or fowards to isolate the issue.

Always worthwhile to check cable connections, set up etc on a regular basis...I check at least once a month.

MadFloyd said:

Yes, it's certainly vinyl related (or possibly the phono stage tubes as Myles suggested).



The new remix 33RPM LP of Patricia Barber's Cafe Blue exhibits this behavior. I sent my LP to a friend (fellow forum member Peter Ayer) and had him play 1st track on side 2 "Ode to Billy Joe" and he reported no distortion of any kind on her vocals. Of course, it's not just this track (it's prevalent on all 4 sides). The sound is like a static or 'tearing' that seems to originate in the center image (with the vocal location) but migrate to the left side just before it goes away.

I played a few other LPs yesterday, including Eva Cassidy, Rumer and also got some amount of distortion on sss syllables.

I also played the new Phoebe Snow and did NOT hear this effect, but I suspect that's because of mix and tonal differences.

Click to expand...

Ian,

I have a friend visiting this evening so I'll give the new reissue Patty LP a spin to warm up the system before we do some listening. I do know the Eva Cassidy LP can tax some setups and phonostages when things are not just so.

One additional thing you can try is to put the phono section into MM mode and use one of the MM inputs to see if you are overloading the MC input. You won't have as much gain but that doesn't matter for this test. Let me know if you still have the sibilance issue. I'm asking you to try this test because when a phonostage is peak overloaded on HF sibilance it can have a similar distorted sound as well.

If it's not overloading the MC phono section, there is the strong possibility of severe HF mistracking due to cartridge setup or the age of the cartridge if it is beyond its useful life.

Let me know what you find out. I'll crack my reissue open and let you know what I hear.

Dre