Some Simple Tips To Fend Off Someone

mep

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Lee- I am considering the average training level of members which I think for those who are the most interested is zilch. I am not someone who has zero training on how to protect myself and I have confidence in my ability to protect myself. That confidence didn't come without pain and sweat.
 

RBFC

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Lee- I am considering the average training level of members which I think for those who are the most interested is zilch. I am not someone who has zero training on how to protect myself and I have confidence in my ability to protect myself. That confidence didn't come without pain and sweat.

Exactly why we must sequentially build a simple, robust system! There are many factors that must be taken into account:

1. initial physical condition
2. amount of time that can be committed to training
3. exposure/risk analysis of one's lifestyle with attention to the type(s) of encounters that are likely
4. available use of "force multipliers", whether improvised weapons or dedicated weapons and the likelihood that one will actually have them on hand at any given time
5. mental/emotional commitment to the use of force in defending yourself or your loved ones
6. pre-existing psychological disposition toward conflict/violence

There are more, but I hope this provides a foundation for "profiling" oneself.

Mark, in your case, I applaud your confidence. There are many training routes to various levels of proficiency, and I've seen quite a few. Since our purpose here is to educate, please let me continue with this progression without further poisoning of the well. Ultimately, this thread may stimulate interested parties to seek some live training (for which there is no substitute). Since most confrontations actually end without any physical component, the information already provided is the most useful of all. Understand that we will develop a use for the fence (as Thompson stated, for your own purposes) that fits into the overall process. Remember that the "hands on" element of Thompson's fence comes from handling drunken bar-goers who are in his face itching for a fight... the process must be more aggressive by nature in that instance.

There's a method to my madness here, so please let things develop and the goal will become clearer.

Lee
 

mep

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Well if I lived in a freedom state like FL or TX, I would pack some heat. Best deterrent known to man.

I agree. The problem is that you might not always have a gun on you, but you can't leave home without your arms and legs.
 

DaveyF

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As a pacifist,( which I'm sure we all:D) I'm not too sure why I'm reading this thread:confused:
Anyhow, a friend of mine who is a MA teacher in Kenpo told me many years ago that the absolute best thing to do if you are in a potentially confrontational situation is to always retreat.....always.
If for some reason that is not possible, to remember that EVERYTHING is a weapon...EVERYTHING.

Not sure how he came to that, but I'm sure others here will have something to say about that.:D
 

JackD201

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I pretty sure none of us here like violence, unfortunately there are people out there that aren't like us.

As far as lesson number one on criminals goes, that being don't look like a target. I couldn't agree more. There's a balance between looking like a hard target while not looking like a rooster looking for a fight. Especially in depressed areas, there are a lot of people that don't necessarily want to rob you but have protection of their turf as a motivation for violence.
 

RBFC

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The fence provides other advantages than those described by Thompson in the clip above. Before we move on, it must be understood that Thompson's background and occupational needs dictated his use of the fence. He employed it with the "touching" shown because holding back unruly patrons is commonplace in the bouncing trade. For use in the civilian self-protection environment, others (including myself) have adapted it to suit the application. It should be clear that a bouncer's job is to "hold ground", while others are completely free to "give ground" against an incoming threat. Therefore, the employment of the fence and the accompanying tactics are adjusted to allow optimal tactical movement patterns.

Coupling effective movement along with the use of the fence, we are able to provide a difficult target for the infamous "sucker punch". When confronted with an apparently-aggressive individual closing on us, our instinct is to "give ground" or back up. This retreat, stepping backward, actually assists the attacker. Either we corner ourselves, or we trip over an obstacle. The reduction in escape options helps the attacker and also causes us to panic. Therefore, the fence must be combined with an effective movement plan that does not play into the hands of the attacker. As stated before, backing up is not a good option! However, our desire to back up is overwhelming in these situations. So, we must employ a slightly different method of giving ground that does not have the dangers of backing straight up.

Short review: the fence sends the signal to the attacker to stay back. Since your hands are already up, there is also a physical barrier against him striking you directly in the head ( a mere flinch will complete the coverage of your head from the blow). Since backing straight up is not a good option, we need to move in a way that does not make us an easier target. There is little need to touch the attacker, since we're really trying to make space rather than close the distance.

