VTL 7.5 MK II preamplifier

marty

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Before we get going here, let me say right off that there are two things that really upset me when I read reviews of stereo equipment. First, is the fact that we never, ever, see a review by an owner that says, in essence “the last piece of gear I had is actually better than the piece I’m using now.” Second, we have been reading reviews of audio gear for decades which are ripe with incremental descriptors such as “the bass is far more articulated and tighter…the highs are much more transparent and clear…one can hear the space between instruments much better” etc., than our previous references. We read these reviews monthly, so naturally one would think that after reading such remarks after 30 years, we must be talking about the cumulative differences that surely must make the older gear look like “two Dixie cups and string” compared to having live performers in one’s listening room with the modern equivalent. Yet as we know, that is hardly the case.

Sure, equipment has improved incrementally and even by relatively big leaps at times. Still, one gets the idea that after reading about these “astonishing” improvements in sound with almost every new review, something must be terribly wrong since the gap between "live" and "reproduced" is always obvious and a no-brainer. It is, in effect, like saying that one’s objective is to exit a room by leaving through a doorway, yet what we really mean in audio -review speak is that we hope to exit a room by marching 50% towards the door with each step. Shouldn’t we realize the foolishness and futility of using language in reviewing audio gear that culminates in a rave or suggests “being blown away” by our new equipment compared to the old gear each and every time we make the comparison? Yet we do it over and over again. And we have been doing it not only for years, but for decades. In order to make sense of this, I suppose we should just say that we simply exaggerate very minor differences in sound equipment and blow them out of proportion in the prose and parlance of audio reviewing. Nothing you can say in reviewing the different sonic attributes of say a Marantz Model 9 of yesteryear and say, a VTL Siegfried, a modern day marvel, is going to make it as though the New York Philharmonic really appeared in your listening room with one device but was totally absent with the other. So let’s set the record straight. Audio reviewers generally reference small sonic differences that look huge under a microscope, but are in reality far less dramatic or intensely different when they appear in the real world of the home listening environment in comparison to the real thing. With that in mind, I’d like to describe my recent experience with the VTL 7.5MkII preamp.

It was less than year ago that I upgraded preamps from the Audio Research Ref 3 to the Ref 5. If you would have told me that within that time, I would feel any need whatsoever to change preamplifiers again, or to even think there would be any merit whatsoever in doing so, I would have said you were nuts. After all, I just went from a darn good preamp to a slightly better preamp so what was there to gain by changing preamps yet again? As one who for decades has always operated on the principal that one should target and upgrade the weakest link in one’s system, surely I could have spent my money more wisely elsewhere? But in May something totally delightful and unanticipated occurred. I happen to be in the South Florida area for a medical meeting, and is my custom, I often visit hi-end audio stores to see and hear stuff that I ordinarily don’t have access to in my hometown (DFW). So it was that I stopped by David Zuker’s Sound Experience in Boca Raton. Part of the “delightful and unanticipated” part was discovering that David is the rarest of breeds- an audio dealer that knows what the hell he is doing. (It’s like a good massage. After you suffer through a lot of bad ones, the good ones become obvious). Ok, so David is cool. But in fact, I generally do these sorts of visits and never really plan buying anything (big groan from the dealers out there, I’m sure), since most of the time I leave unimpressed. But this time was different. David is of those dealers who takes pride in just letting you hear a system that he thinks is the cats’ meow. So we went into the inner sanctum sanctorum (i.e. the back room) to take advantage of his generosity and started listening. And what I heard was good. In fact, damn good. Boulder memory player, VTL 7.5 Mk II preamp, Siegfried amp, Scaena loudspeakers, Transparent cabling. But what I was wrestling with was trying to understand why the sound was not just good, but uncannily good. After all, I had Pipedreams (the cognescenti will know the Scaena’s similarities to Pipedreams) and have heard Scaenas at the shows. I therefore knew that it and the Siegfrieds were probably not the reasons I was so highly impressed. I also had some show experience with the Boulder (I have a Meitner CDSA) and knew the Transparents (I use Valhalla interconnects and Kubala Elation speaker cables), so I didn’t think those were the culprits. What it came down to then, was the pre-amp. Could that have been the reason I was so impressed? Well, if you were good at taking standardized tests in school, then you know that has to be the right answer or why else would I be writing this article? Still, it made no sense to me. But I know what I heard. To cut to the chase, I bought the VTL 7.5 II shortly after my visit.

