Traffic Stop Video: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC

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jazdoc

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Lee,

I wholeheartedly agree that the police are under-appreciated and have an extremely difficult job. I would respectfully argue that the your post illustrates a significant cultural problem we have nurtured in this country; we have lost sight of the basic principle that the police are the public and the public are the police. Here are the original Peelian principles of policing enunciated when the London Police Department was formed in the early 19th century (policing is a relatively modern profession):

The nine principles were as follows:

1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.

2. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.

3. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.

4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.

5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.

6. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.

7. To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

8. To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.

9. To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.
 

Ron Resnick

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I wouldn't rush to any conclusion yet Bob, I'm not saying it was right but I'm sure that there's more to the story than just being pulled over for busted traffic light and then getting shot for being black. This woman's behavior isn't normal by any stretch of imagination, to sit there and calmly record a video when a dear one is shot and killed next to you isn't doesn't sit well with me. Most people including soldiers used to death are traumatized, yet its as if she's on the phone with a girl friend. None of this makes sense and now there are sites with Castile's arrest records and not the good boy that girl friend wants to portray. We'll have to wait and see how the truth unfolds.

david

100% +1!
 

NorthStar

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I wouldn't rush to any conclusion yet Bob, I'm not saying it was right but I'm sure that there's more to the story than just being pulled over for busted traffic light and then getting shot for being black. This woman's behavior isn't normal by any stretch of imagination, to sit there and calmly record a video when a dear one is shot and killed next to you isn't doesn't sit well with me. Most people including soldiers used to death are traumatized, yet its as if she's on the phone with a girl friend. None of this makes sense and now there are sites with Castile's arrest records and not the good boy that girl friend wants to portray. We'll have to wait and see how the truth unfolds.

david

I can only go with what I get yet. But don't worry I'm very open mind, and will research further into this story.
You made some valid points David.

I've heard that he had a pistol in his lap, and his claim of a permit is not yet substantiated. Please allow more details to emerge before casting judgement.

As to the current mindset of law enforcement officers: imagine that you go to work everyday knowing that there is currently a wave of workplace shootings that target folks with your job. It doesn't matter if you actively do anything to anger anyone. One cannot help but be changed by that type/amount of pressure. These same individuals, who are being castigated in the public eye, are the first ones who will put themselves in danger to save your kidnapped child, etc.
My theories on why the public vs police drama has escalated are (unfortunately) not proper material for this forum.

Lee

I understand Lee. ...What's Best in Everything Else | Self Defense
Was it justified in this case here? Cops should have a mini cam on their uniforms that they activate every time they stop a motorist, or a pedestrian, or any other stop/altercation involving a citizen(s). ...And not only in their patrol cars (we have yet to see that video).
And if another cop(s) is/are providing assistance, his/their mini cams should also be activated. This is 2016 and it's America. We have high tech gadgets for our home entertainment, with voice and video assistants. So when it comes to more serious stuff in real life, and that life can depend on it...it is even more important to use the technologies for a better advanced society.

One of the best self defenses is to have our cameras rolling. That's one step in the right direction.
 

NorthStar

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Lee, I'm going to remain with this new case only. To see if there was proper justification to kill that 32-year old young motorist.

I just watched couple dozen videos of unarmed citizens shot dead and even raped in court by police officers! It is truly disgusting.
You guys can google like anyone else, and see for yourself. Texas seems to be a good spot for bad cops, among other states.

But because you posted that just above...

[video=youtube;ecWeIBWWL6U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbI5HHz7fJU[/VIDEO

I can post hundreds more video of cops brutality and killing unarmed citizens.
I tell you this, it makes me real sick that in my own neighborhood to have psycho cop killers and rapists like that!
They used their power to decide who dies for no good reason other.

Yes, I know, there are bad people out there, and we as citizens we have a right to protect and defend ourselves against cops who rape, who kill, who use deadly force.
Who the heck they think they are! ...Above the law! It's time those cops get serious training for the job they're paid to do; get rid of real criminals, not innocent citizens.
Those just few videos above show zero brain from all those cops; they are a dangerous and lethal menace to the protection of our citizens.

You're going to need strong arguments to deny those facts Lee.
______

Anyway, it's the first link that I posted earlier that I wanted to discuss and find more about. I made the effort to no over saturate your thread with more unjustified "self-defense" killings by cops. You brought that test above; that's only one of my replies.
There is no doubt that there are many bad cops, and in America...in the United States of America included.

