Magico Ultimate 3

Rhapsody

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If Ked hasn't visited it, it doesn't exist.
It's funny as myself being a participant of WBF it usually seems to me that all of the global "big time" systems that exist are known and discussed.

THEN on the other side of my existence being in business for 20 years in NYC with literally hundreds of customers and 50+ customers, over the years, with $300K+ systems there are maybe <10 of these customers that are literally on ANY audio forum, more less WBF.

Add the who knows how many audio stores now and over the years on the globe with probably similar statistics and it would seem that we "think" we know about all the big systems that exist, but I think that "thinking" is highly questionable. imho.
 

jeff1225

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It's funny as myself being a participant of WBF it usually seems to me that all of the global "big time" systems that exist are known and discussed.

THEN on the other side of my existence being in business for 20 years in NYC with literally hundreds of customers and 50+ customers, over the years, with $300K+ systems there are maybe <10 of these customers that are literally on ANY audio forum, more less WBF.

Add the who knows how many audio stores now and over the years on the globe with probably similar statistics and it would seem that we "think" we know about all the big systems that exist, but I think that "thinking" is highly questionable. imho.
You're absolutely right Bob. I bought a rack system from a person outside of LA in a nice townhome. In his listening room I was shocked to find Audio Note speakers, top of the line Triangle Art turntable and full Kondo kit he bought from you. Many people with top systems have zero interactions with forums.
 
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Rhapsody

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You're absolutely right Bob. I bought a rack system from a person outside of LA in a nice townhome. In his listening room I was shocked to find Audio Note speakers, top of the line Triangle Art turntable and full Kondo kit he bought from you. Many people with top systems have zero interactions with forums.
I love WBF, not only for sales for Rhapsody, but personally, BUT I have been told by so many people that I recommended to look at something on WBF that "no way" in my life would I subject myself to posting on there. It's not for the faint of heart for sure;)

I have to add that especially guys with big $$$ that buy crazy big systems and not saying these are all great systems, but some of them are really good and they love them. But those kind of guys with the big $$$ are way too busy doing other things than hanging on audio forums......like I do:)
 
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cjfrbw

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There do seem to be underground groups of personally connected audiophile fanatics who don't blog. In the day, I lurked for many years before I shared and sometimes go back to lurking for periods of time.

I lurked for years on DIY audio forum. It was like reading a foreign language, mostly didn't make sense, but eventually I started to learn. I have a basic lay understanding of different solid state circuits now, power supplies, outputs, feedback, transistor types and specs and the implementation schemes. I also did my first simple DIY project successfully building Nelson Pass' Korg NuTube gain stage. It sounds great and I use it in my system in one area. I may try to build an amp someday.
 

Ron Resnick

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I have been told by so many people that I recommended to look at something on WBF that "no way" in my life would I subject myself to posting on there. It's not for the faint of heart for sure;)

. . .

Please tell such people I personally will look after them here. They have nothing to worry about!
 

christoph

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Please tell such people I personally will look after them here. They have nothing to worry about!
WBF is by FAAAAAAAR the most civil and friendly hifi/high end forum I know and I certainly know a LOT of forums ;)
 

Rhapsody

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Please tell such people I personally will look after them here. They have nothing to worry about!
Ron,

You would be surprised at the majority of "regular" non die-hard audiophiles, but people that love music and have audio systems, but are involved with their jobs, their families, traveling, other hobbies and normal life activities that look at especially WBF, but the other forums as well as HARD CORE.

I talk to so many doctors, lawyers, business owners, musicians, construction workers, government workers, garbage men, you name it and only the really hard core audiophiles, which in my world I estimate to be in the <10% of the few hundred people that I encounter would participate in not only WBF but any audio forum.

In my experience most people love to listen and enjoy music but they don't obsess over equipment or what the equipment sounds like compared to other equipment.

Just sayin' WBF and other audiophile forums are not the center of the universe and there are a lot of really nice music systems out there that people enjoy that have nothing to do with what we here discuss about music and equipment. Again, this is just my experience and mho.
 
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PeterA

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WBF is by FAAAAAAAR the most civil and friendly hifi/high end forum I know and I certainly know a LOT of forums ;)

Perhaps Christoph, but there are still plenty of really rude posts. And some of the PMs and emails I’ve gotten are even worse. Image what it would be like without Ron’s diligence.
 

Rhapsody

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WBF is by FAAAAAAAR the most civil and friendly hifi/high end forum I know and I certainly know a LOT of forums ;)
In my experience with all of the other forums WBF is "at times" the most intense forum that I have experienced. That's why I like it:) Go to the AcousticGuitarforum.com People never question what someone else likes. They have really nice discussions and applaud pretty much what others enjoy. I don't find that on pretty much most audio forums. Again, just my observation, ymmv.
 

Ron Resnick

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Ron,

You would be surprised at the majority of "regular" non die-hard audiophiles, but people that love music and have audio systems, but are involved with their jobs, their families, traveling, other hobbies and normal life activities that look at especially WBF, but the other forums as well as HARD CORE.

I talk to so many doctors, lawyers, business owners, musicians, construction workers, government workers, garbage men, you name it and only the really hard core audiophiles, which in my world I estimate to be in the <10% of the few hundred people that I encounter would participate in not only WBF but any audio forum.

In my experience most people love to listen and enjoy music but they don't obsess over equipment or what the equipment sounds like compared to other equipment.

Just sayin' WBF and other audiophile forums are not the center of the universe and there are a lot of really nice music systems out there that people enjoy that have nothing to do with what we here discuss about music and equipment. Again, this is just my experience and mho.

