Have any DartZeel owners moved onto other brands?

AudioExplorations · Jun 30, 2013

Have any DartZeel owners moved onto other brands for reasons other than the power limitations of the 108 (perhaps driven by a speaker change)?

And if so, where did you go and for what reason?

asiufy · Jun 30, 2013

Not me. Nothing has surpassed my 108 so far. I'm anxious to hear the D'Agostino amp now, since the Constellation was good, but not quite better.
Ended up changing speakers instead.

alexandre

joeinid · Jun 30, 2013

Joost/Alexandre,

I've been thinking about how to answer this question. I've had a love/hate relationship with my TAD CR-1's. They are amazing speakers and demand a lot from the electronics and music being played. When it's right, OMG! I don't think there's much better. I've been an early adopter of the Dartzeel 108, eventually adding the 18NS. There is no doubt that Dartzeel is one of the finest amps/preamp on the planet. When I introduced the Dart 108 to my CR-1's, I knew this is a special combo. Adding the preamp only confirmed what I was hearing. Dartzeel on my TADs is just a natural, grain free presentation. Amazing detail with zero harshness, well defined bass without being bloated. The Dart 108 lets everything pass through it without editorializing the sound. If your source is really good, you will surely be rewarded. If your music is poorly recorded or somewhat harsh, this combo will not sugar coat it and the TADs can spotlight those poorer recording. For me, this can be uncomfortable at times. Fast forward to today and I have since added the D'Agostino Momentum stereo amp and Momentum preamp. I really liked what the Momentum amp did for my CR-1's. The sound is fuller, bigger with more meat on the bone. Some may find that tiring over the long haul. Since adding the companion Momentum preamp to the D'Agostino amp, I am loving what I am hearing through my TADs. Yes, this combination is not as truthful as the Dartzeel combo but I can't handle the truth. I want a more musical, i.e. forgiving, presentation. The D'Agostino combo on my TADs is wonderful. Huge, both left to right and top to bottom, sound stage. Layered and in the room presentation to the music. My poorer recordings sound much better, even great. My better recordings are outstanding. I still love my Dartzeel but I am starting to prefer my D'Agostino on my TADs. I will be experimenting with different speakers over the coming months so this is still subject to change. System synergy and personal preference, at this point, is what's important to me. Right or wrong, I am the one who listens to my system and I need to enjoy what I hear.

joeinid · Jun 30, 2013

Joost,

Are you thinking about a gear or speaker change? Or are you just curious?

hvbias · Jun 30, 2013

One of my friends switched from the 108 to Art Audio monoblocks. He has Harbeth 40's

AudioExplorations · Jun 30, 2013

joeinid said:
Joost/Alexandre,

I've been thinking about how to answer this question. I've had a love/hate relationship with my TAD CR-1's. They are amazing speakers and demand a lot from the electronics and music being played. When it's right, OMG! I don't think there's much better. I've been an early adopter of the Dartzeel 108, eventually adding the 18NS. There is no doubt that Dartzeel is one of the finest amps/preamp on the planet. When I introduced the Dart 108 to my CR-1's, I knew this is a special combo. Adding the preamp only confirmed what I was hearing. Dartzeel on my TADs is just a natural, grain free presentation. Amazing detail with zero harshness, well defined bass without being bloated. The Dart 108 lets everything pass through it without editorializing the sound. If your source is really good, you will surely be rewarded. If your music is poorly recorded or somewhat harsh, this combo will not sugar coat it and the TADs can spotlight those poorer recording. For me, this can be uncomfortable at times. Fast forward to today and I have since added the D'Agostino Momentum stereo amp and Momentum preamp. I really liked what the Momentum amp did for my CR-1's. The sound is fuller, bigger with more meat on the bone. Some may find that tiring over the long haul. Since adding the companion Momentum preamp to the D'Agostino amp, I am loving what I am hearing through my TADs. Yes, this combination is not as truthful as the Dartzeel combo but I can't handle the truth. I want a more musical, i.e. forgiving, presentation. The D'Agostino combo on my TADs is wonderful. Huge, both left to right and top to bottom, sound stage. Layered and in the room presentation to the music. My poorer recordings sound much better, even great. My better recordings are outstanding. I still love my Dartzeel but I am starting to prefer my D'Agostino on my TADs. I will be experimenting with different speakers over the coming months so this is still subject to change. System synergy and personal preference, at this point, is what's important to me. Right or wrong, I am the one who listens to my system and I need to enjoy what I hear.