And that camera thing, it's better to have them than none. I trust our American judges to have an objective assessment of their own, and the lawyers and prosecutors to do their honest job with integrity. Because if I don't who will?
_______

But yes, I'll wait to see what happens next with that Minnesota's shooting of that young black driver by a cop.
This is not a court of law, it's a thread about Self Defense, justified or not by cops in this country. ...Traffic stops.
And it's not about Oscar Pistorious who they said could be released only after a year for good behavior, and put free on probation because the jails are overcrowded.
But then, was Oscar Pistorious justified to use self defense/deadly force with a pistol against a closed bathroom door (invisible entity) where his girlfriend went to protect herself against a tumultuous deranged boyfriend?

The violence across this globe is just unbelievable! Our education systems are failing more of us than helping us. ...And cops need better education, more training, and more cameras.
 

NorthStar

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Alright, from the case I was mostly interested in: https://theconservativetreehouse.co...lse-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

http://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/...ng-investigation-uncovers-explosive-evidence/

I was wrong; that young girl with her Facebook video she got me all wrapped up. ...She's bad dude, she deserves to go to jail for a long while.
She created/accentuated more violence...and perhaps contributing to those five cops shot dead in Dallas.

Yeah, we have to be careful with what's being posted on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. ...Lots of psychopaths out there checking Facebook, and Twitter.
This case is the perfect example...that young girl in Minnesota. ...That young guy in Dallas, with a sniper rifle on the building's rooftop. ...Very dangerous people some of these young dudes.
_______

The few videos I posted in reply to Lee; those are alarming, as I don't see any justification in police officers sexually molesting, illegally searching, raping and killing unarmed people with their two arms up high in the air. And that cop who was fired for raping the young mother in the court house, and the lady judge playing with her daughter; that makes me real sick.
And I kid you not, there are many many more videos with police brutality and killing (beating and shooting to death) innocent people. This is no joke, this is real as real it can be.
 
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NorthStar

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Are police's excessive force, brutality, abuse of power, breaking the law, rape, killing, ...justified?

Lol, that 12-year old kid telling the officer on his motorcycle to not park his bike on the sidewalk. ...And asked him to show him his badge number and name.
And that officer starting his noisy engine and engaging a conversation with the kid, while the engine keeps running as to show his power sitting on his running bike on the sidewalk! Who the heck he thinks he is...John Wayne on his horse riding the Wild West! :b ...Just too much man.
 

ddk

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I agree those are great ideals which are long forgotten and might not even even part of police training these days jazdoc, but this is another matter altogether. We're living at a time when criminals are protected by this so called president and let go because of their last name, yet police officers are demonized for doing their job or defending themselves with the liberal media in tow. Just in the last few weeks you have a terrorist's 911 conversation while shooting a hundred plus people in cold blood is first hidden, then censored for content and finally dubbed by our bought & paid for AG so not to offend his kind, and our senators dancing to the tune of this president have a sit in to disarm the average American. This all while his kind are blowing up innocent people wholesale wherever they can! AG's response, threaten Americans with imprisonment for mentioning it. Then the same AG meets with husband of a known criminal running for nation's highest office a couple of days before FBI confirms she's guilty of the crime she was under investigation for yet she's not a criminal :confused: :mad:! Now put yourself in the shoes of an officer who knows that no matter what he's going to get crucified for doing his job, this same terrorist loving corrupt AG is going to go after him fronted by our beloved president if the perp is black, followed by the circus and its ringmasters Sharpton and Jackson. Why are these clowns given so much free reign to spread racism, violence and incite mob rule while even the officer's identity isn't protected even before proof of any guilt. Lee is right, its very difficult for police to their job these days and guess who gets hurt while they're hesitant to step in...

david

Lee,

I wholeheartedly agree that the police are under-appreciated and have an extremely difficult job. I would respectfully argue that the your post illustrates a significant cultural problem we have nurtured in this country; we have lost sight of the basic principle that the police are the public and the public are the police. Here are the original Peelian principles of policing enunciated when the London Police Department was formed in the early 19th century (policing is a relatively modern profession):

The nine principles were as follows:
 
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ddk

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Bob no one denies that there are really bad people in the police force but you can't just assume guilt or innocence willy nilly based on the race of the individuals involved.

david

Lee, I'm going to remain with this new case only. To see if there was proper justification to kill that 32-year old young motorist.

I just watched couple dozen videos of unarmed citizens shot dead and even raped in court by police officers! It is truly disgusting.
You guys can google like anyone else, and see for yourself. Texas seems to be a good spot for bad cops, among other states.

But because you posted that just above...

I can post hundreds more video of cops brutality and killing unarmed citizens.
I tell you this, it makes me real sick that in my own neighborhood to have psycho cop killers and rapists like that!
They used their power to decide who dies for no good reason other.

