Vegetarian experiment: Day 1...

Keith_W

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People with blood type "0" cannot be vegetarians:

http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/typeindexer.htm

What a bunch of absolute tripe!

If people here get upset about audio snake oil salesmen, there is an even bigger snake oil industry in diets and alternative medicine. Unfortunately, those snake oil salesmen tend to be a little more sophisticated. There is a huge market of gullible and scientifically illiterate people out there. That is why this industry flourishes.
 

MylesBAstor

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Technically, we in nutrition no longer call it a vegetarian but a plant based diet since people choose to eat this way for many reasons eg. reducing their carbon footprint, health, not wanting to eat animals, etc. One problem with (and I won't go into all the issues) is balancing out your amino acid profile since plant proteins are "incomplete" proteins. This means that they lack some amino acids and have higher concentrations of others. The end result is that you will see say in the case of cereals, a blend to compensate and try to normalize the amino acid profile. Otherwise, people in their quest say for healthier diet, may actually be doing more harm than good.
 

Andre Marc

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What a bunch of absolute tripe!

If people here get upset about audio snake oil salesmen, there is an even bigger snake oil industry in diets and alternative medicine. Unfortunately, those snake oil salesmen tend to be a little more sophisticated. There is a huge market of gullible and scientifically illiterate people out there. That is why this industry flourishes.

I had never heard of that blood types determine what the best diet is...I agree, pure nonsense.
 

Andre Marc

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Technically, we in nutrition no longer call it a vegetarian but a plant based diet since people choose to eat this way for many reasons eg. reducing their carbon footprint, health, not wanting to eat animals, etc. One problem with (and I won't go into all the issues) is balancing out your amino acid profile since plant proteins are "incomplete" proteins. This means that they lack some amino acids and have higher concentrations of others. The end result is that you will see say in the case of cereals, a blend to compensate and try to normalize the amino acid profile. Otherwise, people in their quest say for healthier diet, may actually be doing more harm than good.

I was under the impression that hemp is considered to have a virtually perfect amino acid profile.
 

MylesBAstor

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I was under the impression that hemp is considered to have a virtually perfect amino acid profile.

Yes it's pretty good but still find it combined with other proteins. Also there is some product to product variability (amount of fiber, protein, etc.) that may affect the actual amount of protein/serving.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20977230
 

Andre Marc

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Yes it's pretty good but still find it combined with other proteins. Also there is some product to product variability (amount of fiber, protein, etc.) that may affect the actual amount of protein/serving.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20977230

Thanks for the info. I tend to purchase mine from local organic markets, then grind it along with flax seed.

It has a nutty flavor.
 

MylesBAstor

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Here's another better reference from Jerry Brainum, a guy that knows his stuff!

www.ironmanmagazine.com/protein-science-for-bodybuilders
 

Miro Krajnc

Well-Known Member
I had never heard of that blood types determine what the best diet is...I agree, pure nonsense.

I`m sure the above wasn`t meant as an argument, because there is just an unbelievable amount of the things we don`t know
yet. On the other hand, you seem to be intrigued enough by the vegetarian "fashion", wanting to experience it for yourself,
which can be considered only a good thing.
Of course, I`m not saying I have a firm view on this matter, but I`m not sure if there are any nutrition specialist
contributing to this topic and thought you guys just want to exchange some info and views, without falling into discussion
winning contest.
Actually, I have three friends that have blood type "0" who tried to live without any kind of meat for a longer period. The
"winner" was the one who was able to "sustain this diet" for a month, but they all became very weak and felt really bad after this experiment.
Perhaps there are other reasons behind all this, other than "0" blood type, I don`t know, but I know plenty of other people
(non "0" blood types) who are vegetarians for decades and just seem to feel great and it is showing.

As with other things, I`m open to interesting views and I must say that if someone wins me with his argument in regard to anything, then be it.
Good luck!
 

