Wadia Series 9 anyone??

egidius · Jun 7, 2013

Would anyone in their sound mind still go for a Wadia Series 9 playback system?? I am kind of thinking about that, and need a reality check!

For the record: I use a S7i at home, a Bow ZZ8 mk3 in my studio, and a MH ULN2 on the road when doing electronics.

Interested in current or potential owners opinion! thanks..

egidius · Jun 8, 2013

comparisons?

egidius said:
Would anyone in their sound mind still go for a Wadia Series 9 playback system?? I am kind of thinking about that, and need a reality check!

For the record: I use a S7i at home, a Bow ZZ8 mk3 in my studio, and a MH ULN2 on the road when doing electronics.

Interested in current or potential owners opinion! thanks..

It seems not, to conclude from the silence ;-)
But in retrospect: Why did you go for Scarlatti, Zanden and not Wadia S9? I presume the Vivaldi 4box system is somehow an answer to the Wadia 4box system?! Does it trump it all?

In my current bracket: The Wadia 781i handily beat the Puccini and an Esoteric X-03although my listening was probably overshadowed of bad dCS P8 memories, so the move to a GNSC S7i seemed obvious.

But on top - would the Wadia S9 still play there?

LL21 · Jun 8, 2013

I have heard remarkably good things about the 9. my primary concern would be service. With wadia's recent takeover and the decision to exit CD players completely...this gives me concern about ongoing support. An old tube amp...there are talented audio tech guys who can repair almost anything. But a digital 4-box player?...not so easy I think.

As for quality, I have been told by someone who owns it and other sota digital it truly holds its own against Mbl, dcs, Zanden etc. this is the GNSC mod'd version

Chr. R. · Jun 8, 2013

A difficult question, because I believe there are several points for and against.

Buy because:
1) You want the best Wadia sound, and it is not possible it can get better

2) A former top model and discontinued product, should experience a large price drop now. So for a buyer, it should now be possible to make a good deal.

Don't buy because:
1) The lack of a "real" 9-series transport (Esoteric with SACD).
2) The 9 - series can't be converted from 110 volt to 240 volt.
3) Small supply of used 9-series products here in Europe, so it may be difficult to find a set with 922 (not the older 921).
4) For how long will/can Wadia supply spare parts? Is it 3-5-10 years??
5) With a discontinued product, you will not achieve the hardware benefits from the ongoing development with DAC.

Honestly, I would really like to say "BUY", but after the recent developments at Wadia, I will not even consider an upgrade

Regards
Christian - another S7i owner

egidius · Jun 8, 2013

@Christian: Thanks, that just about sums it up for me too

egidius · Jun 8, 2013

lloydelee21 said:
As for quality, I have been told by someone who owns it and other sota digital it truly holds its own against Mbl, dcs, Zanden etc. this is the GNSC mod'd version

Of course that's why I was asking

LL21 · Jun 8, 2013

egidius said:
Of course that's why I was asking

yes, its a shame about their dropping the whole line of players. oh well.

Uk Paul · Jun 8, 2013

It's all about risk at the end of the day, if it were a given that it would give reliable service for perhaps ten years then maybe worth the current asking price for what is sadly a legacy product now. They are all available at low prices now, but having used the nine series twice at shows, I would not step up to the table myself as tempting as it may be..

egidius · Jun 8, 2013

?

Uk Paul said:
It's all about risk at the end of the day, if it were a given that it would give reliable service for perhaps ten years then maybe worth the current asking price for what is sadly a legacy product now. They are all available at low prices now, but having used the nine series twice at shows, I would not step up to the table myself as tempting as it may be..

And would that be because of the sound, or what the actual setup entails in complications. I realise, that having one box, albeit a big one, might have its advantages..

Uk Paul · Jun 8, 2013

egidius said:
And would that be because of the sound, or what the actual setup entails in complications. I realise, that having one box, albeit a big one, might have its advantages..

Both! It is a complex way of doing digital, which involves much cost, but for me personally, 1 or 2 box system gives a more natural sound, requiring much less space and cabling..

