New 260 in the house

scouter · May 25, 2013

I sold my Spectral 260 late last year in hopes of purchasing 400's, with the intention of moving into a larger room. Wife nixed the idea, so still in smaller room with no need for 400's (plus the costs of the 400s were, uh, out of my ball park). I delayed the repurchase of another 260 until I couldn't stand it any longer- I was using a well regarded inexpensive amp to get me by. Happy to say finally have another in the house, and wow, forgot how great the amp is! Listening sessions are frequent and long- into the early morning hours!! Gotta love Spectral!

mep · May 25, 2013

scouter said:
I sold my Spectral 260 late last year in hopes of purchasing 400's, with the intention of moving into a larger room. Wife nixed the idea, so still in smaller room with no need for 400's (plus the costs of the 400s were, uh, out of my ball park). I delayed the repurchase of another 260 until I couldn't stand it any longer- I was using a well regarded inexpensive amp to get me by. Happy to say finally have another in the house, and wow, forgot how great the amp is! Listening sessions are frequent and long- into the early morning hours!! Gotta love Spectral!

Pesky wives...

ack · May 25, 2013

scouter said:
I sold my Spectral 260 late last year in hopes of purchasing 400's, with the intention of moving into a larger room. Wife nixed the idea, so still in smaller room with no need for 400's (plus the costs of the 400s were, uh, out of my ball park). I delayed the repurchase of another 260 until I couldn't stand it any longer- I was using a well regarded inexpensive amp to get me by. Happy to say finally have another in the house, and wow, forgot how great the amp is! Listening sessions are frequent and long- into the early morning hours!! Gotta love Spectral!

Like I've said in the past... this stuff is addictive...

Elberoth · May 25, 2013

I have one at home right now. It is a great amp - fast, transparent, articulate. IMO, in some ways, it is even better than 360 mk 2 monos. Haven't heard the new 400.

scouter · May 25, 2013

Elberoth said:
I have one at home right now. It is a great amp - fast, transparent, articulate. IMO, in some ways, it is even better than 360 mk 2 monos. Haven't heard the new 400.

I have never had the privilege of hearing either mono amps (360's or 400's), but what separates the 260 from other amps I've had is the overall listenability. Yes- soundstage, articulation, timbre, bass, etc. are all excellent, but it is just easy to stop thinking about individual aspects of the amp, and just plain listen to music. Never fatiguing, always engaging! Spectral has to be the "best deal" in this hobby once you get to this level in pricing. The 400s must be superb!

joeinid · May 25, 2013

Elberoth said:
I have one at home right now. It is a great amp - fast, transparent, articulate. IMO, in some ways, it is even better than 360 mk 2 monos. Haven't heard the new 400.

Hi Adam,

Would love to know you take vs Dartzeel. What preamp are you using or are you going direct to the amp?

Elberoth · May 25, 2013

No, I'm going direct to amp. I have tried the SL-30 once, but my dCS Scarlatti sounded better. TotalDAC, Berkeley and MSB DAC IV also drive it without problems.

From what Robert Harley told me a our email exchange, he also uses his Spectral 360mk2 monos direct with Berkeley. His Spectral pre is collecting dust.

nirodha · May 27, 2013

Elberoth said:
No, I'm going direct to amp. I have tried the SL-30 once, but my dCS Scarlatti sounded better. TotalDAC, Berkeley and MSB DAC IV also drive it without problems.

From what Robert Harley told me a our email exchange, he also uses his Spectral 360mk2 monos direct with Berkeley. His Spectral pre is collecting dust.

Using the 360's / 1 straight from my dCS Elgar Plus. Never felt the need to put in a pre-amp. But, that does not mean that decent (!) pre would not improve the sound. No plans to find out however

>

Elberoth · May 27, 2013

The preamp will always cost you some extra, plus another pair of interconnects and power cord ... it all adds up pretty quick. Even IF a preamp will make your system sound slightly better, you can have a bigger gain in sound quality by spending the equivalent amount of money on better source DAC, cables or speakers.

In my experience, unless you use a TT, need to use lots of digital attenuation due to unusually high system gain or need the preamp as a tone control, the direct connection always wins.

vess · May 28, 2013

Elberoth said:
The preamp will always cost you some extra, plus another pair of interconnects and power cord ... it all adds up pretty quick. Even IF a preamp will make your system sound slightly better, you can have a bigger gain in sound quality by spending the equivalent amount of money on better source DAC, cables or speakers.

In my experience, unless you use a TT, need to use lots of digital attenuation due to unusually high system gain or need the preamp as a tone control, the direct connection always wins.

Hi, well, not my experience. Every time I tried a system without a preamp, it sounded way worse than with very good or excellent one. With digital or analog volume buit-in the DAC. Can't tell what Spectral preamp might do, but with other brands there is no way you can listen without a preamp. If you want the very best. My guess is it will be same with Spectral, I don't see why it should be an exception.

