Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

Jim is very good, right down to the way I put my hands in my pockets. I'm sure he reads my blog and seen the photos but he is very accurate in a cartoonish way

How about the speakers?

You are absolutely correct and it is my mistake so my apologies to you and Christian as here is the post......I did exactly what Lloyd said and had them under my amps

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...Steve-Williams&p=341753&viewfull=1#post341753

it's been a few yers since I had them in my system so thanks for pointing out my error. The reality for me however is that as goods the SP's were it wasn't until i removed them from my system that I discovered what deficiencies they brought to my system and for my ears it was a total loss of ambient sound

I'm curious as to what the MSRP of the Ultra 6's are now. IIRC when I bought them they listed for over $900 per unit

Dos Amigos Reunite In Southern California

I've been rather silent for the past 3 months here however I'm sure most of you are aware of my system changes made over these past several months and my involvement with Center Stage feet except to say that since I posted last my entire front and back end electronics are completely standing on Center Stage feet. I've been doing a lot of traveling and hearing a lot of amazing systems far and near.

What was fun for me was a minor reunion of the Tres Amigos rides again with this time 2 of us getting together recently at my house for 4 days . For all of us I am sure, it is not only the fun of assembling a system to one's satisfaction but so also over that time developing remarkable friendships with fellow audiophiles from far and near that become lifelong acquaintances.So it is with the Tres Amoigos
marty
mobiusman (Russ)
me

I've known Marty and Russ for close to 20 years and the number of times we have been together, audio shows we attended together as well as traveling together all over the globe, the most fun has always been when the 3 of us can ride together In the absence of such it was a real treat for me to have spent 4 days this past week with Russ the mobiusman who decided to get out of the very frigid New Jersey sea board and come west to Southern California where the days were a balmy mid 70's, until the day after Russ arrived when we had very heavy rain. Nothing stopped us however as we managed to log close to 500 miles of driving fro place to place to hear so many great systems.

On the day it rained we drove 100 miles south to be hosted personally by fellow WBF member asiufy (Alex) owner with his partner Fabio Alma music which in the few years since opening they seem to have become the marquis of high end audio for all of San Diego County and for this I always wish Alex and Fabio continuing success in their business. They carry first class lines and they know their stuff. No BS with an easy trade and buy program

Alex played for Russ and I a demo that I truly would not have expected. Alex demoed Wilson Alexia Series ll, TOL Kubala Sosna cables, ARC Ref 10 preamp, D'Agostino Momento 400 monos with a Lin player etc, etc

I was simply stunned at the sound I heard sitting behind Russ. These speakers were set top starting with the Wilson technique but fine tuned with the ears of Fabio and Alex. This was done in 1/2" increments forward and inward as well as the toe in and took an entire day. The final set up was outside the wilson recommended ratio but the sound was simply beyond what I had expected.Alex threw every top of music at it and there was nothing lacking and this was a very large room

Thank you Alex for making that drive a really wonderful listening as well as a learning experience and I have owned Wilson speakers since 1993.

On our second night I felt that no trip to southern California would be complete without taking Russ for a visit to my good friend Philip O'Hanlon who is now the USA distributor for Gryphon and recent USA distributor for Vivid. Phillip's Gryphon gear was all out at dealers but the real reason we visited was to hear both the Vivid G1 Series 2 and the brand new Vivid Spirit. That was quite a demo and I must say (no offense to Rodney Gold who owns the Spirit) that for my ears I preferred the G1 V2 to the Spirit. Philip has a huge room (40 x 30 x 23) and it is almost an Infinite Baffle. The subs on the Spirit I thought was ginormous and filled even Phillip's very large room so much so that my impression is that the Spirit was bass heavy and rolled off at the top end when compared to the G1 V2 which IMO had excellent bass but not to the extent of the Spirit it had a better top end which did not seem rolled off as compared to the Spirit

The clincher was listening to a track off Phillip's demo disc 18 with Depeche Mode, Welcome To My World. With the Spirit I thought there was going to be plaster falling from the ceiling whereas when played with the G1 V2 the bass was perfect for my ears

All in all the 3-4 hours we were at Phillip's were again educational for me as I am willing to bet there aren't too many places where you can hear G1 V2 side by side with the Spirit.

The G1 is a big speaker and even though the Spirits 4"shorter than the G1, the Spirit is a MUCH bigger speaker and one's room needs to be huge for this speaker to sing

Russ and I ate at some great south Orange county restaurants and spent the last night in Laguna Beach on the sand at one of the local restaurants and the weather was cooperative as the sunset was without a cloud in the sky

Now to the real interesting stuff that Russ and I discovered in my system and the epiphany we both had with a change to my system that took all of 10 seconds and cost nothing to do

Let me first preface by reminding readers that in my last room I had a pair of JL Audio Gotham G113 subs and in my present room I have a pair of JL Audio F113 Fathom subs. I can honestly say that attempting to match subs and get them integrated in a room with full range speakers often becomes an exercise in futility and as my good friend ddk says, the subs fight with the main speakers and the deep bass usually is terrible at worst and so so at best.I have had countless visitors from all over the world visit with me and I always pay attention to listeners' observations. Recently I decided to adjust the listening position of my chair and settled on moving it 8" forward. This was with the advice of many listeners including members DaveyF, Leif S, and Damon VS. Also, countless listeners have told me that I do not need the twin Fathom subs in my room and this was from members with darn good ears such as Gary Koh, Bruce Brown, Leif and Damon to the point where in the past 4 months I have been listening entirely with the subs off including when listening to large symphonics. I have to admit that old habits die hard and that was for me the most difficult to relinquish as I felt they were necessary for the lower register in large symphonics.There was no doubt in my mind that the bass even though sounding better without the subs still lacked authority so for me it became a double edged sword,.......until my visit with Russ when a 5 year quandary was how to get deep bass with authority in my room without the use of subs.......