I’ve been living with this beautiful piece of gear for several weeks and think that I can now take a reasonable stab at its character. But first, another digression. Everybody knows that its pretty easy to tell the difference between a photograph and a live image, right? Everybody understands that a photograph is only a facsimile that can never, ever, be mistaken for the real thing. Why? Well, for one thing, when you look at a photograph you are looking at silver grains on paper, or the modern day equivalent in color dye paper processing. My point is that there is a grain that is present in a photograph that is not present in live images and it is the perception of this “grain” by the human eye that in large part makes the distinction between a live and reproduced images obvious. By analogy, I think it’s pretty clear that we can usually tell the difference between live music and reproduced music. When you walk down the street and hear a live instrument coming from a second story apartment window, it’s generally very clear that the sound is not one of reproduced music. I propose that one of the qualities that allows for this instant assessment is that live music is devoid of “silver particles” if you will, or perhaps better stated, a “grain” that is present in all reproduced music. There is simply something about the texture of the live sound, devoid of spatial queues, and information contained in amplitude, bandwidth and, distortion of the sound that tells our brains when we are hearing live vs reproduced sound. It has nothing to do with mono vs stereo, or the quality of the equipment being used for reproduction. Rather, it is something about the density of sound without “grain” that is essential in the texture of live sound that allows us not to confuse it with recorded sound. In a way, the issue of “live” in acoustics is sort of a sonic “density” issue whereas in vision it’s an light “density” issue. I am always drawn back to those old carpet ads I used to see on TV where the narrator pushes is fingers in the plush substance and asks “have you ever seen so much carpet in a carpet”? Ah, density. It's all about density.

Well, you now know all you need to know about they key characteristic of the VTL 7.5II that impressed me the most. It is very simply, an electronic device that allows a higher “density” of sound to emerge on the other side of it, than I've heard in any other preamplifier I have ever used. It is, in essence, an acoustic answer to the question “have you ever seen much carpet in a carpet”? The answer, returning to the acoustic metaphor is, I don’t know, but I’ve never heard more sonic density reproduced by any other preamplifier. Everyone has read or experienced stories where reviewers have said that they turned their head suddenly at the speaker when certain sounds are reproduced because they appeared eerily real, right? Well, folks, get used to that with the 7.5 II. Some piano recordings (try Murray Perahia’s recordings on Sony), or burnished brass instruments (any number of Nelson Riddle’s Sinatra charts; Basie Big band material on Pablo; Marty Paich charts of Mel Torme or Sammy Davis Jr) or vocals (too many to name) occasionally give that same eerie effect that results in a turned head looking for the real thing.

The concept of sonic density is not one that I have read about previously in review articles. I was actually introduced to it by the esteemed Mike Grellman, when he described the sound differences among two heavy weight SOA tube amplifiers. He described one as having a more “expansive” sound stage, whereas the other one had more “density”; or "more carpet in a carpet", if you will! He preferred the sound of the latter because it seemed more real to him. The concept then stuck with me but I’ve never had occasion to use it as a descriptor to apply to any audio gear- until now. The VTL 7.5II lets one hear a higher sonic density than the other preamplifier I was using, which was the ARC Ref 5.

Okay. Time for another digression. Has anybody else noticed that it’s been a year since the Ref 5 came out, and we have yet to see any major reviews? What’s up with that? Could it be the king has no clothes? Sure, Valin raved about it at the outset but then again, he raves about most everything. Yet, where is the formal review? My own take is that it is indeed an excellent preamplifier. Its main strength over the Ref 3, which it replaced, is that it was about 3 dB quieter. But, and I say this very hesitatingly because I did not do the proper control experiments, my sense was that the Ref 3 had slightly better deep bass (under 40 Hz) than the Ref 5. Call me crazy, but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. But why hasn’t it wowed other usual suspect reviewers in a formal review? Hmmm…..