Joe- thanks for posting your thoughts.

AudioExplorations · Jun 30, 2013

joeinid said:
Joost,

Are you thinking about a gear or speaker change? Or are you just curious?

Neither, just wondering if there is anything out there that tops DartZeel.

joeinid · Jun 30, 2013

AudioExplorations said:
Neither, just wondering if there is anything out there that tops DartZeel.

There is nothing better than Dartzeel, just different. At this level, it's personal taste.

asiufy · Jul 1, 2013

Joe,

I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but you really need to try different sources now. I'm sure there's more to the darTZeel than you've heard so far

alexandre

KeithR · Jul 1, 2013

I had a couple hours of demo time on the Dart 8550 this past Saturday at a friends house and was blown away- we compared directly to my Valvet amplifiers on Marten speakers.

Joe- wonder if your speakers need more power than the Dart provides and hence why they are working better for you (now).

joeinid · Jul 1, 2013

asiufy said:
Joe,

I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but you really need to try different sources now. I'm sure there's more to the darTZeel than you've heard so far

alexandre

No doubt better sources yield better results.

KeithR said:
I had a couple hours of demo time on the Dart 8550 this past Saturday at a friends house and was blown away- we compared directly to my Valvet amplifiers on Marten speakers.

Joe- wonder if your speakers need more power than the Dart provides and hence why they are working better for you (now).

Keith. I think that's part of the equation. The D'Agostino feels more powerful compared to the Dartzeel and is voiced differently. The Dart is more true to the source. The Dag has a more upfront in the room presentation.

KeithR · Jul 1, 2013

I had the Ayre VX-5 in for a week and will have the Luxman 590ax in my system in another day or so. I am trying to make this my last amp purchase for many years- spinning more records is more important.

asiufy · Jul 2, 2013

Save the time, there's no chance these will better than CTH...
If you have a turntable, don't forget to order with the internal phono preamp, configured to your cartridge.

alexandre

Elberoth · Jul 2, 2013

Joost,

I already had two darTZeel 108s power amps. Sold the first one, tried something different, then bought another one as nothing sounded quite like it.

After I bought the Sasha, sold my second darTZeel as it was not able to drive the punishing load this speaker presents (1.8 Ohm minimum with some hard phase angles). I recently sold the Sashas, got the Magico S5s, borrowed the 108 again from a friend of mine, and I'm hooked again. I'm really close to pulling the triger for the third time. In the right system, it really is one of the greatest poweramps money can buy. Its hallmarks are a certain easy flowing liquidity that is hard to match on SS side of things, lack of grain, transparency and superb microdynamics.

joeinid · Jul 3, 2013

Elberoth said:
Joost,

I already had two darTZeel 108s power amps. Sold the first one, tried something different, then bought another one as nothing sounded quite like it.

After I bought the Sasha, sold my second darTZeel as it was not able to drive the punishing load this speaker presents (1.8 Ohm minimum with some hard phase angles). I recently sold the Sashas, got the Magico S5s, borrowed the 108 again from a friend of mine, and I'm hooked again. I'm really close to pulling the triger for the third time. In the right system, it really is one of the greatest poweramps money can buy. Its hallmarks are a certain easy flowing liquidity that is hard to match on SS side of things, lack of grain, transparency and superb microdynamics.

