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Thread: Cone break up , ... tweeter ringing ???

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    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] andromedaaudio's Avatar
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    Cone break up , ... tweeter ringing ???

    As steve proposed a thread about .. cone break up .
    First simply explained how the loudspeaker works .
    The music signal is a varying alternating current/voltage , this creates a changing magnetic field in the voice coil .
    Together with the permanent magnet in the speakerunit this is "" the motor"" of the membrane .
    The voice coil gets attracted and distracted/reppeld to/from the permanent magnet.
    A LS unit is optimised for a certain freq area in the case of a (metal )dome tweeter for example 2,5 khz -20 khz http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=...=76&Itemid=100
    this graphic shows a metal dome with break up at around 20 -30 - 40 khz , metal can break up quite drastic but the units keep getting better , berylium is an example http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d3004-664000.pdf hardly any violent break up there
    When a cone breaks up its not able to follow the music signal accurately anymore and starts to make uncontrolled swings .
    Same goes for bass units(or mid units) made of hard materials / metal in this case aluminium , they can also break up quite drastic , example aluminium versus paper http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/26w-4867t00.pdf

    http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/26w-8861t00.pdf

    One way of dealing with that is to use higher order filters with steeper slopes , so to make the break ups "" more "" inaudible , another way is to use for example high quality paper units which break up more friendly in general and use simple filters (less phase problems )
    Assuming though most people hear nothing higher than 20 khz , so whats the problem
    Point is you dont want these break ups to be audible , this also the reason there is a specific unit made for a specific freq area .

    This is the high freq unit i use at the moment ,smoother than berylium virtually no break up although it doesnt extend as much http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d3004-662000.pdf
    These are reasons i stepped away from the use of hard materials in LS units.
    or this one a ringradiator soft dome http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/r3004-662000.pdf, although it has a little more break up its a soft dome also thus sounds different then a metal one , also quite extended
    Last edited by andromedaaudio; 06-22-2013 at 02:26 PM.

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    I know my W/P 7 system used to suffer from the ringing. It would create listener fatigue where I could only master on them, without getting a headache, for a couple of hours. On the other hand, I also have Focal speakers with the berylium tweeters and can sit in from of the 10-12 hours doing Post movie work and still feel my ears are fresh.
    Bruce A. Brown
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    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] andromedaaudio's Avatar
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    Focal did give more or less the upstart for berylium membranes with the grande utopia be iirc , it then went on from there.
    And what about the new alexias , i bet they are very listenable ??
    Last edited by andromedaaudio; 06-23-2013 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andromedaaudio View Post
    And what about the new alexias , i bet they are very listenable ??
    I did 3 mastering sessions in one day and still went in after it was all over to just 'listen' to some more music. Priceless!!
    Bruce A. Brown
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    Addicted to Best! DaveyF's Avatar
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    Bruce, what you say about the new tweeter in the Alexia's doesn't surprise me at all. IMO, the old Focal driver was exactly as you describe it, I couldn't listen to it for any length of time without getting listener fatigue. With a silk dome, that simply doesn't apply. Kudo's to Wilson for finally seeing the light ( or hearing the "ringing", LOL). I have to question why it took them so long to change though. I do think that in some ways they owe their old and loyal customer's an upgrade path to the new tweeter. At a price, retrofit should be accomplishable, IMO.

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    Site Founder And Administrator Steve Williams's Avatar
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    At a price, retrofit should be accomplishable, IMO
    You would think but I doubt it well ever happen.I wouldn't be surprised as well to see the X2 discontinued at some point in the product line much the same as the X-1 was with the release of the X2
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    Addicted to Best! DaveyF's Avatar
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    Steve, I wonder if enough owners of the old tweeter were to "suggest" or to "demand" to DW and his group that a retrofit be offered and to "suggest" that it could be PROFITABLE to accommodate such a retrofit; that maybe DW would relent and offer it. Just a thought Obviously enough owner's would have to desire the upgrade and a) make it worth DW's time and b) co-operate on the request ( probably a lot easier said than done, OTOH one never knows). BTW, are you listening Debby W, LOL.

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    Site Founder And Administrator Steve Williams's Avatar
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    I spoke to DW about that very issue when the speaker was shown initially as a static display at RMAF. I was told that due to changes in cabinet size as well as size of tweeter as well as different crossovers it wasn't doable

    I do remember the X-1 Series V update before the X-1 was phased out
    Steve Williams
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    There's ALWAYS another Steve Williams BUT there's only "oneobgyn"
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    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] andromedaaudio's Avatar
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    But still wilson chose not to do it on the x2 , it uses a 1 inch soft dome or soft dome ringradiator at the back , scanspeak iirc .
    Softdomes whether silk or not have been around a long looooong time.
    So the X2 does have a soft dome already it might take over where the focal starts to get in trouble just under 20 khz, or just ambient i dont know.
    Does the xlf has a ambient tw also ?? i ll look it up

    Yes the xlf has 2 silkdomes both 1 inch , the ambienttweeter type on the x 2 is not mentioned on the site
    Last edited by andromedaaudio; 06-23-2013 at 01:44 PM.

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    I wouldn't be surprised if they all together dropped the MAXX3 and created an all new speaker in the ~$90-$100k range. A sweet spot between the Alexia and XLF.
    Bruce A. Brown
    Puget Sound Studios
    Stereomojo reviewer
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