AMP · Jun 8, 2013

I had an S7i in my system since early 2011 and thoroughly enjoyed it. On a whim I borrowed an S9 last fall and based on my experience decided that I had to have it... even sold my S7 to fund the purchase.

The S9 is an enhancement of the performance of the S7. The biggest differences that I noticed were that the S9 delivered information from a blacker background with a much more convincing decay. On top of that, no matter what was playing, it seemed completely effortless (much akin to the feeling of endless power reserves that only a BIG SS amp can deliver). I could listen for hours on end and never encounter any of the digital artifacts that usually would make me switch over to LPs. I really loved what the S9 did.

I never got a chance to listen to a GNSC-modified S7 (although I used to have a GNSC 861) but my understanding is that Steve's mods brought a lot of the S9 performance to the S7. I can only imagine what the GNSC mods for the S9 could achieve!

In the long run, though, I simply couldn't justify the cost of the S9 for the incremental improvement over the S7. The differences were real and easily heard, but they weren't so great that they made the S7 seem deficient. On top of that the space required for the S9 (along with the power requirements -- cables and conditioning) were more than I was willing to put up with. So...after some hard thought I gave the S9 back and decided to go looking for a different solution.

What I've discovered is that with the advent of some new designs much of the performance of the edge-of-the-art designs of 5 years ago is available at a much more attractive price point. For instance, the Rowland Aeris delivered much of the same qualities of the S9 at a fraction of the price.

I'm not sure what I'm going to end up with, but the search is proving to be entertaining

still-one · Jun 8, 2013

I had the Series 9 in my system when I was still using the MBL 111Fs. I still think it was the best digital I have heard. During the transition to Fine Sounds little seemed to be happening and I couldn't get them to commit that they were going to offer the upgrade to handle 192 so I let it go.

LL21 · Jun 9, 2013

AMP said:
The S9 is an enhancement of the performance of the S7. The biggest differences that I noticed were that the S9 delivered information from a blacker background with a much more convincing decay. On top of that, no matter what was playing, it seemed completely effortless (much akin to the feeling of endless power reserves that only a BIG SS amp can deliver). I could listen for hours on end and never encounter any of the digital artifacts that usually would make me switch over to LPs. I really loved what the S9 did....What I've discovered is that with the advent of some new designs much of the performance of the edge-of-the-art designs of 5 years ago is available at a much more attractive price point. For instance, the Rowland Aeris delivered much of the same qualities of the S9 at a fraction of the price.

I'm not sure what I'm going to end up with, but the search is proving to be entertaining

I have heard great things about Aeris, and am told by one reviewer off the record (whom I regard highly) he considers it his favorite hi-res DAC period.

audio.bill · Jun 9, 2013

lloydelee21 said:
I have heard great things about Aeris, and am told by one reviewer off the record (whom I regard highly) he considers it his favorite hi-res DAC period.

The Aeris however does have a couple of limitations regarding its use with hi-res material; the USB input is limited to 96K and it does not currently support DSD.

Hyperion · Jun 9, 2013

audio.bill said:
The Aeris however does have a couple of limitations regarding its use with hi-res material; the USB input is limited to 96K and it does not currently support DSD.

There are valid constructional reasons for all of this...

audio.bill · Jun 9, 2013

Hyperion said:
There are valid constructional reasons for all of this...

Design decisions are involved in every aspect of the product development process, and I was merely pointing out a couple of tradeoffs that have been made in the Aeris. I didn't mean to infer that its performance level is lessened by these choices, but they may have an impact on some potential buyers' purchase decisions.

Roysen · Jun 10, 2013

Well, I have owned a GNSC modified Wadia Series 9 for years now. It is up to latest Wadia specs and beyond and also beyond latest GNSC statement specs.

