MMMicroOne vs. KEF LS50

mep · Jun 2, 2013

I would be interested in hearing about the comparison between the subject speakers. There is a ton of technology and engineering that went into the tiny KEF LS50 speaker from a company with a long history of R&D in speaker technology. It has received some rave reviews. JA said it is a Class "A" speaker with limited LF extension. That's still quite an achievement for $1500 pair of speakers. Lot's of people have also raved about the sound of the MMMicroOne speakers. They were perceived as quite a bargain at $2500, but I believe I have heard the price is now $4K. Still, just because both are stand-mounted small speakers with pretensions to greatness, it would be interesting to hear from people who have had the opportunity to hear both speakers.

I do think KEF should have had a dedicated stand for the LS50 and not made people go on a search of their own. The MMMicroOne speakers do come with a pair of stands.

Andre Marc · Jun 2, 2013

mep said:
I would be interested in hearing about the comparison between the subject speakers. There is a ton of technology and engineering that went into the tiny KEF LS50 speaker from a company with a long history of R&D in speaker technology. It has received some rave reviews. JA said it is a Class "A" speaker with limited LF extension. That's still quite an achievement for $1500 pair of speakers. Lot's of people have also raved about the sound of the MMMicroOne speakers. They were perceived as quite a bargain at $2500, but I believe I have heard the price is now $4K. Still, just because both are stand-mounted small speakers with pretensions to greatness, it would be interesting to hear from people who have had the opportunity to hear both speakers.

I do think KEF should have had a dedicated stand for the LS50 and not made people go on a search of their own. The MMMicroOne speakers do come with a pair of stands.

Two totally different products in my estimation.

-The LS50 is amazingly unfussy about set up and the rep made that very clear. It was something
the engineers made sure to take into account. They will perform well off axis, near walls, away from walls etc.
The set up in Newport was not perfect, but no matter where I was in the room it was remarkable to hear
a believable stereo image.

-The E MO was set up very well, completely away from boundaries, driven by the new PBD integrated amp/DAC/streamer.
I felt the sound was a bit leaner. There was not a lot of body or warmth, but a tremendous recorded detail. decay,
and imaging.

Both speakers are well made and very attractive.

The only FAIR comparison is to swamp them out with the same music, same electronics, in the room IMO.

mep · Jun 2, 2013

Andre-Thanks for the response. Of course they are two totally different products. Different companies and vastly different designs just for starters. The only thing they have in common is they are stand-mounted speakers. Several reviews I read about the LS50 echoed your comments with regards to the fact that the LS50s aren't finicky with regards to room set up.

My question is will the LS50s work in decent sized rooms? Where is the line drawn with regards to the size of the room? There is something very compelling about this speaker. The size, the shape, the kick-ass looking driver, and the technology that KEF brings to the table for a 50th anniversary speaker project. They just look cool and my gut tells me that these will appreciate in value over time as so few audio products actually do.

Andre Marc · Jun 2, 2013

mep said:
Andre-Thanks for the response. Of course they are two totally different products. Different companies and vastly different designs just for starters. The only thing they have in common is they are stand-mounted speakers. Several reviews I read about the LS50 echoed your comments with regards to the fact that the LS50s aren't finicky with regards to room set up.

My question is will the LS50s work in decent sized rooms? Where is the line drawn with regards to the size of the room? There is something very compelling about this speaker. The size, the shape, the kick-ass looking driver, and the technology that KEF brings to the table for a 50th anniversary speaker project. They just look cool and my gut tells me that these will appreciate in value over time as so few audio products actually do.

The speakers will do very well in any reasonable size room in my opinion. Steve was a witness to the when the rep
played some outrageously dynamic orchestral pieces, along with an ORGAN piece (!) and a piece with canon shots. Several folks
literally jumped out their seats. But they won't fill up a palatial living room. They are specd at 48 hz bass wise, but seemed do go much lower.

There is absolutely nothing to dislike about these speakers, and I would have walked out with a pair from the show if not for
the fact I have 4 pairs of speakers in the house..Harbeth, Spendor, Thiel, and Pardigm, plus a new speaker in for review. I would
need to liquidate something to make room.