Anyway, back to the 7.5II. Aside from its main fantastic attribute of passing along information with high sonic density, what else has it got going for it? Well, frankly a lot. The bass is unquestionably better than the Ref 5. I should point out that I am driving a crossover 25 ft away. Could it be that it’s solid state output can drive longer cable lengths than the Ref 5 with less degradation? Don’t know and don’t care. The bass is superb and better than the Ref 5 in every way. Next up, dynamics. Yup, that too, Better macro dynamics and better microdynamics. Here’s something that always bothered me about the Ref 5: it had a sweet spot on the volume control, and that sweet spot is at about 75-90% of max volume. If one turns down the volume on the Ref 5, one loses a good deal of music’s “life”, which I attribute to compromised dynamics. The 7.5II on the other hand, is a far more linear device with superior dynamics whereby the character of the sound does not change over a wide range of gain. The “life” it imparts to the music is uniform at low volume or high volume. Is it due to a better power supply in the 7.5II? Don’t know and don’t care. But it’s real nonetheless. Sonically, those are the attributes that impress me most readily in comparison to the Ref 5; greater sonic density, outstanding and better bass performance, and much improved and linear dynamic performance over its gain range. That does not mean that the benefits of increased sonic density don’t extend to the midrange and top end. It does, hence the “startle effect” which results in one occasionally “looking” for instruments in the room.

Some minor observations: I love the fact that there are only 2 tubes to replace. It makes tube rolling easy. The unit comes with French 12AU7s that are good. But for maximum performance, a good matched pair of Telefunkens (my current choice) takes the unit to another level. It is said that Amperex Bugle boys are equally impressive and perhaps have better dynamics than the Telefunkens. I recently obtained a pair but have not had the opportunity to test them. Similarly I purchased what might be the ultimate 12AU7 varietal which is the revered 802S from Telefunken. It too awaits listening. Frankly I’m either just not motivated, or just too lazy to change a damn thing at the moment since the garden variety Tele 12AU7s I’m currently using just knock me out.

A word or two about the logistics and two chassis arrangement is in order. The VTL folks did their homework here and Luke and Bea are to be congratulated for the ergonomics and efficiency of the design. The unit is quiet as hell. The inputs can be configured many different ways (single ended, balanced, and assignable). A bypass mode exists. The unit imparts variable turn on delay for the power amps, which can be connected by a 12V switch (amplifier permitting). The remote is a thing of beauty in it's layout and design. (The ARC Ref 5 remote on the other hand is a nightmare. If I had a dollar for every time I wanted to adjust the volume but ended up adjusting the balance, I’d be have quite a collection of George Washington pictures.). There are a lot of other features of the 7.5 II that I haven’t described because frankly, they aren’t important to me. But if there is a more flexible and user-friendly device out there at this level, I’d like to know about it.

Time to circle back to the review issues mentioned at the beginning of this essay. If we take a hard look, can we say that this unit is so grossly different in performance from the finest preamps of two decades ago that it makes a difference in whether one’s system is “two Dixie cups and a string” versus having the musicians present in your room? This may come as a surprise to some but the answer is obviously “no”. However, the world of high end audio is generally one in which incremental improvement is achieved over time that allows for performance enhancements that are or can be of great value to those who are able to afford them and which were not attainable previously. The VTL 7.5 II is indeed such an instrument. It is, in a word, a masterpiece. But it does not come cheaply. In the world of iPods and an ever-increasing supply of outstanding equipment that is modestly priced and getting cheaper and better every day, one can argue whether paying this amount for a preamplifier is obscene. In fact, it might be. But if the goal of our hobby, which commands the attention and interest of a relatively small number of audiophiles, is to aspire to own and appreciate equipment that is capable of extraordinary performance that is at the leading edge of what can presently be accomplished by a simple gain and switching device called a preamplifier, then you have to take your hat off to the VTL 7.5 Mk II.
 
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MylesBAstor

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Marty:

Thanks for a great review and returning to our normal programming :)

Loved your point about density. For me: Density = tubes. Tubes = density. Totally agree with you on that point and actually its the density or amount of information that being passed along is one of the wonderful things about R2R. For whatever the reason, this density gives the ear more to work with.

BTW, on your comment on better driving your xover. The ss output may be lowering the output impedance of the unit (like the cj GAT does to the ART) and that makes the unit less cable sensitive.

My reservation though with using NOS tubes is finding some that are low noise. Luke and others are really lowering the noise floor with their latest efforts and that includes specially selecting the tubes that are available to them. It's this low noise that in part allows for IMHO, the greater density that you've described--and unfortunately while the NOS may sound better--have a noise tradeoff. And of course there's the million dollar question about how long they're going to stay quiet.