It does not have a USB input, but actually I would never consider anything coming out of a USB output on a computer as high-end. It beats me why anyone would want a USB input on a high end DAC. The day I venture into file based playback it will be through an integrated solution of server/streamer and DAC which has a better interface solution than USB and with a master/slave solution between server/streamer and DAC. The Audeeva Conbrio used by Magico when they show their top of the line speakers seems to me like the ideal solution. However to judge the Wadia combination because it lacks an USB input seems really strange to me.

It does not play SACD nor high resolution PCM above 24/96 from silver discs, but I think it also might be an advantage. Most universal players convert DSD to PCM before converting digital to analog. Why would anyone want that? At least I would not want that. It seems less of a compromise to make a dedicated CD player and use all resources to make that sound as good as possible on CD. Then if someone wants to play SACDs at the highest level they should buy a dedicated SACD player which does not compromise the DSD bitstream and where all resources have been allocated to make SACD sound as good as possible.

In terms of pure CD playback there are very few if any digital components out on the market even today that can compete with the GNSC modified Wadia Series 9. It simply is that great. I have yet to hear the dCS Vivaldi. I expect it to be exceptional. However dCS has a very different sonic signature on their products compared to the Wadia. So if you favour the Wadia sound the dCS Vivaldi might not be for you. I have the top MBL combination, the top Zanden combination, the top Soulution player and the top Goldmund player at home. I have listened quite a bit to the top Esoteric combination, the top Burmester player and the top APL combination. What might come close is the GNSC Wadia Series 9 DAC with a GNSC modified Wadia 270SE transport. The transport mechanism in itself was better in the 270SE in my opinion but the latest Wadia technology in the GNSC Wadia Series 9 Transport in terms of power supply, power line filter, shielding and damping makes it a bit like apples and pears to compare them. The Series 9 is more transparent, dynamic and open while some might find the 270SE a bit more full bodied. The upgrade of the GNSC Series 9 DAC from 921 to 922 and then from 922 to 922SC was really worth while. So was the new magnet based power line filter originally introduced in the 971 now also built into the 931 and 922SC. These changed really opened up the sonic signature from this combination.

BTW, Christian R. commented that the Wadia Series 9 can not be converted between 120V and 230V. That is not correct.

egidius · Jun 10, 2013

thanks

Roysen said:
Well, I have owned a GNSC modified Wadia Series 9 for years now. It is up to latest Wadia specs and beyond and also beyond latest GNSC statement specs.

It does not have a USB input, but actually I would never consider anything coming out of a USB output on a computer as high-end. It beats me why anyone would want a USB input on a high end DAC. The day I venture into file based playback it will be through an integrated solution of server/streamer and DAC which has a better interface solution than USB and with a master/slave solution between server/streamer and DAC. The Audeeva Conbrio used by Magico when they show their top of the line speakers seems to me like the ideal solution. However to judge the Wadia combination because it lacks an USB input seems really strange to me.

It does not play SACD nor high resolution PCM above 24/96 from silver discs, but I think it also might be an advantage. Most universal players convert DSD to PCM before converting digital to analog. Why would anyone want that? At least I would not want that. It seems less of a compromise to make a dedicated CD player and use all resources to make that sound as good as possible on CD. Then if someone wants to play SACDs at the highest level they should buy a dedicated SACD player which does not compromise the DSD bitstream and where all resources have been allocated to make SACD sound as good as possible.

In terms of pure CD playback there are very few if any digital components out on the market even today that can compete with the GNSC modified Wadia Series 9. It simply is that great. I have yet to hear the dCS Vivaldi. I expect it to be exceptional. However dCS has a very different sonic signature on their products compared to the Wadia. So if you favour the Wadia sound the dCS Vivaldi might not be for you. I have the top MBL combination, the top Zanden combination, the top Soulution player and the top Goldmund player at home. I have listened quite a bit to the top Esoteric combination, the top Burmester player and the top APL combination. What might come close is the GNSC Wadia Series 9 DAC with a GNSC modified Wadia 270SE transport. The transport mechanism in itself was better in the 270SE in my opinion but the latest Wadia technology in the GNSC Wadia Series 9 Transport in terms of power supply, power line filter, shielding and damping makes it a bit like apples and pears to compare them. The Series 9 is more transparent, dynamic and open while some might find the 270SE a bit more full bodied. The upgrade of the GNSC Series 9 DAC from 921 to 922 and then from 922 to 922SC was really worth while. So was the new magnet based power line filter originally introduced in the 971 now also built into the 931 and 922SC. These changed really opened up the sonic signature from this combination.