I should call this next part of this post, "I should have listened to good advice, but I was too vain and stubborn to heed"

Prior to my decision to build my room into my house rather than as an addition onto my house I had little space to work with and all my friends told me to sell my Lamm gear and change speakers as there was no way I could build a room without blowing the back wall off with y existing gear. Hence my consultation with my acoustician Ronnie Schnitta o said there was no problem in designing the room . Her mantra was "trying to fool my speakers that the room is twice the size". She did a terrific job which can be read at the beginning of this blog. What she did tell me was to experiment with opening the side wall drapes as well as the front wall drapes to change the sound. I was too pleased with the visual effect and TBH quite happy with the sound in the room to leave the front or side wall drapes open.

Then along comes my good friend DDK who suggests the room is a bit over damped and convinced me to remove the Paradise foam hidden in the picture on the front wall. Sonically David was right on. He also suggested that it would be a good idea to leave the side drapes open, as well as the front wall and even better to remove some of the drapes. Again my vanity put blinkers on my eyes and with the room recently opened I wasn't wanting to quickly change it. Also the effects that I was hearing was good but not enough to leave the drapes open.

And TBH over the next 3-4 years I never re-explored the possibility of the room being over damped


Russ and I listened the first day initially with the subs on and then off,and at the end Russ also preferred the sound with the subs off however Russ said that he "likes a little bit of sizzle to his music and he wondered if the room was a bit over damped as he felt we were losing some bottom end energy.

Suffice it to say the experiment was immediately started. We started initially with the recommendation made by David which was to open the drapes from the middle 1/3 of each side. When we did this we were shocked but not in such a great way as the sound was booming and overloaded the room. we figured might be onto something and gradually closed the side panel drapes, listening with each minor adjustment. It wasn't until we had closed 1/2 of what was previously open and we sat and listened that the epiphany was there as Russ turned around and looked at me in amazement. To my ears I can say that I have never heard the deep bass in my system sound as good as it did. There was no overload or roominess but rather deep bass in all it's glory.

All in all I out guess that the side drapes were opened about 2 -3 feet and I will include some pictures. Having overcome the shock of such a discovery we decided there might be more and we opened the front wall drapes which cover the windows. Once again the effect was way too overpowering for the room and we began adjusting the drapes on each side of the large art work on the wall. When all was said and done the drapes were opened all of 5" on each side to expose some underlying wall.

Each time a change was made the same song was played at the same gain on my preamp. I've mentioned it before but if you want to test your room for deep bass try starting with Welcome to my World by Depeche Mode. This is what we did

So here I am some 5 years after my room was built and still not heeding countless remarks from listeners such as the lack of need for additional subs in my room I finally am finally playing with the subs off but last week I discovered with the help of one other Amigo that letting go of my vanity and predetermined biases and opening the room drapes, that I achieved a level of enjoyment in my room that I have never before experienced.

The immersive effect we heard with the Center Stage feet made the sound almost holographic. My take from this lesson is never to be so close minded to write off reasonable suggestions that are easy to implement.

I also suspect that the room overdamping contributed to a loss of deep bass, as well as less than complete immersive effect from the Center Stage Feet. This became evident almost immediately with a simple parting of the drapes

The last night Russ and I listened to tape and one of the highlights was listening to Witches Brew which I had heard before but never with the drapes parted. Irecord was, the tape was just so much bettert was probably the best music I have ever heard on my system. Thank you to my brothers in that country shaped like a boot for providing access to that tape. In fact Russ after the tape was over asked if I would play the record in order to compare.As good as the record was the ope was just quantum leaps better

So at the end of this big long post a big shoutout and thank you to DDK and Bonzo 75 who made the suggestion years ago but thanks to me and my vanity it never got done until recent meeting of the Amigos. If I had only listened to you guys but you both owe yourself a followup listen now to hear the difference. This isn't subtle

I'll post some photos of the simple parting of the drapes and how for e it immediately obviated the need of supplemental subs in my system. My JL Audio Fathom F113's are coming out of the system and will be for sale. Anyone reading this who wants a perfect pair of Fathom 113 Ver 1send me a PM

Not sure if Russ will get a chance to read this but if is I will let him comment about the changes and the music we used throughout


Russ, my Amigo, I had an absolutely wonderful time with you. The time was brief but fully packed. I learned a lot but the lesson to this story is not to ignore suggestions listeners make to improve your system. I learned my lesson almost 3 years after the fact but haven't stopped smiling since