Vess

mauidan · May 28, 2013

vess said:
Hi, well, not my experience. Every time I tried a system without a preamp, it sounded way worse than with very good or excellent one. With digital or analog volume buit-in the DAC. Can't tell what Spectral preamp might do, but with other brands there is no way you can listen without a preamp. If you want the very best. My guess is it will be same with Spectral, I don't see why it should be an exception.

Vess

What DACs with buit-in digital or analog volume controls have you tried?

nirodha · May 29, 2013

vess said:
Hi, well, not my experience. Every time I tried a system without a preamp, it sounded way worse than with very good or excellent one. With digital or analog volume buit-in the DAC. Can't tell what Spectral preamp might do, but with other brands there is no way you can listen without a preamp. If you want the very best. My guess is it will be same with Spectral, I don't see why it should be an exception.

Vess

Well, one thing I can tell you from my own experience: the combination dCS (convertor/pre) and Spectral would be hard to beat!

vess · May 30, 2013

Hi, I have tried dCS and MSB.

Vess

Elberoth · May 30, 2013

Unless:

- you like a certain coloration your preamp is introducing (and for me it is a valid reason),
- due to high system gain you have to use too much of digital attenuation,
- have some mismatch issues between your DAC and poweramp,

there is no possibility for a preamp to improve the signal.

vess · May 30, 2013

Elberoth said:
Unless:

- you like a certain coloration your preamp is introducing (and for me it is a valid reason),
- due to high system gain you have to use too much of digital attenuation,
- have some mismatch issues between your DAC and poweramp,

there is no possibility for a preamp to improve the signal.

I am not going to debate here. I trust my ears, and don't care much about other people's opinion, if it is contrary to my ears. Also, I listen to music, not signals. So, when music is right for me, purity of the signal is irrelevant. And all the measurements confirming the latter.

Vess

FrantzM · May 30, 2013

vess said:
I am not going to debate here. I trust my ears, and don't care much about other people's opinion, if it is contrary to my ears. Also, I listen to music, not signals. So, when music is right for me, purity of the signal is irrelevant. And all the measurements confirming the latter.

Vess

Well if that is the case you should expect people not to care about your own's ..wouldn't you? It is a discussion forum, your opinions are welcome and cared about .. So are others people' .. Else there wouldn't be much to debate.

As an aside I am with Eberoth although my past experiences suggested that a preamp produced a better sound that was with Burmester DAC and the Burmester preamp the 011 brought the system to a , in my opinion, higher level. It could also have been psychology at play , something we, audiophiles deny with a vigor approaching intolerance.

vess · May 30, 2013

FrantzM said:
Well if that is the case you should expect people not to care about your own's ..wouldn't you? It is a discussion forum, your opinions are welcome and cared about .. So are others people' .. Else there wouldn't be much to debate.

As an aside I am with Eberoth although my past experiences suggested that a preamp produced a better sound that was with Burmester DAC and the Burmester preamp the 011 brought the system to a , in my opinion, higher level. It could also have been psychology at play , something we, audiophiles deny with a vigor approaching intolerance.

Hi, yes, the way I wrote it it sounds harsh, sorry. The emphasis is on "ears vs opinion", it means when I heared it right, noone can change my opinion. I have no problem with no one cares about my thoughts. I just have a lot of experience with top end systems and would like to share, might be helpful once in a while. I am a distributor by the way.

Vess

microstrip · May 30, 2013

Elberoth said:
Unless:

- you like a certain coloration your preamp is introducing (and for me it is a valid reason),
- due to high system gain you have to use too much of digital attenuation,
- have some mismatch issues between your DAC and poweramp,

there is no possibility for a preamp to improve the signal.

Elberoth,

If you call coloration something that makes perceivable many fundamental aspects of the recording, such as detail, natural ambiance, spaciousness, true dynamics and a correct decay of instruments we can agree.

IMHO, a coloration is a systematic effect, that will modify all recordings in the same way, independently of the way there were engineered. A good preamplifier will make much more than that.

People should remember that some DACs or sources have a real preamplifier integrated in them - in this case adding a preamplifier will not add anything positive to the system.

Anyway the main question will be the rhetoric question - what is the signal in an audio system? And, once we agree on it, how do you check for its integrity?

microstrip · May 30, 2013

FrantzM said:
(...) As an aside I am with Eberoth although my past experiences suggested that a preamp produced a better sound that was with Burmester DAC and the Burmester preamp the 011 brought the system to a , in my opinion, higher level. It could also have been psychology at play , something we, audiophiles deny with a vigor approaching intolerance.

Frantz,

I can not understand your post. So although your experience with Burmester suggests the opposite, you agree we prefer preamplifiers just because "you like a certain coloration your preamp is introducing"? A lifetime of being an audiophile and we still have no other explanation for it other than psychology at play?

mauidan · May 30, 2013

vess said:
Hi, yes, the way I wrote it it sounds harsh, sorry. The emphasis is on "ears vs opinion", it means when I heared it right, noone can change my opinion. I have no problem with no one cares about my thoughts. I just have a lot of experience with top end systems and would like to share, might be helpful once in a while. I am a distributor by the way.

Vess

Thanks for the info on the DACs you've heard.

FYI- if you're a distributor, the WBF TOS requires you show that in your signature.

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