Fleetwood Mac - Rumours...Best Version

rockitman

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I have three versions, 1977 BSK 3010 (Textured cover), Steve Hoffman's 45 rpm reissue and the European (Pallas press) 45 rpm version. The consensus seems to point to the original 1997 version. I directly compared the 1977 and Hoffman's and I find the Hoffman version to be significantly better. Much better bass reproduction (tape like extension) versus the more layed back , flatter sounding 1977 version. Perhaps the Hoffman version has the perception of a bass bump, reminiscent of the Japan Mofi's ? As mention by Mike L, the Old Mofi's hav much clearer bass with the advent of active isolation...I have confirmed this. Perhaps I am getting the same effect with the Hoffman version ? I have yet to compare the Euro version. Is that version digitally remastered ?
 

treitz3

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Hello, Christian. The best digital version that I have is the DVD-A but I have not compared it to the ones you have listed in the post above. Just two releases of RB CD's. I know that probably doesn't help you much but I thought I'd throw out what limited experience I have had with the digital versions. Great album BTW. This has gotten regular rotation throughout the years.

[EDIT:] My apologies. I see that you posted this in the analog forum. I will have to pay better attention next time. DOH! :(

Tom
 

rockitman

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Hello, Christian. The best digital version that I have is the DVD-A but I have not compared it to the ones you have listed in the post above. Just two releases of RB CD's. I know that probably doesn't help you much but I thought I'd throw out what limited experience I have had with the digital versions. Great album BTW. This has gotten regular rotation throughout the years.

[EDIT:] My apologies. I see that you posted this in the analog forum. I will have to pay better attention next time. DOH! :(

Tom

Thanks for your input anyway Tom. I just saw the band 2 nights ago. All original rumors cast save for Christine McVie who is retired from touring. It was a solid show. Lindsay Buckingham continued to kick out the licks and Stevie sounded pretty good in lieu of her limited range.
 

jazdoc

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Thanks for your input anyway Tom. I just saw the band 2 nights ago. All original rumors cast save for Christine McVie who is retired from touring. It was a solid show. Lindsay Buckingham continued to kick out the licks and Stevie sounded pretty good in lieu of her limited range.

How many times did Stevie duck off-stage to do a line or two?
 

rbbert

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Hello, Christian. The best digital version that I have is the DVD-A but I have not compared it to the ones you have listed in the post above. Just two releases of RB CD's. I know that probably doesn't help you much but I thought I'd throw out what limited experience I have had with the digital versions. Great album BTW. This has gotten regular rotation throughout the years.

[EDIT:] My apologies. I see that you posted this in the analog forum. I will have to pay better attention next time. DOH! :(

Tom

FWIW, the SACD has slightly better mastering than the DVD-A as well as including Silver Springs, although from spectral analysis that track is upconverted 16/44.1.

Now back to the LP discussion...
 

Andre Marc

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FWIW, the SACD has slightly better mastering than the DVD-A as well as including Silver Springs, although from spectral analysis that track is upconverted 16/44.1.

Now back to the LP discussion...

The DVD-A is a remix from the analog mutitracks, just as the Grateful Dead DVD-A's, were. So impossible to
compare apples to apples. I don't believe Silver Springs was upconverted.

The recent 35th anniv CD box set is SUPERB..original mix, amazing remaster. There is a 96/24 download of the
35th anniv remaster on HDtracks.
 

rbbert

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The DVD-A is a remix from the analog mutitracks, just as the Grateful Dead DVD-A's, were. So impossible to
compare apples to apples. I don't believe Silver Springs was upconverted.

The recent 35th anniv CD box set is SUPERB..original mix, amazing remaster. There is a 96/24 download of the
35th anniv remaster on HDtracks.

Well, there's not much question Silver Springs is upconverted: it has a radically different frequency spectrum than the rest of the SACD, and if you take a look at HDtracks you'll see that Silver Springs is 16/44.1, unlike the rest of the album.

The mastering for the SACD and the DVD-A stereo is almost identical, both are brickwalled at just over -1 dB, the SACD sounds marginally smoother, and I think the DR values are the same (and not that great).
 

Andre Marc

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Well, there's not much question Silver Springs is upconverted: it has a radically different frequency spectrum than the rest of the SACD, and if you take a look at HDtracks you'll see that Silver Springs is 16/44.1, unlike the rest of the album.

The mastering for the SACD and the DVD-A stereo is almost identical, both are brickwalled at just over -1 dB, the SACD sounds marginally smoother, and I think the DR values are the same (and not that great).

I stand corrected on Silver Springs. My guess it there was no surviving, usable master. The other tracks, however, are remixed for sure.

The origin of the SACD is questionable. Are there any specific liner notes as to lineage?
 

Steve Williams

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I remember sitting row AAA in the Pit at what is now called the Verizon media Center in Irvine Ca back in the early 80's. I had a direct view to her off stage and saw her do exactly that but who can deny the magnetism between Stevie and Lindsay Buckingham or Mick coming down stage with his electronic wireless keyboard vest and began playing. One of my favorite groups of all time.

IMO the 35th Anniversary has the best version of Christie McVie singing Oh Daddy
 

treitz3

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I remember sitting row AAA in the Pit at what is now called the Verizon media Center in Irvine Ca back in the early 80's.

Wouldn't that be the best version? :)

Tom
 

rbbert

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I stand corrected on Silver Springs. My guess it there was no surviving, usable master. The other tracks, however, are remixed for sure.

The origin of the SACD is questionable. Are there any specific liner notes as to lineage?

The booklet says mastered by Bob Ludwig in 24/96 in Portland, ME, also mastered by Ken Caillat and Ken Perry at K-disc. So I think the SACD is just slightly tweaked from the DVD-A, as per my original comments.