For an effective movement pattern, I always use the "yellow brick road" from the movie The Wizard of Oz as my example. The brick road is a spiral of increasing radius. By moving backward in a spiraling pattern, we can satisfy several of the tactical requirements of the encounter. First, we can use our peripheral vision to get an impression of the area into which we will step, greatly reducing tripping and losses of balance as well as getting trapped in a corner. Second, we can satisfy the frightened brain's intense desire for more visual information to help in decision-making under critical stress. Third, as we circle the attacker, he cannot effectively generate as much linear momentum to shove us, etc. Finally, this movement pattern allows us to give space while earning extra time to plan, as the attacker must re-adjust his plan at the same time.

Of course, we won't be doing all this in complete silence. As part of the "automatic stranger-handling process", we must have a pre-rehearsed series of commands that escalate in intensity if the attacker continues his advance. For those of you that might say all of this "happens too fast" for all this, there are two considerations:

1. Our perception of time under stress is directly related to our fear and indecision at the moment.

2. Since the fence has us place our hands up, we are actually in a classic boxer's stance, but we don't appear aggressive. To the opponent, the fence looks passive and uncertain. To us, the fence is "OK, I'm ready! I'll use the rest of this verbal/movement process to dissuade you from attacking me, but if you cross this line, I'm ready." I hope you can see how this whole process virtually eliminates the chance that we will be caught off-guard, even though we're not physically fighting yet. One hour of practice with this process can ingrain the fundamentals of how it works and how effective it actually is.

Next, we'll discuss the verbal series of commands used in conjunction with the above process. Then, we'll put it all together into a simple, easy-to-execute plan that is attainable for almost everyone.

Lee
 

amirm

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The "fence" is the universally-understood pose of putting up both hands in front of you: Hold it right there! Back off! Not so close!
Fascinating stuff Lee! Question: when I see the police in reality shows standing at 45 degrees with one hand up in this stance and the other near their holster, is that a modified Fence? They seem to be following the same thing albeit with protecting and having the option of the side arm coming into play. Yes?
 

Steve Williams

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Fascinating stuff Lee! Question: when I see the police in reality shows standing at 45 degrees with one hand up in this stance and the other near their holster, is that a modified Fence? They seem to be following the same thing albeit with protecting and having the option of the side arm coming into play. Yes?

I don't know Amir but that fence doesn't bother me as much as his other hand on his gun. That would make me stop pretty quick not from his fence
 

amirm

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I don't know Amir but that fence doesn't bother me as much as his other hand on his gun. That would make me stop pretty quick not from his fence
I think the vantage point is different. The perp doesn't see it from the camera angle. He sees this gentle hand as in the video in front of him and hence the reason I asked. Surely the cop has the option of pulling the weapon out but instead is choosing to use this hand gesture.
 

RBFC

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I think the vantage point is different. The perp doesn't see it from the camera angle. He sees this gentle hand as in the video in front of him and hence the reason I asked. Surely the cop has the option of pulling the weapon out but instead is choosing to use this hand gesture.

Amir,

We've seen the failure of that one-handed fence many times. If you watch a professional football game, you'll immediately understand why the one-hand fence fails. One cannot withstand an aggressive, incoming assailant while in the one-hand posture. Ever see a football lineman block that way? It doesn't work. Unless your hips are square to the vector of the incoming force, you cannot generate sufficient resistance against that force. A quick perusal of some Cops episodes will show the ensuing wrestling match that can occur due to failure of the one-hand fence. For generating forward force, there is no laboratory that has put as much time or money into the study of bodies colliding as professional football. Another way to picture this concept is to imagine what posture you would assume if I asked you to push a heavy refrigerator across the floor.... I'll bet it would not be the one-hand posture...

As for firearm-related topics, it has been agreed that we will not discuss firearms on WBF. All are free to email me through my fighting concepts website to ask any questions, and I will either answer or refer you to a subject matter expert.

Lee
 

RBFC

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The non-threatening fence

Here's a picture from some training a few years ago, where Frank is saying some bad things about my mother after I stole his parking place at WalMart:

IMG_0709.jpg

You can clearly see the "Whoa, stay back" attitude in my posture, yet I'm completely ready to attack if necessary (actually, I do in the remainder of the photo sequence...)