BTW, Christian R. commented that the Wadia Series 9 can not be converted between 120V and 230V. That is not correct.

I am really glad that so many S9 owners have joined in, as this is the point: you hear a lot about Vivaldi (naturally, dCS needs to sell some, and where better than on whatsbest ;-) ) but virtually nothing of the S9 anymore - However; UKPaul made an interesting notion about the complication of boxes..that relates of course to Paganini upwards as well as S9 - is a Zanden two box solution comparable? small and elegant!

Roysen · Jun 10, 2013

The Zanden combination sounds very different. It is not everyones cup of tea. I would not say it is the latest word in cutting edge resolution and transparency. It does however excel at a couple of attributes that some of the highest resolving and most transparent alternatives are lacking and that is in its rythmic flow and musicality. Its focus is on presenting the musical message of the music rather than dissecting the recording. The midrange is also very special and probably a result of the tubed output stage and the tubed power supply of the DAC. The greatest strength is however its rythmic timing.

Thanks,
Roy

LL21 · Jun 10, 2013

Roysen said:
The Zanden combination sounds very different. It is not everyones cup of tea. I would not say it is the latest word in cutting edge resolution and transparency. It does however excel at a couple of attributes that some of the highest resolving and most transparent alternatives are lacking and that is in its rythmic flow and musicality. Its focus is on presenting the musical message of the music rather than dissecting the recording. The midrange is also very special and probably a result of the tubed output stage and the tubed power supply of the DAC. The greatest strength is however its rythmic timing.

Thanks,
Roy

Roy,

Let me say first, it is wonderful to see you contributing so strongly again. As the saying goes, Long may she reign. Stay well.

As for Zanden, I am probably the single most vocal Zanden-digital-phile on this entire forum, and admit it. And I entirely agree with Roysen that the Zanden is not (and has not been for some time) the last word in cutting edge resolution. Stahl-Tek Vekian and DCS Scarlatti are both superior and notably so. I learned a lot about what was on my recordings in minute details with these. If you are in it for exceptional detail, Zanden is great but not the best.

However, I have never come across digital that I find so addictive to listen to for other reasons that are more subtle. The musical detail that IS presented is exceptionally balanced, completely effortless and very nuanced within its scale. As a a result, you get flow...because there is not etching, no imbalance (at least to me) of the scale of notes (ie, too midforward, too bass heavy, etc). Couple this with a tonally pure sound (to me), and I think this is the particular magic that is Zanden.

More so this kind of magic (which matters to me) than any other digital I have personally auditioned...and there was a good solid 2 years when I was actively looking for a 'new digital system' to replace the Zanden and did not find it (for me). ARC, Metronome, STahl-Tek, DCS, Esoteric, Emm, Krell, Wadia (not 9), Meridian...all exceptionally good and probably could have been extremely happy with more than a few of them...just not a desire to trade the Zanden for it.

For those interested in exploring Zanden but do like their detail, I have ended up enjoying 'playing' with my Zanden in terms of NOS Tubes and individually isolating each component in a 'sandwich'...HRS underneath and HRS/Artesania/Stillpoints on top which has continued to take the digital further...better detail, lower noise floor, and superior solidity of images. In comparison terms it handily beat an Audio Aero in detail and bass power which is not the last word in detail or bass for sure, but at least for me, it also was not close. However, I do not think I have gotten it to Scarlatti or Stahl-Tek levels of information retrieval, nor do I sense this is possible without re-working by Yamada San himself (creator/founder).

OK...enough about Zanden...this is a Wadia 9 thread...sorry!

Wadia Series 9 anyone??

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