I suspect the new HDtracks version in the "Deluxe Box" is somewhat better, although pricey considering most (all?) buyers already have the 2nd and 3rd discs, and the 4th seems pretty much a throwaway.
 

Andre Marc

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The booklet says mastered by Bob Ludwig in 24/96 in Portland, ME, also mastered by Ken Caillat and Ken Perry at K-disc. So I think the SACD is just slightly tweaked from the DVD-A, as per my original comments.

I suspect the new HDtracks version in the "Deluxe Box" is somewhat better, although pricey considering most (all?) buyers already have the 2nd and 3rd discs, and the 4th seems pretty much a throwaway.

agree on all points. it seems the SACD is essentially the upsampled DVD-A.

the HDtracks offering is most definitely the original mix. I would say those who opt for the download probably did not buy the Expanded Edition
or are will to pay up for the 96 Khz version. it should be noted they also offer the DVD-A remix (Rhini) as a 96 Khz download.

adds credence to my position that anyone who thinks that DSD downloads are the future is delusional.
 

Mike Lavigne

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here are 2 posts I made in 2011 on this subject on audioasylum.

my 15ips 1/4" of Rumours is very very good too.

******

i have maybe 10 pressings of Rumours, the Nautilus is mid-pack.....yet it's not chopped liver.
i purchased 2 of the Hoffmann/Gray 45rpm pressings.

my early pressing "'mastered by capital' KP" in the deadwax is way better than the 45 and destroys the Nautilus. the OP has a 'life' and sparkle to the mid range and overall clarity and vividness that is wonderful. the 45 is 'nice' but a bit muffled and fat in the bass in direct comparison. it does have good energy and space. i do recommend the 45 over the Nautilus.

it is a tribute to this recording that many pressings of Rumours still sound quite good yet are not close to an OP.

it's great music.

*****

besides 'mastered by capital' and 'KP'(Ken Perry mastered Palm Tree Lable), mine has matrix numbers of 'BSK-3010-F16'. the matrix number you want is the 'BSK-3010' part and then there are numrous codes for pressing runs.
you also want a textured cover, and heavy vinyl. if its a smooth cover or a thin pressing it's not early.

below is a link to an article about an early promo copy which is intersting. the 'promo' copy has that same 'BSK-3010' matrix code that mine has.

happy hunting!

mikel
 

rockitman

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here are 2 posts I made in 2011 on this subject on audioasylum.

my 15ips 1/4" of Rumours is very very good too.

******

i have maybe 10 pressings of Rumours, the Nautilus is mid-pack.....yet it's not chopped liver.
i purchased 2 of the Hoffmann/Gray 45rpm pressings.

my early pressing "'mastered by capital' KP" in the deadwax is way better than the 45 and destroys the Nautilus. the OP has a 'life' and sparkle to the mid range and overall clarity and vividness that is wonderful. the 45 is 'nice' but a bit muffled and fat in the bass in direct comparison. it does have good energy and space. i do recommend the 45 over the Nautilus.

it is a tribute to this recording that many pressings of Rumours still sound quite good yet are not close to an OP.

it's great music.

*****

besides 'mastered by capital' and 'KP'(Ken Perry mastered Palm Tree Lable), mine has matrix numbers of 'BSK-3010-F16'. the matrix number you want is the 'BSK-3010' part and then there are numrous codes for pressing runs.
you also want a textured cover, and heavy vinyl. if its a smooth cover or a thin pressing it's not early.

below is a link to an article about an early promo copy which is intersting. the 'promo' copy has that same 'BSK-3010' matrix code that mine has.

happy hunting!

mikel

Thanks Mike. I will look for KP. I recommend replaying the Hoffman version again with the advent of the TS-140...muffled and flat disappears.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Thanks Mike. I will look for KP. I recommend replaying the Hoffman version again with the advent of the TS-140...muffled and flat disappears.

in a relative sense, a high tide raises all ships.

whatever it adds to the 45 it will also add to the OP. the relative performance remains.

but respectfully I will try it and listen with an open mind.
 

Dre_J

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Christian,

I have two copies of what Mike describes below:

besides 'mastered by capital' and 'KP'(Ken Perry mastered Palm Tree Lable), mine has matrix numbers of 'BSK-3010-F16'. the matrix number you want is the 'BSK-3010' part and then there are numrous codes for pressing runs.
you also want a textured cover, and heavy vinyl. if its a smooth cover or a thin pressing it's not early.

mikel

The exception is that mine are thin(ner) copies to me. They are probably the standard thickness of the day which was typically on the thin side during the late 70's.

One of my copies BSK-1-3010-F19 is a LA, California pressing. Sounds good
The other copy BSK-1-3010 WW2 F11 #4 is a Jacksonville, Illinois pressing. This one sounds significantly better.

Both pressings sound great played normally. However if you are able flip the phase in your Pass chain easily, it may fill in a bit more and add some solidity. I can easily hear this with my setup. This may be hit and miss as the system and speaker design may prefer one over the other or there may be not noticeable difference at all. That being said it may be worth a try. There is one last tip you could try quite easily with your Phantom if you are interested but it's a long shot and you may not see any value in it for this record. I'd try the phase flip first. I'm guessing your pass has a phase inversion switch somewhere in the chain. I didn't go looking for it so I'm not sure.

I don't have the 45's to compare but I can at least let you know that the standard first pressings are many and can sound different. From my perspective, it is no different from the shaded dog RCA's and which stamper you get...

Dre
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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Best version I have is the 35th Anniversary remaster
I ripped a friend's 35th Anniversary CD and sadly, although the mastering is very slightly different than the DVD-A/SACD ( a little more treble, a little less bass), the dynamics are virtually identical.

Sorry for the interruption, back to vinyl...
 

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