Incidentally, I just received a pair of speakers from Bogdan Audio Creations called the Art Deco that also use a single coaxial driver and very
much remind me of the LS50s, although they are small floor standers. The similarities are amazing, with the Bogdans going for $2500. I am very much looking forward to this review.

BTW, they also played some Seal, some vocal pieces, and more. They had a sound that was so unmechanical, so un hifi, yet were
thoroughly modern. I really heard way too much etched, metallic, and hyper analytic sound at the show.

mep · Jun 2, 2013

Andre-So is it fair to say you were smitten with them? We all know that for box speakers, the box has a huge influence on the sound of the speaker. That's why companies like Wilson, Magico, YG, and Rockport go through such herculean efforts to make their boxes as inert as possible. When you have a speaker like the LS50, there just isn't much box to begin with and they have braced and damped the box and curved the front baffle all in order to reduce the sound signature/influence from the box. Due to their size and shape, they should image like crazy. My biggest concern is that they violate one of my fundemental rules for speakers, and that is to sound realistic in terms of scale and power, you need to move lots of air. The drivers in the LS50 just can't move that much air.

Andre Marc · Jun 2, 2013

mep said:
Andre-So is it fair to say you were smitten with them? We all know that for box speakers, the box has a huge influence on the sound of the speaker. That's why companies like Wilson, Magico, YG, and Rockport go through such herculean efforts to make their boxes as inert as possible. When you have a speaker like the LS50, there just isn't much box to begin with and they have braced and damped the box and curved the front baffle all in order to reduce the sound signature/influence from the box. Due to their size and shape, they should image like crazy. My biggest concern is that they violate one of my fundemental rules for speakers, and that is to sound realistic in terms of scale and power, you need to move lots of air. The drivers in the LS50 just can't move that much air.

Smitten is the operative word. I can tell you now, if building a new system, I would buy the LS50s, match them up with either the ARC VSi60, the Bob Carver Black Magic, the Densen B-110, or the Marantz Ltd Edition integrated, some decent cables and I would be very happy.

I have an interesting take on the heroic taming of cabinet resonance. I often feel the cure causes another ailment. The energy HAS to go somewhere. I feel that if you eliminate all cabinet ringing, you then get driver ringing. I hear it with Magico especially. I know of no musical instrument that is inert or with out resonance, same for the human body when it vocalizes. I'm a believer in that you can't fool mother nature. There is always an unintended consequence. No one who has EVER heard my Harbeth compact 7 ES3's ever mentioned cabinet sound or resonance.

But I do respect the efforts put forth and it is a noble goal.

Ask Steve about how we were amazed at the excursion of the LS50's driver. Moving air? And then some!!!!!!!!
The rep mentioned the unusually large magnet used, and the voice coil, which was designed not to compress or
distort even at ridiculous volumes.

Hopefully somebody else who heard them can comment, even if they disagree.

mep · Jun 2, 2013

From what I have read, the LS50s need an amp that can handle 4 ohm impedance dips and have a fair amount of current available. 200 watt amps seem to be the sweet spot from what I have read. I would think the little Carver Black Magic would not be a good match due to its very low power output and low current.

Andre Marc · Jun 2, 2013

mep said:
From what I have read, the LS50s need an amp that can handle 4 ohm impedance dips and have a fair amount of current available. 200 watt amps seem to be the sweet spot from what I have read. I would think the little Carver Black Magic would not be a good match due to its very low power output and low current.

Yes, on paper. But I can tell you that I am driving the 4 ohm Thiel CS2.4s with the Carver with no strain what so ever.

Kef says recommended amplification is 25 to 100 wpc.

The reviewer at What HiFi used a 35 wpc integrated btw and the gave it "5 stars"

I have seen other reviews where they used solid state power mongers too.

Read the SoundStage review...spot on.

Part of their big sound had to do with how the LS50 projected soundwaves unencumbered by their cabinets, to lay out an enormous soundstage with recording after recording. They “disappeared” completely into those vast soundstages, giving no aural hint of their actual physical locations

and:

....what made the LS50 sound downright spectacular was its exceptional voicing throughout the audioband. It made this big-sounding little speaker sound so natural and real that I’m pretty sure it could give a number of much costlier speakers, stand-mounted and floorstanding, grief.