Keith_W

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Miro, that article you linked to has a number of positive red flags for quackery:



- celebrity doctor
- secret / conspiracy
- buy my book
- be wary of treatments offered by a practitioner who is not a licensed physician or nurse

There are a number of physicians on WBF. I am aware of this blood group scam and I am sure the others are as well. It is complete rubbish - pay no attention to it.
 

Andre Marc

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I`m sure the above wasn`t meant as an argument, because there is just an unbelievable amount of the things we don`t know
yet. On the other hand, you seem to be intrigued enough by the vegetarian "fashion", wanting to experience it for yourself,
which can be considered only a good thing.
Of course, I`m not saying I have a firm view on this matter, but I`m not sure if there are any nutrition specialist
contributing to this topic and thought you guys just want to exchange some info and views, without falling into discussion
winning contest.
Actually, I have three friends that have blood type "0" who tried to live without any kind of meat for a longer period. The
"winner" was the one who was able to "sustain this diet" for a month, but they all became very weak and felt really bad after this experiment.
Perhaps there are other reasons behind all this, other than "0" blood type, I don`t know, but I know plenty of other people
(non "0" blood types) who are vegetarians for decades and just seem to feel great and it is showing.

As with other things, I`m open to interesting views and I must say that if someone wins me with his argument in regard to anything, then be it.
Good luck!


FYI...this experiment has nothing to do with "fashion".

-my goal is to get down to around 158 lbs. I have hit a plateau with my current food plan..
low carb, high protein.

-I refuse to eat industrially produced animal product anymore.

-A good percentage of humans sustain on a plant based diet..hindus, buddhists, etc.

-some of the largest, most powerful animals on earth consume nothing but plants and roots.
The largest and most powerful primate, the silver back gorilla consumes nothing but plants. They
share 99% of our DNA.

FYI, I believe in being an omnivore, so I will be eating animals again, but strictly locally
sourced, free roaming, naturally fed animals. I won't be patronizing giant shareholder owned
food conglomerates.
 

Miro Krajnc

Well-Known Member
OK, I get it, you want to loose weight. I have never had problems with excessive weight, but years ago I did one experiment, namely, for two weeks I ate only raw fruits, a few times a day. During this period I was full of energy, it was just incredible feeling, but when my family had lunch, I was drooling, so you could say my mental will was pretty weak. Eventually, I have switched back to the combination of raw and cooked food, but the memory of those days is still very much alive.

For loosing weight, I don`t think there is a better way than juicing and besides, it cleans your body:

http://www.doctoryourself.com/juicefast.html

http://diet.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Juice_Recipes_for_Weight_Loss

I do agree on all of your points, well, except that I won`t become an omnivore ever again, I feel no need for it anymore.
 

Andre Marc

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OK, I get it, you want to loose weight. I have never had problems with excessive weight, but years ago I did one experiment, namely, for two weeks I ate only raw fruits, a few times a day. During this period I was full of energy, it was just incredible feeling, but when my family had lunch, I was drooling, so you could say my mental will was pretty weak. Eventually, I have switched back to the combination of raw and cooked food, but the memory of those days is still very much alive.

For loosing weight, I don`t think there is a better way than juicing and besides, it cleans your body:

http://www.doctoryourself.com/juicefast.html

http://diet.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Juice_Recipes_for_Weight_Loss

I do agree on all of your points, well, except that I won`t become an omnivore ever again, I feel no need for it anymore.

I am at 166-168 lbs, I just want to get a bit leaner, so I am not really dealing with a weight issue.

Again, one of the benefits of a plant based diet is high nutrient content. Which means higher immunity, and
improved energy levels.

Juicing is nothing you can sustain, especially if you are an athlete, but it is a nice addition to the routine, especially in the summer.
 

Keith_W

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Mar 31, 2012
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There is no shortage of diet cranks or mystics or people who purport to have come up with the correct diet. IMO the only correct diet is what the nutritionists have said all along - a balanced diet of carbs, protein, and fat. The easiest way to get it is to eat the right proportions of grains, vegetables, fruit, and meat.

I understand if people want to give up meat for ethical or religious reasons. But there is no scientific reason for giving up meat.

