A New Genesis in progress

garylkoh

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Designing a new loudspeaker is not something that's done overnight. First, all the calculations to get to a crossover that would theoretically be "perfect". Easy enough.

Next, comes hours and hours of listening and adjusting the crossover. Capacitor choice and inductor orientation makes a big difference in the final sound. Does it sound better to use a 4.7uF 400V cap or a 4.7uF 600V cap? How about a 4.5uF cap paralleled with a 0.2uF cap? Inductor with the signal running clockwise or counter-clockwise?

Sometimes, I end up listening to the same 30 seconds of a track (either on digital or vinyl) upwards of a thousand times. You can imagine how mind-numbingly boring that can get. And then, your mind starts playing tricks on you - did that change really make it sound worse, or have you reached the threshold where you are beginning to hate that song???

One of the ways I get around this is to pick up some new music..... which is why a stack of LPs appeared at the door a couple of days ago, and there will be more appearing. Since much of the comparison at this stage is about subtle differences, using new music doesn't compromise the design process. I am listening to differences.

Stack of Discs.jpg


However, any musical source being used MUST be well recorded.

This is what "work in progress" looks like. I solder components on and off the board when music is playing - which means that any amplifier I use must not only drive any loudspeaker impedance load, but must recover from a short circuit without blowing fuses.

Work in progress.jpg
 

garylkoh

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Here's one of the albums I pulled out of that stack above. Big Band is particularly challenging in the early phase of loudspeaker design, because if the crossover doesn't work right, the band doesn't "hang together" right.

Atomic Basie.jpg


I'll probably re-visit this disc some time later.... in a week or two, but another disc is already sounding quite acceptable. This is the original direct-to-disk from 1976. The later 1977 re-issue is from analog tape.

The Three.jpg
 

garylkoh

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This next one's an interesting choice. The way my sister put it was:

Listening to some of Gary's new LPs. Some guy singing in French... with some chick interjecting "Je T'aime" in a high pitched breathy squeak. Was getting annoying but it went to downright hilarious in the next track where the breathy sighs and interjections became "Orang Utan" ... What on earth? ROFL! Must investigate.

I'll bet that just from the above, the majority of readers on this board must already know the album.

On the first pass, it sounded quite dispassionate and detached - so it is either the crossover not being transparent enough, or may be it's because it is a re-issue.

Jane.jpg

Interesting snippet about this album: the original sighs and whispers were recorded in a steamy, sweaty vocal booth between Bridgette Bardot (who was married at the time) and Serge Gainsbourg. Throughout the session, the sound engineer claimed that there was inappropriate conduct going on. Since she was married, they had to shelve this version.

Gainsbourg subsequently convinced British actress Jane Birkin to do it, and the sighs and whispers were recorded with a microphone under the bed where there was inappropriate conduct between Jane and Serge......
 

LL21

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Setting aside the music which is very cool...tell us a bit more about the speaker at this early stage. Are you envisioning all-new, start from scratch and design from the ground up...or is this a major modification of an existing design...like a "Genesis 1.3"?

Is this all-out assault, no-holds-barred, crush the 1.2 into fine dust? Or ridiculous steal for the money, incredible performance in even small rooms so everyone can enjoy a bit of the super high end?
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Setting aside the music which is very cool...tell us a bit more about the speaker at this early stage. Are you envisioning all-new, start from scratch and design from the ground up...or is this a major modification of an existing design...like a "Genesis 1.3"?

Is this all-out assault, no-holds-barred, crush the 1.2 into fine dust? Or ridiculous steal for the money, incredible performance in even small rooms so everyone can enjoy a bit of the super high end?

The Genesis Dragon was just released last year, so it's not an upgrade of the G1.2. Incredible performance in small rooms I already have with the G7.2f.

This is a completely new category of speaker for Genesis.
 

LL21

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The Genesis Dragon was just released last year, so it's not an upgrade of the G1.2. Incredible performance in small rooms I already have with the G7.2f.

This is a completely new category of speaker for Genesis.

Where are you placing this one in terms of the hierarchy of absolute performance? Above the Dragon?
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
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Where are you placing this one in terms of the hierarchy of absolute performance? Above the Dragon?