Also check out Neil Gader's in TAS and John Atkinson's in Stereophile.

mep · Jun 2, 2013

When did Neil Gader review them in TAS? I read the Stereophile review.

Andre Marc · Jun 2, 2013

mep said:
When did Neil Gader review them in TAS? I read the Stereophile review.

March 2013 issue. Unfortunately, he did not list partnering equipment.

Steve Williams · Jun 2, 2013

Mark

This speaker is everything that Andre says and more. I'm buying a pair to give to my youngest daughter. They will fill any reasonable size room and those dynamic parts that Andre mentioned nearly blew me off my seat.

mauidan · Jun 2, 2013

Andre Marc said:
Smitten is the operative word. I can tell you now, if building a new system, I would buy the LS50s, match them up with either the ARC VSi60, the Bob Carver Black Magic, the Densen B-110, or the Marantz Ltd Edition integrated, some decent cables and I would be very happy.

Sounds like the LS50s deserve the new Audio Research VSi75 integrated amplifier. 75 watts per channel out of the KT120's into 4 or 8ohm loads, and a new 103 step volume control. $8000 MSRP.

Andre Marc · Jun 2, 2013

devert said:
Sounds like the LS50s deserve the new Audio Research VSi75 integrated amplifier. 75 watts per channel out of the KT120's into 4 or 8ohm loads, and a new 103 step volume control. $8000 MSRP.

View attachment 10037

Two words...4 syllables...WHOLLY ****!

mauidan · Jun 2, 2013

Andre Marc said:
Two words...4 syllables...WHOLLY ****!

Surprised you didn't notice the VSi75 powering the Vandersteen Carbon Quatro speakers.

Andre Marc · Jun 2, 2013

devert said:
Surprised you didn't notice the VSi75 powering the Vandersteen Carbon Quatro speakers.

View attachment 10038

wowza! I did not go in the room as I saw the exact same demo at CES. I assumed they were using a VSi60 again.

taters · Jun 18, 2013

devert said:
Sounds like the LS50s deserve the new Audio Research VSi75 integrated amplifier. 75 watts per channel out of the KT120's into 4 or 8ohm loads, and a new 103 step volume control. $8000 MSRP.

View attachment 10037

I don't think you have to spend 8k for amplification for these speakers. You can pick up a good Intergrated for 4k and be more than happy. If I had to start all over again I would buy the kef's. I think the kefs with a good source and a Rel sub would kick ass on a lot of more expensive systems I heard at the show.

mep · Jun 18, 2013

And maybe the JOB amp that several members here have bought and raved about would be a really good match as well. I think it's $1500.

joeinid · Jun 18, 2013

mep said:
And maybe the JOB amp that several members here have bought and raved about would be a really good match as well. I think it's $1500.

+1

I think that pair would be awesome.

PeterA · Jun 19, 2013

Andre Marc said:
I have an interesting take on the heroic taming of cabinet resonance. I often feel the cure causes another ailment. The energy HAS to go somewhere. I feel that if you eliminate all cabinet ringing, you then get driver ringing. I hear it with Magico especially. I know of no musical instrument that is inert or with out resonance, same for the human body when it vocalizes.

Andre, could you describe how a ringing driver sounds to you? Some speaker designers want inert cabinets and some want resonating cabinets. Even though musical instruments and human bodies all resonate, does this mean that a speaker must also resonate for the music to sound real?

A speaker is transducing? an electrical signal into sound waves. An instrument and body are doing something very different.

MylesBAstor · Jun 19, 2013

Originally Posted by Andre Marc

I have an interesting take on the heroic taming of cabinet resonance. I often feel the cure causes another ailment. The energy HAS to go somewhere. I feel that if you eliminate all cabinet ringing, you then get driver ringing. I hear it with Magico especially. I know of no musical instrument that is inert or with out resonance, same for the human body when it vocalizes.

Doesn't thermodynamics tell us it's converted into heat?

MMMicroOne vs. KEF LS50

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