And Luke is designing some really wonderful sounding gear lately!
 

Albertporter

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Great review Marty, you already got one congratulation from me on the VTL 7.5 a week or so ago.

When you need tubes checked I have a tester, of course we would want to do that at my home so I could listen briefly to the VTL 7.5 in my system to confirm it's wonderful performance (smile).
 
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Mobiusman

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Excellent review Marty, and my kudos to your writing style. It is almost poetic. Since I was with you at Sound Experience on the day in question, I would like to add several comments about the experience and the VTL.

First, I want to share a very simple experience that happened many years ago. I was at dealer in Mountain View, CA, doing what you and I do, visit the local high end shop when traveling. First of all, I rarely do that now because there are so few dealers worth visiting now, compared to 15-20 years ago. (David Zucker is clearly a throwback to the old days. When I called him to make our appointment, he rearranged his day out of the store to accommodate us and then spent close to 4 hours with us, and would have stayed longer if we wanted). Any how, back to the point of this paragraph --- At the time of my visit, I was using a Spectral preamp, some high power English (Grant) 6550 monoblocks and modified CLS's. I had never heard VTL's, but had heard of them. The dealer allowed me to listen to some large VTL monoblocks hooked up to some very good, but nothing special, speakers. I was listening to the system in tetrode mode and enjoying myself a lot. The dealer then switched the amps to triode mode and magic struck. Of course the music became more liquid, but I was also reminded that I relish the small differences when they help promote the illusion of reality. If I remember accurately, I was so moved, that I ran out and instantly called you to share my experience.

On that day in Boca at Zucker's, a couple of things happened that you did not mention in your review that might add some extra color, to your already experientially vivid comments. We were sitting his main listening room (go to his web site and view some of images that show the level of attention to detail to the listening environment) waiting to listen to the system you described in your comments. David put on a percussive and string piece that neither of us had heard before, BUT within 2 bars, we turned towards each other and gave that sage nod, acknowledging on a fundamental level that we were in the presence of something special. During my 40+ years in audio, I have had that type of experience only a handful of times (ARC/Magneplanar Tympani, Dayton Wright, Accustat initial auditions). We suspected and now know that the key factor that made that experience special was the VTL 7.5 MkII preamp.

The other experience that was noteworthy at Zucker's, although not a surprise to either of us, was the sonic/reality benefit of encouraging him to switch his Siegfried's from tetrode to triode mode. It instantly flashed me back to that day in Mountain View years ago. Anyone who has not heard this amazing transition should make their way to a VTL powered system and try this out for themselves. The only reasons to use tetrode is power and to tighten a sloppy system.

So back to what I believe is the core thesis of your piece. It is about the experience, not the technology. The technology is the enabler, but inherently vapid in and of itself.

While I find that I learn in a number of ways from this forum, what I find most valuable are the comments that enrich my life experience. Yes the technical comments are valuable and interesting, but they remind me of many late night sessions in my music room searching for the nirvana of the day, only to produce,"what was I thinking" the next day when I go back to re-experience my latest nirvana.

I think that this is why I so enjoy my current humble system (see Marty's BG Z 92 comment). It always puts a smile on my face and I have yet to stay up late playing with it. I wish I had figured out this simple fact years ago because I would have enjoyed many aspects of life more if I had focused on the pleasure aspects more than the technical aspects.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Interesting comments Russ

I remember when Marty got the Sigfried's and was breaking them in in tetrode and he seemed somewhat nonplused. It wasn't until he went to triode mode on the amps that he realized how special the amps are.
 

mep

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Marty-Great review and much of what you said struck home with me. I too believe that yesterdays's great products aren't left on a dung heap now because of the constant march "forward" of new gear. I also believe in the term "density" when referring to superior components. I have previously written several threads about recording LPs over to tape at 15 ips and I described what I called "information density" which is the same thing you are talking about here. And as Myles said, I do believe that tubes have what I call information density.

You have obviously put your money where your mouth is and bought a preamp that you strongly feel is much better than the REF 3 and REF 5 which you also owned. REF 3s are still bringing over $5K on the used market and seem to be highly sought after. The VTL must be something really special.

