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Thread: Your aural memory...did I really hear that?

  1. #21
    Addicted to Best! Soundproof's Avatar
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    I'm a tad annoyed, because I actually heard the variation on the one I missed in this test, but it was so small that I said the two versions were similar - and they weren't.

    Which tells you a little bit about the acuity of musical perception required to do well on this musical memory test. Since you won't have longer to wait between exposures than just a few seconds, you'll get a good indication as to how well you can discern, remember and compare musical passages.
    One disadvantage here is that these are generated tones, but then that's what most people listen to, anyway.

    It's a test worth taking. If one scores very well, then it says something about one's ability to retain and compare, as posited by the TS.

    You want to do the test at the bottom:
    http://jakemandell.com/tonedeaf/

    Here's my score. What's yours?

    Name:  Skjermbilde 2013-06-09 kl. 21.26.06.jpg
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    Last edited by Soundproof; 06-09-2013 at 12:42 PM.
    Searching wide and far around the globe for my own most preferred distortion.

  2. #22
    Member Sponsor [Technical Expert] DonH50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesBAstor View Post
    But what do you want from a bunch of engineers who continue to stomp upon any biological principles?
    You must really hate engineers, Myles, to slam them at every opportunity. Bummer they are needed to design and build this stuff, pesky little buggers. Shoot, there's even a field of study called bioengineering, my son is interested in it.
    Don Herman
    "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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  3. #23
    I feel fortunate if I can remember lunch. I think when people "remember" the sound of system, they're just remembering their impression of listening to that system, that day. Fair enough. Could easily be completely buggered by any number of physical or psychological factors and change completely another day, but fair enough. When people think they can hear a substantive difference between the preamp they're listening to now, and even one they listened to an hour ago in the same system, I just take that with a huge grain of salt. Are you set up to do rapid switching? Cool. No? Then you haven't got a chance unless you're comparing things that sound radically different.

    Tim
    In high-end audio, you can't even fight an opinion with the facts.

  4. #24
    Member Sponsor [WBF Founding Member]
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    Yeah, my aural memory is so bad that every time my mom calls me on the phone I say "Who is this?"

  5. #25
    Member Addicted to Best! NorthStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundproof View Post
    I'm a tad annoyed, because I actually heard the variation on the one I missed in this test, but it was so small that I said the two versions were similar - and they weren't.

    Which tells you a little bit about the acuity of musical perception required to do well on this musical memory test. Since you won't have longer to wait between exposures than just a few seconds, you'll get a good indication as to how well you can discern, remember and compare musical passages.
    One disadvantage here is that these are generated tones, but then that's what most people listen to, anyway.

    It's a test worth taking. If one scores very well, then it says something about one's ability to retain and compare, as posited by the TS.

    You want to do the test at the bottom:
    http://jakemandell.com/tonedeaf/

    Here's my score. What's yours?

    Name:  Skjermbilde 2013-06-09 kl. 21.26.06.jpg
Views: 152
Size:  103.6 KB
    Are you a professional audio reviewer? ...You sure have one of the several aptitudes required.

    - BTW I cannot do the test as I am fighting a cold right now; but soon that I'm back in shape I will.
    Thx for the link!
    All the Very Best, - Bob --------- "And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison --------- AudiophileAudition

  6. #26
    Member Addicted to Best! NorthStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KlausR. View Post
    Aural memory has been investigated in the past, and it looks as if itís rather bad. I attach a file (in Word 2003) which contains an excerpt of a JASA paper. Attachment 10165

    Klaus
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
    Nice find Klaus, that's a keeper. However, I think the "memory" here is timbre rather than absolute pitch. According to James Johnson of DTS, timbre memory is less than half a second. So it's even worse than for pitch.

    --Ethan
    Yes indeed Ethan; it is now in my computer's memory. ...Thx Klaus!

    * Nice to see you pop up like that Ethan.
    All the Very Best, - Bob --------- "And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison --------- AudiophileAudition

  7. #27
    Addicted to Best! Soundproof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk View Post
    I feel fortunate if I can remember lunch. I think when people "remember" the sound of system, they're just remembering their impression of listening to that system, that day. Fair enough. Could easily be completely buggered by any number of physical or psychological factors and change completely another day, but fair enough. When people think they can hear a substantive difference between the preamp they're listening to now, and even one they listened to an hour ago in the same system, I just take that with a huge grain of salt. Are you set up to do rapid switching? Cool. No? Then you haven't got a chance unless you're comparing things that sound radically different.

    Tim
    This.

    I have a freak ability when it comes to the exact pitch, pace, rhythm and phrasing of music - but as I've mentioned in another thread, I can't remember a line of lyrics. But since I have this freak ability, I can rely upon it to identify specific recordings, variations between performances and nuances in reproduction.
    I only need a short time to be able to discern whether a PU/phono stage combination seems realistic; or whether a loudspeaker/room configuration works (for me).
    This has also made me skeptical about many claims made in HiFi, because I haven't been able to discern the claimed differences in some instances, while they are ridiculously obvious in other, yet ignored.

    I have arrived at the conclusion that we interject our preferences between the stimulus and our appreciation of it, to an immense degree. And that we really shouldn't put too much emphasis on the subjective evaluations of others - they may work for them, they are unlikely to work for you. That throws a spanner in the works for the audiophile industry, of course, but it doesn't take away one iota of enjoyment from the informed listener, who chooses to listen with his self, and not through the projections of others.
    Searching wide and far around the globe for my own most preferred distortion.

  8. #28
    Member Addicted to Best! NorthStar's Avatar
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    I think this is an art (aural memory), and like any other art it can be developed, nurtured, and mastered.
    And of course some people are more talented than others in that specific domain.
    All the Very Best, - Bob --------- "And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison --------- AudiophileAudition

  9. #29
    [WBF Founding Member] Addicted to Best! JackD201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    yeah, my aural memory is so bad that every time my mom calls me on the phone i say "who is this?"
    rofl!
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MylesBAstor
    Any testing procedures would automatically make any conclusions null and void. Just read up a little bit on short vs. long term memory and perceptual abilities, specifically the inverse U function relationship. Oh yes the key is how to convert short to long term memory. Same goes with sports. And of course, that doesn't even take into consideration that it's absolutely possible to enhance skill/memory acquisition; conversely, it's also extremely easy to degrade the aforementioned perceptual abilities. But what do you want from a bunch of engineers who continue to stomp upon any biological principles?

    If you think that aural memory is as excellent as the audiophile and reviewing community claims it to be, provide evidence to that effect. And what makes you think that the author of that paper is engineer, did you read his curriculum vitae?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan Winer
    Nice find Klaus, that's a keeper. However, I think the "memory" here is timbre rather than absolute pitch. According to James Johnson of DTS, timbre memory is less than half a second. So it's even worse than for pitch.
    Certainly pitch memory is not the whole story but I think that if a simple task such as memorizing pitch is as difficult as this research shows it to be, then I wonder what memory would look like when it comes to memorizing more complex signals. How is memory for intensity, loudness, temporal aspects?

    Have reviewers or audiophiles ever put their claimed skills to the test, under controlled conditions that is? Whenever I proposed double blind tests to audio forum members, both the genuine audiophiles and reviewers politely declined!

    Klaus

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