Giving up meat does not reduce your chance of cancer. The cancer risk is associated with excessive meat consumption or heterocyclic amines from BBQ among other things.

It does not "give you more energy". I note that people who say "more energy" aren't talking about available kilojoules in food, because if they were, they would be eating hamburgers dripping in lard and gulping down litres of Coke. Instead, "more energy" refers to some kind of nebulous subjective feeling that they are somehow more energetic. Well, you get that if you drink coffee too.

Drinking pure juice does not "cleanse your body" either, another completely non-scientific term which has no definition. What do you mean by "cleanse your body"? By what objective criteria are you going to use to measure body cleansing? Which blood test, measuring the concentration of what molecule, do you use to judge if a body is dirty and in need of cleansing? "Body cleansing" is another one of those red flags which should really alert you that the person saying it is uttering some new age mumbo-jumbo, because it means nothing.

Vegetarian diets do not give you "higher immunity". How do you measure "higher immunity" anyway? Is there a blood test that measures your immune state? Have there been clinical trials that demonstrate that people who eat vegetable diets fall to infectious diseases less often?

I think it is a good idea to reduce meat consumption, but IMO there is no scientific reason to completely give it up. There is no conclusive evidence that an all vegetarian diet is good for you. It certainly isn't bad for you, provided you go through the trouble of making sure your diet still supplies the nutrition that you need. Like I said, the only good reasons for being vegetarian are ethical or religious.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
There is no shortage of diet cranks or mystics or people who purport to have come up with the correct diet. IMO the only correct diet is what the nutritionists have said all along - a balanced diet of carbs, protein, and fat. The easiest way to get it is to eat the right proportions of grains, vegetables, fruit, and meat.

I understand if people want to give up meat for ethical or religious reasons. But there is no scientific reason for giving up meat.

Giving up meat does not reduce your chance of cancer. The cancer risk is associated with excessive meat consumption or heterocyclic amines from BBQ among other things.

It does not "give you more energy". I note that people who say "more energy" aren't talking about available kilojoules in food, because if they were, they would be eating hamburgers dripping in lard and gulping down litres of Coke. Instead, "more energy" refers to some kind of nebulous subjective feeling that they are somehow more energetic. Well, you get that if you drink coffee too.

Drinking pure juice does not "cleanse your body" either, another completely non-scientific term which has no definition. What do you mean by "cleanse your body"? By what objective criteria are you going to use to measure body cleansing? Which blood test, measuring the concentration of what molecule, do you use to judge if a body is dirty and in need of cleansing? "Body cleansing" is another one of those red flags which should really alert you that the person saying it is uttering some new age mumbo-jumbo, because it means nothing.

Vegetarian diets do not give you "higher immunity". How do you measure "higher immunity" anyway? Is there a blood test that measures your immune state? Have there been clinical trials that demonstrate that people who eat vegetable diets fall to infectious diseases less often?

I think it is a good idea to reduce meat consumption, but IMO there is no scientific reason to completely give it up. There is no conclusive evidence that an all vegetarian diet is good for you. It certainly isn't bad for you, provided you go through the trouble of making sure your diet still supplies the nutrition that you need. Like I said, the only good reasons for being vegetarian are ethical or religious.


Keith

you beat me to it

The term "cleansing" is absolutely nonsensical.
 

Andre Marc

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There is no shortage of diet cranks or mystics or people who purport to have come up with the correct diet. IMO the only correct diet is what the nutritionists have said all along - a balanced diet of carbs, protein, and fat. The easiest way to get it is to eat the right proportions of grains, vegetables, fruit, and meat.

I understand if people want to give up meat for ethical or religious reasons. But there is no scientific reason for giving up meat.

Giving up meat does not reduce your chance of cancer. The cancer risk is associated with excessive meat consumption or heterocyclic amines from BBQ among other things.

It does not "give you more energy". I note that people who say "more energy" aren't talking about available kilojoules in food, because if they were, they would be eating hamburgers dripping in lard and gulping down litres of Coke. Instead, "more energy" refers to some kind of nebulous subjective feeling that they are somehow more energetic. Well, you get that if you drink coffee too.