With regards to NOS tubes that Myles touched on, buying NOS tubes from Ebay is truly a crap shoot with regards to noise. I have a box full of expensive NOS tubes that are worthless to me because of noise. However, I also have some damn good NOS tubes that are dead quiet. If you buy NOS tubes from someone like Kevin Deal or RAM labs, you can buy tubes that have been selected for the lowest noise by someone that actually knows what they are doing.

Again-great review.

Mark
 

RBFC

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Marty,

Great review, and I'm thrilled that you are enjoying the VTL in your system! My brother lives just outside of Dallas and I'd hope to come by to hear your system sometime in the future when I'm visiting him.

Lee
 

marty

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Steve, you crack me up.
Russ, I think that the issue of running the Siegfrieds in tetrode vs triode may be application dependent. When we heard the Siggies with the Scaenas, they were being used from 90Hz on up, very similar to the way I use them with my Pipedreams. In that application, it would be a crime not to use them in triode mode since, as you said, that's when they become magical. For folks who need them for full range speakers, perhaps tetrode is the most beneficial approach. It's probably a trade-off. You will probably lose a bit of magic but gain slam and impact in the bass with tetrode application.
 
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microstrip

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Congratulations on your excellent post. I really enjoyed your review of the VTL 7.5 and I think this is perhaps the most important feature of an high-end forum.
After the owner taste, synergy is the most important aspect of an hifi system and your enthusiasm shows that this preamplifier matches perfectly your system, better than the previous ones you owned.
I am going through the same feelings with a different preamplifier - the Audio Research Anniversary, now with 689 hours, but I do not have your writing skills.

But from your experience we can also learn a lot, not just enjoy your post: can I ask you what interconnect and speaker cables you are using?
 

marty

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MylesBAstor

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Congratulations on your excellent post. I really enjoyed your review of the VTL 7.5 and I think this is perhaps the most important feature of an high-end forum.
After the owner taste, synergy is the most important aspect of an hifi system and your enthusiasm shows that this preamplifier matches perfectly your system, better than the previous ones you owned.
I am going through the same feelings with a different preamplifier - the Audio Research Anniversary, now with 689 hours, but I do not have your writing skills.

But from your experience we can also learn a lot, not just enjoy your post: can I ask you what interconnect and speaker cables you are using?

By the time you burn in the unit, it will be time for a retubing :)
 

StickMan451

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Marty,

Great review. I'm wondering what phono you use (if any) and have you tried the AR Ref Phono 2? I've used a Hovland HP-100 with phono for the last six or seven years but lately I have been on the hunt for a great and I hope final phono. I like the Hovland's internal phono quite a bit but it can be a tad bit noisy, it has no remote for the line stage or phono, and it has no real phono flexibilty (for example, ability to change the cartridge loading). Last year I borrowed the Ref Phono 2 from my local dealer for several days and I was pretty impressed with its sound in all ways; definitely better than the Hovland's phono. However at $12k it is no easy purchase for me (I keep waiting for a used one to appear - none so far) and I actually don't really have a great deal of experience yet with trying different top-flight phono's in my rig at home. In this day and age of ever decreasing hi-end audio brick store fronts it is really difficult to get your hands on quality units to try out at home before you buy.

I did see and read with great interest the review of the Allnic H3000 phono on this forum; per the review it looks very impressive...but, how do you get one to 'try before you buy' at home? I might actually give Hammertone Audio a call soon and see what their thoughts are on the Allnic.

Actually I have arranged to borrow the Ref Phono again this weekend and this time I will also borrow the Ref 5 preamp. Your comments on the Ref 5 are very similar to others that I have heard; that it is actually not quite as good overall as the Ref 3 and that it may not actually outperform the Hovland HP-100 (keeping in mind that personal tastes, likes, and dislikes, do definitely enter the picture when personally auditioning gear). Anyway I will find that out for myself later this weekend.

