Michael Fremer podcast: Wow!!!!

Andre Marc · Jun 6, 2013

Oh boy, this podcast quite exceptional...

Opinions on the hobby, T.H.E. Show Newport, demographics, and more...this
is already causing a stir.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content...-scott-wikinsons-home-theater-geeks-podcast-0

Andre Marc · Jun 6, 2013

Interestingly, there are a few things I agree with him about and a few things I totally disagree with him about

Agree:
-American culture is wanting is reference to the arts
-Attendance seems to be down from last year

Disagree:
-No CDs being played in demos. Huh? I saw a LOT of CDs being spun.
-The MBL room sucked. Wha?
-The hobby is on the upswing. I don't believe this is the case. Apple, iTunes, and the
quality of recorded music today is making sure that it does not grow.

Lo and behold, he gives a shout out to the Kef LS50's.

He also mentions an Audioquest Ethernet cable demo that IMO is typical cable company snake oil.

dallasjustice · Jun 6, 2013

Shame on Fremer

"America is exceptionally backward and stupid, in many ways" 11:45

I don't accept this premise. I find that America is the most musically innovative country in modern world history. I find that America is the most culturally/musically diverse country in the history of the world. To gauge a People's culture on how many lurkers show up at a hi-fi convention is exceptionally audiophile ethnocentric. Which TV programs do Americans like to watch? American Idol? The Voice? Fremer's comments exemplify the very reason the high-end business can't seem to reach out to younger folks. I love classical music too. But if you want to sell a product, you MUST go TO your customers, not disparage their musical/cultural preferences. Michael Fremer is an audiophile fascist.

RBFC · Jun 6, 2013

dallasjustice said:
"America is exceptionally backward and stupid, in many ways" 11:45

I don't accept this premise. I find that America is the most musically innovative country in modern world history. I find that America is the most culturally/musically diverse country in the history of the world. To gauge a People's culture on how many lurkers show up at a hi-fi convention is exceptionally audiophile ethnocentric. Which TV programs do Americans like to watch? American Idol? The Voice? Fremer's comments exemplify the very reason the high-end business can't seem to reach out to younger folks. I love classical music too. But if you want to sell a product, you MUST go TO your customers, not disparage their musical/cultural preferences. Michael Fremer is an audiophile fascist.

Yes. Simply reading our forum here demonstrates the desire to impose our personal preferences on others.....

Lee

Andre Marc · Jun 6, 2013

dallasjustice said:
"America is exceptionally backward and stupid, in many ways" 11:45

I don't accept this premise. I find that America is the most musically innovative country in modern world history. I find that America is the most culturally/musically diverse country in the history of the world. To gauge a People's culture on how many lurkers show up at a hi-fi convention is exceptionally audiophile ethnocentric. Which TV programs do Americans like to watch? American Idol? The Voice? Fremer's comments exemplify the very reason the high-end business can't seem to reach out to younger folks. I love classical music too. But if you want to sell a product, you MUST go TO your customers, not disparage their musical/cultural preferences. Michael Fremer is an audiophile fascist.

Yes, there is a hint of snobbery here...no doubt about it. And this is precisely why the hobby is in deep trouble in IMO.

There is a hint of truth in the fact that we do not have the classical arts as embedded in our culture, but that is to be expected
considering Europe is the birthplace of most composers.

Europe has so many dark underbellies as well, and those who glorify its culture tend to ignore that.

asiufy · Jun 6, 2013

Well, wasn't there an article in TAS (the website) praising Munich, and comparing it to the US-based shows? And that article pointed this exact same issue, the cultural differences that allow Munich to have an event like that...

So Fremer isn't the only one that felt that way. Never been to the Munich show, but not being either from the US nor Europe, I can attest to these cultural differences. If even neighbouring countries can have such abysmal differences, why would it be different with such disparate continents?