So, the fence can "behave" differently depending upon the situation.

Lee
 

RBFC

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Up to now, we've begun to develop a "process" that we will initiate anytime we are approached by a stranger, in a scenario where we are unsure of his intentions. This process includes awareness of his presence, the erecting of the fence, the outward spiral movement pattern, and the verbal interchange. Since we haven't discussed what to say, let's go there.

Since this whole process is aimed at non-violence (if possible) and the obvious identification of the opponent as the "aggressor" (for witnesses and legal justification), we must begin the verbal exchange in a polite manner.

1. Make a polite request: "Hey, buddy, stay back a bit, OK?"

2. If you do not get compliance from #1, then issue a command: "I said GET BACK!" (All the while, we're giving ground via the spiraling movement) If the guy doesn't respond, you KNOW he's up to no good. There is no longer a doubt as to his intentions (OK... obviously drunk, impaired, etc. folks might not respond. While possibly benign, this process still gives you the maximal amount of time and distance to determine their intentions.) The true bad guy will follow you in the circling movement and attempt to close the distance, despite your planned response. This is the "trigger" that gives us early warning of the impending assault.

3. If you are so inclined, and he has still not attacked you, you might use all the "colorful" language at your disposal to keep him away. This can work either way, by shocking him enough to make him desist or by infuriating him more. Also, witnesses might see you as more aggressive if you curse at him... Very situational.

Now, let's look at the whole scenario unfolding, and see why this process works.

You recognize a stranger approaching. You make a universal gesture and make a polite request for him to stay back. Your hands are non-threatening to him, but you are effectively in a very good boxing-style stance. You move your hands around a little as you talk, and you are spiraling backward. You shuffle your feet carefully, not crossing your feet as you step. Your peripheral vision allows you a glimpse of where you're stepping, and your circular movement allows you a panoramic view of your surroundings. You can scan for others to help you, look for barriers to hide behind, look for improvised weapons to use if necessary.... all while seeming to be simply backing off from a scary guy. Having a plan changes your mindset to one of action, rather than reaction. This helps to eliminate fear/paralysis when we're really scared.

And, we haven't even thrown a single blow yet. However, we've done enough to defuse a high percentage of potential physical assaults!

More later.

Lee
 

JackD201

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Man, I am loving this.
 

RBFC

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Things get physical

Well, you've done all the preceding steps perfectly, and this guy just doesn't get it! He keeps coming! Or, things got much more aggressive very quickly and you didn't even get a chance to finish your finely-rehearsed routine! Whatever the reason, you'll have to act to protect yourself. Remember, if you have loved ones with you, you're also charged with attempting to protect them as well.

If you look at the photo I posted a few posts above, you'll see how close the opponent can get while you have the fence up, yet you're not touching him. By continually moving your hands and "waving him off" (without dropping your guard position), he loses interest in your hands as being a threat. He essentially "filters" them out as a primary combative threat. This is an extremely important concept! If you play the "act" correctly, he will still see you as submissive when he is this close. So, you're moving your hands around in front of his face and basically getting them so close that he couldn't block you if you decided to strike him. The action/reaction curve works in your favor here. The better your "Academy Awards moment", the greater the advantage if you need to strike.

Understanding that a vast majority of our membership are not trained strikers, let's take a very simple, nasty approach. I'll pose the question, "How many of you have ever been poked in the eye accidentally?" What if we made the eye-poke a dedicated offensive weapon that we use with extreme prejudice. (That's right, nobody will ever insult your choice of speakers again!) So, we are getting our "weapon" within inches of his eyes and he's making no attempt to guard against them. We've proven this tactic in thousands of trials. Note that this is not what happens when two parties agree to fight on equal terms, this is a different setting.