Adam,

I fully agree. I also prefer the Dagostino Momentum on my TAD CR-1's but since adding a pair of Sonus Faber Evolutions in the mix, I am blown away at how good the Dartzeel sounds on my Evos. The fuller presentation I prefer on my TADs from the Dagostino is too much for the Evos and the Dartzeel just makes a great match for them. That easy flowing liquidity, lack of grain, transparency and superb micro dynamics works wonders on my Evos. I love this combo.

Vin-Wei · Jul 16, 2013

I recently acquired the NS18 pre-amp and have the dart combo. Like Elberoth I also use the Sasha and the only regret of the 108 amp is its low power output to drive the low frequency of Sasha. To compensate this shortage I acquired a Burmester 911 amp one year ago, indeed I get the low frequency I want but I also lost some of the musical touch of the 108. So most of the time I still prefer to use the dart combo and the Burmester is only standby in case I want to listent to some special sound effect music.

So the conclusion is the same, it is hard to replace the dart 108, what you can get is different sound but not better sound.

asiufy · Jul 16, 2013

Vin-Wei said:
I recently acquired the NS18 pre-amp and have the dart combo. Like Elberoth I also use the Sasha and the only regret of the 108 amp is its low power output to drive the low frequency of Sasha. To compensate this shortage I acquired a Burmester 911 amp one year ago, indeed I get the low frequency I want but I also lost some of the musical touch of the 108. So most of the time I still prefer to use the dart combo and the Burmester is only standby in case I want to listent to some special sound effect music.

So the conclusion is the same, it is hard to replace the dart 108, what you can get is different sound but not better sound.

Have you tried your combo with a different speaker? You'll be surprised how much better they get than with a Sasha...
A local friend was happy with his Sasha (and darTZeel), until he started auditioning other speakers... He traded away almost immediately.

alexandre

Mike Lavigne · Jul 16, 2013

Vin-Wei said:
I recently acquired the NS18 pre-amp and have the dart combo. Like Elberoth I also use the Sasha and the only regret of the 108 amp is its low power output to drive the low frequency of Sasha. To compensate this shortage I acquired a Burmester 911 amp one year ago, indeed I get the low frequency I want but I also lost some of the musical touch of the 108. So most of the time I still prefer to use the dart combo and the Burmester is only standby in case I want to listent to some special sound effect music.

So the conclusion is the same, it is hard to replace the dart 108, what you can get is different sound but not better sound.

+1.

hard to improve on the musical connection with the dart 108. it gets out of the way of the music. you get the sense you are listening to the music, not thru something else.

just my 2 cents, of course. YMMV and all that stuff.

Vin-Wei · Jul 16, 2013

asiufy said:
Have you tried your combo with a different speaker? You'll be surprised how much better they get than with a Sasha...
A local friend was happy with his Sasha (and darTZeel), until he started auditioning other speakers... He traded away almost immediately.

alexandre

Alexandre: I did have another pair Amati Anniversario stand right next my Sasha, I switch between the speakers for different types of music, as Amati can play violin so musical no other speaker can (maybe the newer SF model or the bigger brother can). I still like the Sasha for its exciting music playback and liveness, and I think its cost/performance is quite high, some other speakers may better the Sasha but the price may not be in the same range.

Having said that, I am still very intrested which speaker your friend replace the Sasha and have better synergy with darTZeel?

Vin-Wei · Jul 16, 2013

And just for the darTZeel user reference, when I bought the 108 amp, the local dealer paired it with YG speaker with the active woofer, which sounded excellent, and since the woofer is active so 108 amp only handled the mid & high range, hence the low power output is not an issue anymore. I can easily tell the overll soundstage and bass slam are much better than I pair with my Sasha. Unfotunately the wife-acceptance-factor of YG speaker is equally low as Sasha so can not persuade the wife to change speaker. So other active woofer speaker is a direction to consider to pair with 108 amp.

Have any DartZeel owners moved onto other brands?

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