Below the Dragon - designed to work for a smaller room which would be otherwise too small for a G2.2 or G1.2.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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A non-audiophile speaker with Duelund caps????? :D
 

LL21

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Below the Dragon - designed to work for a smaller room which would be otherwise too small for a G2.2 or G1.2.

Sounds like the sweetspot for a lot of people. I think one of the reasons certain SOTA speakers have sold particularly well is that they manage to get nearly all the SOTA performance you could possibly want...but in a size that works well within more home environments.

There is a big difference between a 6' speaker...and a 7.3' speaker. Most any ceiling should accommodate a 5.5'-6' speaker...but over 7' is a different matter particularly in city apartments where they can drop below 8'. A 19" wide speaker is also very different from a 25"-36" wide speaker that is also nearly as deep.

If Genesis can get just inside that 'most any room' category...and deliver comparably SOTA purity and quality (if not scale)...that would be fantastic.
 
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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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www.genesisloudspeakers.com
There is a big difference between a 6' speaker...and a 7' speaker. Most any ceiling should accommodate a 5.5'-6' speaker...but 7' is a different matter particularly in city apartments where they can drop below 8'. A 19" wide speaker is also very different from a 25"-36" wide speaker that is also nearly as deep.

If Genesis can get just inside that 'most any room' category...and deliver comparably SOTA purity and quality (if not scale)...that would be fantastic.

Yes.... and I'm trying to get it to deliver the scale too.
 

NorthStar

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Feb 8, 2011
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This next one's an interesting choice. The way my sister put it was:

"Listening to some of Gary's new LPs, some guy (Serge Gainsbourg) singing in French... with some chick (Jane Birkin) interjecting "Je t'aime" in a sensual pitched 'making love' type of squeak, was getting subliminal but it went downright "falling in love all over again for the very first time" by re-cuing the same track where the sensuality became the real act of "Love-Making" through vocal interjections and musical compassion. ... What on Earth! Seriously, it is beautiful! Must investigate."

I'll bet that just from the above, the majority of readers on this board must already know the album.

On the first pass, it sounded quite dispassionate and detached - so it is either the crossover not being transparent enough, or may be it's because it is a re-issue.

View attachment 10421

And your sister was quite right. ;)




Interesting snippet about this album: the original sighs and whispers were recorded in a steamy, sweaty vocal booth between Bridgette Bardot (who was married at the time) and Serge Gainsbourg. Throughout the session, the sound engineer claimed that there was inappropriate conduct going on. Since she was married, they had to shelve this version.

Gainsbourg subsequently convinced British actress Jane Birkin to do it, and the sighs and whispers were recorded with a microphone under the bed where there was inappropriate conduct between Jane and Serge......

How cool is that! :cool:

* Yeah, French people like I we know Serge Gainsbourg, Jane Birkin, & Brigitte Bardot. ...Claudia Cardinale too. ...And Charles Aznavour. ...And Gilbert Becaud. And some of us we have several albums of them, and we even met some of them in person.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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www.genesisloudspeakers.com
If I only used female vocals for designing a pair of loudspeakers, I might end up with something that would be magical for female voices and small ensembles, but might not work for anything else.

Hence, it's not only a steady stream of jazz and classical music, but almost every genre of music would be coursing through my design system during the 6 months or more of a design. Serge Gainsbourg irritated my sister, so I switched to something more interesting.

Big Beat is a genre of music that utilize breakbeats (beats outside of the conventional 4/4 rhythm) with acid-house style synthesizer lines. It tends to include huge crescendos, sound effects like police sirens and explosions, drum rolls (often extended and distorted) and samples and loops. It's a great test of the macro-dynamic ability of any loudspeaker and actually makes great demo music. Artists include The Crystal Method, Fatboy Slim, and the Propellerheads.

Decksanddrumsandrockandroll is the only full-length album by the Propellerheads and a great test of the dynamic ability of the loudspeaker. I take this out only when I'm sure that the impedance dips in the crossover doesn't take out my amplifier......

Props.jpg
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Yes.... and I'm trying to get it to deliver the scale too.

Having heard (and raved) about the Genesis 1.1s, please put me on the early audition request list!
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Felix, are you going to RMAF? I'm trying to move some other appointments around and come to just hang out. I'm not showing this year.

Lloyd, I'm trying my best to get a good UK distributor - but this year I'm pretty tied up with new distributors in Japan and also US/Canada.
 

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