If you have any thoughts or recommendations on the phono issue, I'd love to hear them.
 

marty

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Stick,
I actually sold my ARC Ref phono 1 to purchase an ASR Basis Exclusive II phone stage a few years ago. As you know, compatibility is almost more important than the sound of a piece of gear assessed only on its own merits (if such a thing is possible at all). In my case, I was using the ARC Ref phono with a ARC Ref 3 preamp and I just thought it was bit too much of the ARC house sound (which I like, but all things in excess can be less than ideal). The ASR is one of those pieces of gear that at one time got phenomenal reviews, but then disappeared from the "hot" gear list faster than you can whistle Dixie. It remains for me, one of the absolute very best and most satisfactory pieces of gear I've ever owned and I have zero desire to explore other phono stages at this time. I just love this thing. Normally I'm a tube-o-phile, but the ASR has no characteristic signature sound that belies either tube or SS and simply sounds gorgeous on everything. Since there are tubes in my preamp and power amp (Siegfrieds), the compatibility of those pieces with the ASR works well for me. I think the secret is the battery power supply which may account for its low noise and "purity" (I wish I could find a word that is more easily understood in the audio lexicon) with low level signals such as phono. Now that nobody pays it any attention, used ones are available for a very reasonable price (3K?) if and when they surface. The issue is to make sure that any used unit uses the newest chip, a THAT 1510. http://www.thatcorp.com/1510-1512_Audio_Preamplifier_ICs.shtml These are readily available for about 2 bucks if you know where to buy chips at the right price, or you could pay $300 for them from the US ASR distributor. It is also said that the newer units are supposedly better because of a change in circuit board composition, but I have no desire to upgrade my unit as the current sound pleases me enough to get off the merry-go-round. Besides, I have other "weak links" that are more pressing should I wish to change anything in the system at this time. I sympathize with you. The Hovland, ARC and Allnic are all wonderful pieces. At the minimum, it's a heck of project to assess all three to see which one brings the magic into your system. Good luck!
Marty
 
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Gregadd

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I did see and read with great interest the review of the Allnic H3000 phono on this forum; per the review it looks very impressive...but, how do you get one to 'try before you buy' at home? I might actually give Hammertone Audio a call soon and see what their thoughts are on the Allnic.

Albert Porter on this site is a dealer and can probably answer your questions about a loaner. I purchased my Allnic used. Dave was very responsive about my questions. He had one of his dealers email me.
 

rblnr

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Great thread Marty. As an owner of AR Ref 5/AR Ref 210s/Scaenas -- I would say that Scaenas = live-like density, and I understand you know the Pipedreams. Got my 210s from David Zucker btw. BTW II, owned and loved a VTL 5.5 preamp for a long time.

More later as thoughts too ahh dense for the phone keyboard I'm on
 

microstrip

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I'd also like to know if you have any experience with two formidable loudspeakers that we cannot audition on this side of the "pond"; specifically, the Gyphon Poseidon http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/default2.asp or the Raidho X-5 http://www.raidho.dk/main.php?page=product&product=x5
Marty
I do not have experience with these danish speakers . The only danish speakers I am familiar with are the Dynaudio's - sometimes I forget I still have a pair of old Consequences ranged in my garage (!) - and the Primare BIG49 , designed by Bo Christensen in the 90's. These last speakers used the Thiel/Accuton ceramic units and also sounded excellent.
Although Dali are distributed in my country I never heard the Megaline's owned by Albert Porter.

ARC spoiled the pleasure of reviewers of the Anniversary preamplifier in their site: "In every sonically significant category – bandwidth, harmonic purity, ease of delivery, musical dynamics (both large and small), bass depth, impact and control, soundstage size and image specificity, delineation of the recording venue – music is rendered with a realness and vividness that is simply uncanny". It is true. What else can we say ?

I use it with a CD8, VTL MB750 and SoundLab A1 PX. For LPs I use a Forsell and *** ARC phono ref 2.
 

tubeman victor

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Aug 17, 2010
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micro,
Don't be shy. Any system that is anchored by the ARC Anniversary preamp is a serious system! We'd love to know what you are using. I'd also like to know if you have any experience with two formidable loudspeakers that we cannot audition on this side of the "pond"; specifically, the Gyphon Poseidon http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/default2.asp or the Raidho X-5 http://www.raidho.dk/main.php?page=product&product=x5
Marty

Hi Marty,

I have auditioned Gyphon Poseidon in 2007 at my local dealer with ref600mKIII and MBL cd transport/Dac with ref 3 preamp in a room smaller than recommended with 20 other speakers lining the walls MBL,wilson X2 etc but they were still impressive and toe tapping.Shame my rooms too small for them,someone in sydney got lucky.:D
Cheers Victor.
 

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