The US has indeed a very rich musical (and cultural) history. I'm guessing Michael is just not too happy about its current state, probably having lived through a very fertile period (60s, early 70s).

alexandre

dallasjustice · Jun 6, 2013

I agree with you and I view people as individuals. I don't enjoy talking about groups of people because the group rarely defines any individual in a meaningful way. Unfortunately, Michael Fremer doesn't view the world that way and I was simply responding to his views. He did broadly say he was referring to "Americans" and not "USAmericans" as you say. Hell, even Miss Teen USA South Carolina knows how to use more precise language than does Fremer.

egidius said:
ouch, that's one of those comments I start reading with interest just to end with the usual "not again" seigh. Why oh why do you need that?
As to your premise, that America is musically innovative, forget it: people are innovative, not regions, let alone - i take that's what you meant ;-) - the USA. And I know loads of musically innovative USamericans, but they are people quite unconnected to the Nation they live in, and no, they are not unconnected to the society they live in. Different concept.

egidius · Jun 6, 2013

THANK YOU, that made my day...beautiful try of Miss S.C.

egidius · Jun 6, 2013

egidius said:
THANK YOU, that made my day...beautiful try of Miss S.C.

though reading my own post does not sound unlike Ms S.C. - almost german in ints incapsulated language - guess what, that's my mother tongue ;-)

KeithR · Jun 6, 2013

the MBL comments were interesting--his cohort JA was in the room with me and was taken back by the sound. perhaps the room changed from Friday to Sunday, who knows.

i think he misspoke about american exceptionalism and he just muffed the words---certainly our schools are cutting back on the fine arts and that needs to change. i wasn't offended by it.

mauidan · Jun 6, 2013

Andre, thanks for posting the link to the Fremer podcast.

Guess Steve will be happy with his comments on the ML-3s.

Andre Marc · Jun 6, 2013

devert said:
Andre, thanks for posting the link to the Fremer podcast.

Guess Steve will be happy with his comments on the ML-3s.

I am actually surprised Fremer has not reviewed more Lamm stuff. He also uses Wilsons like Steve.

Andre Marc · Jun 6, 2013

KeithR said:
the MBL comments were interesting--his cohort JA was in the room with me and was taken back by the sound. perhaps the room changed from Friday to Sunday, who knows.

i think he misspoke about american exceptionalism and he just muffed the words---certainly our schools are cutting back on the fine arts and that needs to change. i wasn't offended by it.

Yeh, I don't get the comments on the MBL room. Maybe they were playing that devil CD he so detests. I heard both tape and CD and
thought it was exceptional.

Andre Marc · Jun 6, 2013

edorr said:
Of the remaining 48% (the non Obama voting fraction of the popuation I presume) probably about 50% believe in young earth creationism. Of the remaining 24%, about another half believes Obama is a Muslim, not born in the USA. Of the remaining 12% about half watches American Idol and does not listen to late Beethoven (preferable on vinyl). So only about 6% of the population makes the Fremer cut of bona fide intellectuals. Are you in or out? I'm out because I watch American Idol....Oh well.

Well I guess I am a West Coast Elitist Liberal because I don't watch American Idol, I don't have Facebook, and I like classical music...LOL..

NorthStar · Jun 6, 2013

Great thread! ...Michael Fremer is an expert at creating lively discussions; he's one of a kind, himself and all that jazz opinion that comes with him. :b

mep · Jun 6, 2013

Andre Marc said:
DJ...YOU quoted his comment...not me! It is impossible to reply to that comment without getting political. Gimme a break.

BTW, I may be the only one on the planet WITHOUT a Facebook page!

Nope. You and I may be the only people on the planet without a Facebook page.

cjfrbw · Jun 6, 2013

mep said:
Nope. You and I may be the only people on the planet without a Facebook page.

Make that three.

Phelonious Ponk · Jun 6, 2013

Andre Marc said:
Yes, there is a hint of snobbery here...no doubt about it. And this is precisely why the hobby is in deep trouble in IMO.

There is a hint of truth in the fact that we do not have the classical arts as embedded in our culture, but that is to be expected
considering Europe is the birthplace of most composers.

Europe has so many dark underbellies as well, and those who glorify its culture tend to ignore that.

Well, Europe is the birthplace of most of the dead composers, anyway. Fremmer's snobish argument only holds up if you believe music peaked 200 years ago. I don't. I like classical fine, but it is mostly history in the hands of interpreters, as much history lesson as living art, and I find as much value and, ahem, musicality, in great songwriters and improvisationalists as I do in composers with a capital C. YM, of course, MV, but that doesn't make you culturally superior, just different.

Of course it's no big surprise to find that Fremer is a cultural snob.Lord knows he's an audio snob. He's also a bit of a whack-job, I don't even need video to smell the kool-aid on his breath. It blows forth from the printed page. Audioquest ethernet cable indeed....

Tim

Steve Williams · Jun 6, 2013

I'm going to ask that politics (as always) be kept out of this

Steve Williams · Jun 6, 2013

Thread laundered with all political posts deleted

Michael Fremer podcast: Wow!!!!

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