Vinyl record lifespan

sombunya

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2012
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What made me wonder was this; I picked up a 45 rpm from a flat surface and my fingernail accidentally scratched the record lightly.

Compared to a diamond stylus a fingernail is as soft as cotton ball, yet records can easily be scratched with one.

So I'm wondering how a record can be played more than a few times and not have the groove ironed out by this unbelievably hard tipped stylus?
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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I'm going to take a stab at this one. Your question on the face of it makes sense...until that is you realize that the stylus tip is supposed to fit into the groove and NOT modify the groove in any way ( at least that's the theory in a perfect world).
IF the stylus tip is NOT fitting the groove, then you could well be modifying the groove, which will lead to distortion ( and in fact unless the stylus is faceted correctly and isn't damaged by either a) the facets having been worn off or b) the stylus tracking at too high or too low a force...creating mis-tracking and possibly skipping, then damage will occur). Remember that a mis-tracking or damaged stylus tip will damage a record on the first play.
OTOH, even IF the stylus is correct in all manner, some minor wear does in fact accrue to the record over time....I don't think anyone truly knows when the actual onset of wear occurs ( whether it be on play one or on play ten or one hundred) but it is a fact of life that LP's do NOT last forever as far as their ORIGINAL sound from the press. BTW, IF you think your fingernail scratches the record, take a look at what some of the old Multi-play changers did to a record when the owner accidentally moved the tonearm across the record without the cartridge having left the surface....the noise alone would waken the neighbor's, LOL.
 

NorthStar

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Feb 8, 2011
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But then, most audiophile vinyl music listeners they never talk about that as they don't seem to notice anything missing, even after many many plays.
Also, they simply buy the latest and greatest remasterings on 200gr and 45rpm. :b

Real audiophiles don't play music on vintage gear, and they don't even open their albums as they become more valuable with time when in mint condition.
Everything they play is on the best and latest gear, and their albums are the ones they aren't afraid to play on them. ...The ones they are used too with time and with time they conditioned themselves to the wear and tear. ...Adaptation to a less than perfect world; the analog world. ;) :D

* Great post just above Davey! ...And how very true it is!
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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What made me wonder was this; I picked up a 45 rpm from a flat surface and my fingernail accidentally scratched the record lightly.

Compared to a diamond stylus a fingernail is as soft as cotton ball, yet records can easily be scratched with one.

So I'm wondering how a record can be played more than a few times and not have the groove ironed out by this unbelievably hard tipped stylus?

I've never heard of a fingernail scratching a record. Do you put diamond or Rockwell 30,000 tips on your fingernails? Sound pretty fishy to me.
 

sombunya

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2012
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I've never heard of a fingernail scratching a record. Do you put diamond or Rockwell 30,000 tips on your fingernails? Sound pretty fishy to me.
Just normal fingernails. When I say "scratched", I mean there's a mark on the vinyl that will not wipe off. Haven't checked to see if it's audible but I doubt it is.

I just grabbed a mid 80's LP (one of my wife's) and tried to scratch the trail-off area, repeatedly, nothing. I didn't get medieval on it, just tried scratching it and the dead wax is clear. I then ran my nail across the groove area and checked it with a Loupe. There is a mark on it that will be there forever. It won't wipe off either.

Try it.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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I cannot tell you how many LP's I have seen that have been damaged by someone putting their fingerprints and/or other deleterious stuff on them. Over time the oils and other gunk get so ingrained into the groove that no amount of cleaning can get this stuff out. Result, a noisy copy that can become unlistenable. Remember, in the day, there was a specific protocol of how one handled an LP, unfortunately most people had little idea what that was ( or as I witnessed many times, simply did NOT care). Today, i think most a'philes know how to handle an album, but in the LP's prime..:eek:
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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I cannot tell you how many LP's I have seen that have been damaged by someone putting their fingerprints and/or other deleterious stuff on them. Over time the oils and other gunk get so ingrained into the groove that no amount of cleaning can get this stuff out. Result, a noisy copy that can become unlistenable. Remember, in the day, there was a specific protocol of how one handled an LP, unfortunately most people had little idea what that was ( or as I witnessed many times, simply did NOT care). Today, i think most a'philes know how to handle an album, but in the LP's prime..:eek:

record spinners in Japan got it. When a seller from Japan says a record is NM, it plays NM in my experience.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
Christian, that's interesting:). However, what vintage of LP are you receiving from Japan? I have collected LP's from all over the world and it doesn't seem to make too much difference where the LP came from. Jazz in particular seems to have led a rather hard life, regardless of where it was sourced:(. Classical a little less so. BTW, IF you want to see how badly an LP can get treated, look at some of the rarer 70's rock stuff...G- is the norm:(
 

Shaffer

New Member
Nov 2, 2012
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Just normal fingernails. When I say "scratched", I mean there's a mark on the vinyl that will not wipe off. Haven't checked to see if it's audible but I doubt it is.

I just grabbed a mid 80's LP (one of my wife's) and tried to scratch the trail-off area, repeatedly, nothing. I didn't get medieval on it, just tried scratching it and the dead wax is clear. I then ran my nail across the groove area and checked it with a Loupe. There is a mark on it that will be there forever. It won't wipe off either.

Try it.

You're describing surface marring. It's an effect very similar to, say, swirled paint on a car. A scratch goes a lot deeper, as with automotive finishes. IOW, surface marring is cosmetic property.
 

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