Drinking pure juice does not "cleanse your body" either, another completely non-scientific term which has no definition. What do you mean by "cleanse your body"? By what objective criteria are you going to use to measure body cleansing? Which blood test, measuring the concentration of what molecule, do you use to judge if a body is dirty and in need of cleansing? "Body cleansing" is another one of those red flags which should really alert you that the person saying it is uttering some new age mumbo-jumbo, because it means nothing.

Vegetarian diets do not give you "higher immunity". How do you measure "higher immunity" anyway? Is there a blood test that measures your immune state? Have there been clinical trials that demonstrate that people who eat vegetable diets fall to infectious diseases less often?

I think it is a good idea to reduce meat consumption, but IMO there is no scientific reason to completely give it up. There is no conclusive evidence that an all vegetarian diet is good for you. It certainly isn't bad for you, provided you go through the trouble of making sure your diet still supplies the nutrition that you need. Like I said, the only good reasons for being vegetarian are ethical or religious.

There is a lot to digest here, no pun intended..;)

As far as my statements about higher immunity, or increased energy level, this all anecdotal information
from people I personally know who went vegetarian, vegan or plant based.

Secondly, while we are at it, IS there any world wide study done on the effects of a plant based diet?

As i said, I believe in being an omnivore. Giving some meat for me has nothing to do with religion, but the factis, going forward, mass produced, super market meat is out. I won't eat that fattened up, hormone laced, antibiotic infested garbage. So that means less meat, but higher quality. We are lucky here in that we have several natural animal farms here in San Diego.

Lastly, I keep repeating, let's look to the animals with our closes DNA match..primates. They can live to their 40s just as humans did just 100 years ago! The advances in medical care of course, have increased our life spans.

There must be some studies on on Gorillas or Orangutans that can give us some insight.
 

Andre Marc

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Mar 14, 2012
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There is no shortage of diet cranks or mystics or people who purport to have come up with the correct diet. IMO the only correct diet is what the nutritionists have said all along - a balanced diet of carbs, protein, and fat. The easiest way to get it is to eat the right proportions of grains, vegetables, fruit, and meat.

I understand if people want to give up meat for ethical or religious reasons. But there is no scientific reason for giving up meat.

Giving up meat does not reduce your chance of cancer. The cancer risk is associated with excessive meat consumption or heterocyclic amines from BBQ among other things.

It does not "give you more energy". I note that people who say "more energy" aren't talking about available kilojoules in food, because if they were, they would be eating hamburgers dripping in lard and gulping down litres of Coke. Instead, "more energy" refers to some kind of nebulous subjective feeling that they are somehow more energetic. Well, you get that if you drink coffee too.

Drinking pure juice does not "cleanse your body" either, another completely non-scientific term which has no definition. What do you mean by "cleanse your body"? By what objective criteria are you going to use to measure body cleansing? Which blood test, measuring the concentration of what molecule, do you use to judge if a body is dirty and in need of cleansing? "Body cleansing" is another one of those red flags which should really alert you that the person saying it is uttering some new age mumbo-jumbo, because it means nothing.

Vegetarian diets do not give you "higher immunity". How do you measure "higher immunity" anyway? Is there a blood test that measures your immune state? Have there been clinical trials that demonstrate that people who eat vegetable diets fall to infectious diseases less often?

I think it is a good idea to reduce meat consumption, but IMO there is no scientific reason to completely give it up. There is no conclusive evidence that an all vegetarian diet is good for you. It certainly isn't bad for you, provided you go through the trouble of making sure your diet still supplies the nutrition that you need. Like I said, the only good reasons for being vegetarian are ethical or religious.


BTW, where did you come up with the fact there are no studies about the positive effects of a plant based diet???

A simple google search brought me numerous, credible studies that a plant based diet can reverse diabetes, reduce cholesteral,
improved digestion, and reduce RISK of cancer..note the word risk.


Your sweeping statement is clearly an opinion.
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/articles/2013/01/07/plant-based-diets-a-primer
 

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