Thank you, Bob, for this post. Actually, I would not be surprised at all.

In fact what you report is exactly my modus operandi with regard to a second hobby I have. I treat this other hobby in a casual way in that while I have that hobby's equivalent of a number of "components" I am not on any of that hobby's forums; I have no social connections with hobbyists in that hobby, I have little desire to learn anything technical about that hobby; and I don't read magazines related to that hobby. Occasionally I enjoy the activity of that hobby -- that is it.
 
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Rhapsody

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Please tell such people I personally will look after them here. They have nothing to worry about!
The other thing, is that what is normal good constructive criticism here is downright scary to the non-initiated. You have to be a fairly seasoned audiophile to survive here.

Sure a high percentage of the threads on WBF are totally civil, informative and really great. And the lurkers gleam much from them. BUT participating and maybe having your participation get blindsided/attacked, which does happen, even in a civil way, is just way too much for the thin skinned. No big deal, it is what it is, and it's not going to change. The main point I was making is there are a lot of other systems in the universe that are not visible here.
 

PeterA

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Bob, here is but one example with pretty accurate numbers: There were 50 pairs of Magico M Pros produced and sold. I think I read about 3 pairs in systems here. And now almost no discussion.

I suspect there are systems out there similar to ddk’s Bionore/beyond tables thread that we know nothing about. We are very lucky that he and Mik and others are here.
 

Rhapsody

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Bob, here is but one example with pretty accurate numbers: There were 50 pairs of Magico M Pros produced and sold. I think I read about 3 pairs in systems here. And now almost no discussion.

I suspect there are systems out there similar to ddk’s Bionore/beyond tables thread that we know nothing about. We are very lucky that he and Mik and others are here.
I agree and I AM NOT knocking the forum at all. It's just the observation that to me it seems like all of the big systems in the world are discussed here, when in fact that is really not the case. Others may totally realize it but I always feel if someone has a great system it has been visible here.

I also have more exposure I believe than many to talking to people that have music systems but don't participate in forums, SO I should see that easily, but I don't, unless I remind myself of it:)

Happy Halloween!!!
 

the sound of Tao

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The other thing, is that what is normal good constructive criticism here is downright scary to the non-initiated. You have to be a fairly seasoned audiophile to survive here.

Sure a high percentage of the threads on WBF are totally civil, informative and really great. And the lurkers gleam much from them. BUT participating and maybe having your participation get blindsided/attacked, which does happen, even in a civil way, is just way too much for the thin skinned. No big deal, it is what it is, and it's not going to change. The main point I was making is there are a lot of other systems in the universe that are not visible here.
I attack that wildly, unreasonably and vehemently lol... Bob I’m not sure downright scary is really genuinely where it is at. There is a lot of diversity and reasoned and considered and intelligent debate here.

Sometimes things spiral into moments of awkward near madness but mostly there is an attempt at reasonable moderation here. Online forums aren’t always the absolute high points of civility and they can act as magnets for the whacked trolls but in general there is clearly an attempt here to not be lost into the worst aspects of the lowlands. Sure sometimes the horses are flogged here post mortem but that is a universal audiophile dilemma.

While it’s great that moderation happens here it would be good if we could be even more self censored and open for even more broadened perspectives. But I don’t feel downright scary really is it at all.
 
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Rhapsody

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I attack that wildly, unreasonably and vehemently lol... Bob I’m not sure scary is really genuinely where it is at. There is a lot of diversity and reasoned and considered and intelligent debate here. Sometimes things spiral into moments of awkward near madness but mostly there is an attempt at reasonable moderation here. Online forums aren’t always the absolute high points of civility and they can act as magnets for the whacked trolls but in general there is clearly an attempt here to not be lost into the worst aspects of the lowlands. Sure sometimes the horses are flogged here post mortem but that is a universal audiophile dilemma. While it’s great that moderation happens here it would be good if we could be even more self censored and go for even more broadened perspectives. But I don’t feel scary is it at all.
Of course it would not be scary to you, me, or everyone else here. I'm talking about probably a few hundred non-forum people that I have discussed it with over the years. To these people it would literally be scary to participate.

Don't forget I talk to probably 20+ people a day/7/365 that are into audio but not forum people. And I do discuss WBF many times as I try to point them here for something and I do have the conversations with them.
 
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Rhapsody

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I attack that wildly, unreasonably and vehemently lol... Bob I’m not sure downright scary is really genuinely where it is at. There is a lot of diversity and reasoned and considered and intelligent debate here.

Sometimes things spiral into moments of awkward near madness but mostly there is an attempt at reasonable moderation here. Online forums aren’t always the absolute high points of civility and they can act as magnets for the whacked trolls but in general there is clearly an attempt here to not be lost into the worst aspects of the lowlands. Sure sometimes the horses are flogged here post mortem but that is a universal audiophile dilemma.

While it’s great that moderation happens here it would be good if we could be even more self censored and open for even more broadened perspectives. But I don’t feel downright scary really is it at all.
I think the word "scary" popped into my head because it's Halloween:)
 

christoph

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Perhaps Christoph, but there are still plenty of really rude posts. And some of the PMs and emails I’ve gotten are even worse. Image what it would be like without Ron’s diligence.
I'm sorry to hear that you have to suffer through the back door :oops:
 

cjfrbw

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WBF is by FAAAAAAAR the most civil and friendly hifi/high end forum I know and I certainly know a LOT of forums ;)
Hmmmm? We'll have to do something about that. How about a sticky WBF glossary and thesaurus of audiophile ad- hominems and slurs.

'Golden ears? You have copper ears, and they aren't even oxygen free!'
 
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