Yes, I know, there are bad people out there, and we as citizens we have a right to protect and defend ourselves against cops who rape, who kill, who use deadly force.
Who the heck they think they are! ...Above the law! It's time those cops get serious training for the job they're paid to do; get rid of real criminals, not innocent citizens.
Those just few videos above show zero brain from all those cops; they are a dangerous and lethal menace to the protection of our citizens.

You're going to need strong arguments to deny those facts Lee.
______

Anyway, it's the first link that I posted earlier that I wanted to discuss and find more about. I made the effort to no over saturate your thread with more unjustified "self-defense" killings by cops. You brought that test above; that's only one of my replies.
There is no doubt that there are many bad cops, and in America...in the United States of America included.

And that camera thing, it's better to have them than none. I trust our American judges to have an objective assessment of their own, and the lawyers and prosecutors to do their honest job with integrity. Because if I don't who will?
_______

But yes, I'll wait to see what happens next with that Minnesota's shooting of that young black driver by a cop.
This is not a court of law, it's a thread about Self Defense, justified or not by cops in this country. ...Traffic stops.
And it's not about Oscar Pistorious who they said could be released only after a year for good behavior, and put free on probation because the jails are overcrowded.
But then, was Oscar Pistorious justified to use self defense/deadly force with a pistol against a closed bathroom door (invisible entity) where his girlfriend went to protect herself against a tumultuous deranged boyfriend?

The violence across this globe is just unbelievable! Our education systems are failing more of us than helping us. ...And cops need better education, more training, and more cameras.
 

RBFC

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I will leave it at this, because there are incidents of misuse of power and outright criminal conduct by a very small number of police officers. If we stop to consider the MILLIONS of positive interactions between police and citizens (criminal and otherwise), there can be no denying that poor behavior is a real, but statistically small, problem. In the same way that ACTUAL medical malpractice occurs in a very small percentage of patient interactions, true abuse of power by police elicits the same outrage regardless of likelihood.

Bob, I agree that there have been some very bad acts committed by police officers. Addressing these issues will require a cool, emotionless approach, lest we allow our judgement to turn our oversight of police into a "racist/profiling"-like endeavor. In any group, there exists a small percentage of those who would color our opinion of that group. We certainly find that tolerance in our approach to racism and gay rights (for example), so we must apply the same love and understanding that bolsters up the good individuals in any group.

Lee
 

NorthStar

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By the way Lee, that video test you posted last; I passed it with flying colors.
And that was great you posted it...excellent.

I made good use of the officer's video cam; all my answers were correct. But @ waist's height is not correct; it should be mounted @ shoulder's height, and have a movement sensor to aim @ the critical points and angles with advanced image stabilization and very fast focus response and acuity. They cannot use mickey mouse cameras, they have to be the latest high tech ones. That's good logic investment. The stakes are high.
* As to where the video cam should be mounted exactly, only tests would be able to determine the best emplacement for it (one or two).

And I first voted that I have somewhat good trust in police officers generally. So the prof didn't fool me, not my eyes, not my ears, not my mind.
_________

The young girl's video didn't have any segment of the actual shooting...only the aftermath.
And David made some excellent points on his very first reply. He was also right.
 

RBFC

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Bob,

You must refrain from considering every post a direct challenge to you. The link I posted is famous as many interpretations of bodycam footage HAVE resulted in the types of errors mentioned. Since you already knew the context under which I posted the link, and you had read the accompanying text in the article, you were pre-biased to interpret the bodycam footage as you did. For those with no preparatory information and no pre-existing assumption of "problematic interpretation", there were many mistakes made.

Bodycams are an excellent adjunct to police work. They do "police the police", but there have been exponentially more cases where they vindicate police use-of-force. They will almost certainly become standard issue, and rightfully so in my opinion.

Lee
 

NorthStar

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Lee, you have a totally wrong calibration as to my replies. I don't see any challenge...only an advancing discussion on an important matter.

And I knew nothing about that video test, but I did observe the videos very carefully few times before I answer, and even pausing them @ the right spots and reviewing those very short segments.
That was the very first time ever that I saw such a test. The context was super easy; the camera that I earlier mentioned.
I had zero bias. And I read along as I watched attentively the videos and answered the question; everything in the perfect manner of order.

Furthermore, I knew nothing about officers wearing them in some parts of the USA, or worldwide. It was logical for me to come with the idea after I watched so many of them police brutality videos.

I agree 100% with your second paragraph.

Cheers,
 

rockitman

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I will leave it at this, because there are incidents of misuse of power and outright criminal conduct by a very small number of police officers. If we stop to consider the MILLIONS of positive interactions between police and citizens (criminal and otherwise), there can be no denying that poor behavior is a real, but statistically small, problem. In the same way that ACTUAL medical malpractice occurs in a very small percentage of patient interactions, true abuse of power by police elicits the same outrage regardless of likelihood.

Well said Lee. The media can't function w/o a story. It's a great narrative between them and our President.
 

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NorthStar

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Bob, you must refrain from considering every post a direct challenge to you.

Lee

I am going to emphasize this point: I am not here @ WBF to challenge anyone or any idea. When I post in a thread it's because I am first very interested by the subject, and I love to share and advance with other members in those subjects of great interest.

Regards,
 

RBFC

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Bob et al

I am going to suggest that this is not the proper venue to discuss this especially when all the facts aren't known. Let's move on as I sense this can cause some heated political discussion

A great idea, as I posted in post #40 here, that much of the surrounding politics are not proper material for this forum.

Lee
 

NorthStar

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I made my best effort to remain within the confinements of "Self Defense" on the exact topic of what the thread had started with: Traffic Stop Cop video.
The guns are part of the self defense action used by cops. And the politics I always stay far away from them; I hate politics with a deep passion.
But I am also très realistic, and I understand the influence it has on our lives.

For example; a film like Eye in the Sky, if most of you have seen it; you'd certainly understand that a mature and intelligent discussion about this film doesn't go without involving the army general operating chief commander, and the high bureaucracy of our democratic electoral system with the highest posts. Our security and protection like anything else...taxes, status, classes, high rollers, oil, cars, natural resources, large companies, job creators, future markets, etc.; many decision makers are influencing our ways of living here in America.
But we don't need to talk about it, certainly not directly, and I abide fully by the rules of the forum. You mentioned my name personally, but Bob never referred to any politics @ all; zero, dip, nada. I have nil interest in it; my only great interest is self defense in justified circumstances. I know you didn't me personally, but because I am active in voicing my opinion I was easy to address...I guess.

This thread is a great thread; we brought the video cams into it as one of the very best solutions to resolve one of our biggest problems in our country.
And that young girl used it as her own selfish profit to justify her boyfriend's activity as a robber, a thief, and a gun carrier, which we don't yet know all the full details and lies told.
But we don't need to wait for the final verdict from a judge to talk about it, right. We just talk, we condemn no one, we judge no one till we're sure, then we can electrocute them all the guilty criminals with our amplifier's tubes. ...Shock treatments down below where it hurts most.

Again, I want NONE to do with politics,,,I HATE politics, and I stay away of it. I also stay away from sex, gender, race, colors and religions.
Read my posts, don't mention my name like if I was guilty of a violation (you wouldn't like it either, especially when you are a good person) and if you find a single post with a bias towards any one of those subjects, ban me right away.
But you won't find any, because I give zero importance to all that stuff in my life, the things I'm interested is science, music, films, happiness, joy, fun, toys, electronics, DACs, TTs, music recordings, Chet Baker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Blues, Van Morrison, fast cars, beautiful vistas, people, life, trees, mountains, oceans, Iceland, Greenland, Ireland, Argentina, Tango, Rio, Samba, Cuba, Jamaica, Reggae, Opera, Ballet, justice for all. If others want to kill themselves over drug trafficking, racketeering , dirty money laundry, ripping off, rape, sex trade, power control, beliefs, race, oil, ....all the things of hatred and discord and inequality and tyranny and disrespect towards gender, women, children, slavery, human and planet abuse, brutality, ...they got something else coming up their way; just like they treat others they'll be treated the same, and they shouldn't be surprised if we defend ourselves righteously.

Anyway, how can we turn away from offenders, no matter where they coming from. And in this last case here, that girl got few of us running her way.

We all have a right to defend ourselves against any type of oppression, harassment, violence, power control, demeaning human offenses, disrespect, ... and I agree that in North America our cops are generally good cops; only few give them a bad name. But corrupted cops is nothing new in cities like New York, Los Angeles, Miami, ...
And some cops in some southern states near the Mexican border, and other parts, are bad as snake's bites. I am amazed on the lack of education of many of them captured on videos. It reminds me of some parts of Mexico where I've been many years ago. Some Mexican cop's attitudes are from hundred years ago; prehistoric and without human values.
Some I said, many from our readings.

I've used to go with a girl with a family of several generations of police officers and chief (sheriff master). Lee knows probably more than all of us reunited together.
And this is one of his thread of expertise, and it's one of my great subjects of interest. And screw politics.
If someone mentioned politics, Lee is smart enough to assess the situation to see if it spills over in ways that nobody wants here @ WBF.
I have seen ZERO of that here in this thread; a little perhaps but nothing to fret about.
 
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