If you make your dominant hand into the shape of the letter "C" and open it a little, you'll have one of the finest weapons in martial arts. This slightly-bent cupped formation of your fingers, forming a "beak" shape at the tips of the four fingers, is ideal for attacking the eye of the attacker. You should NOT leave your fingers straight, as you'll "jam" them and cause injury to yourself! Before anyone throws up on their computer, eye pokes typically result in corneal abrasion, which is definitely non-lethal and leads to a 1-2 week recovery with an eye patch in most cases. Nothing I will post is inherently lethal. The reason I chose the eye attack is the ratio of power/effect and that even the most untrained individual is immediately aware of how to do this. We've all trained at this.... who hasn't opened a roll of toilet paper by inserting their thumb through the plastic wrap? If you already intrinsically understand how to perform a technique, most of the preliminary work is done.

Here's the formation of the hand, showing the potential application on a dummy target:

IMG_0164.JPG

The strike is executed with a short whip-like motion, similar to a snake's strike. You can experiment with this by hanging a paper plate from a string (put the appropriate boss's or ex's picture on it if you wish) and trying the fingertip strike. Remember, you don't have to hit with your bodyweight like you would if you were punching. You can land an extremely effective blow like this while being held down on your back (we teach this in our rape-prevention modules). It doesn't take much practice to become passingly proficient. More practice puts you into "very dangerous" territory. With proper skill, the opponent who has been "set up" with the fence will not see the blow coming and be taken by shock when it lands.

Even if you miss (a possibility), the body's autonomic protective responses will engage to protect the eye from the threat. If you've ever stepped on a sharp object or touched a hot stove, you know the effect of autonomic response: it's an uncontrollable reflex that attempts to pull the affected area of the body away from the insult. Note that during the interval of time that the protective reflex is operating, the opponent is incapable of fighting back at you.

In situations where the "traveling" eye strike is not possible, there are many tactile methods of attacking the eyes. You may be held down, grabbed in a "bear hug", have the attacker in the back seat of your car, etc. where you cannot generate any striking force. The following photos demonstrate a few methods of using the head's landmarks to feel where the opponent's eye is located. We're all built basically the same, so this is not rocket science! Try these out gently on yourself:

1. Touch your ear with your fingertips, your thumb is perfectly measured to go into your eye. It works if you touch the ear with the thumb, too.
2. Touch your chin with your thumb and your fingers perfectly reach your eye.
3. Touch the hairline with your fingers and your thumb reaches your eye.

Now, visualize how you might have to do this to push an attacker off of you, away from you when pinned against the wall, reaching over your shoulder with him in the back seat of your car, etc. This is a very valuable low-maintenance tool with which you have been provided. I doubt that anyone reading this thread will ever forget the versatility of this weapon, and they carry two of them with them at all times!

Here's a few photos of the "landmark" eye strikes:

IMG_0165.JPG

IMG_0166.JPG

IMG_0168.JPG

Finally, a technique that has been used in many movies, the "double":

IMG_0167.JPG


The use of an eye attack is relatively low-motor-skill and extremely effective. It can buy you time to run away or to continue the fight by striking the opponent while he is reacting to the eye threat. It's beyond the scope of this thread to go into all the follow-up techniques, etc. The purpose here was to develop a seamless plan that begins with the friendly, genuine interest in being left alone by a stranger. By having a rehearsed plan that governs verbal exchange, movement, self-protection through the fence, and transitions smoothly to physical tactics at last resort, we don't leave much opportunity for the bad guy to take advantage of our naivety. This plan has kept thousands of folks safe during potentially-violent encounters, and allowed many to dominate encounters that actually became physical.

I'll be happy to answer questions. I hope this material gave the membership a better perspective on handling strangers and formed the beginning of self-confidence to that purpose.

Lee
 

flez007

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Lee - you mentioned earlier about the possibility to face this kind of situations with family members, is it better from your opinion to ask them to stay away while one tries to further develop this tactic, ot stand by?
 

flez007

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One other thing...I suppose this attack calls for having the left leg in front if one is right handed right?
 

RBFC

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Lee - you mentioned earlier about the possibility to face this kind of situations with family members, is it better from your opinion to ask them to stay away while one tries to further develop this tactic, ot stand by?

Excellent question! the answer is: it depends. Some of our clients have worked on "team tactics", with both contributing to a plan of action. This can be "you move the kids toward safety, and make sure I stay between you and the bad guy" or it can be "I'll stay in front of him and you come in from the side and kick him in the knee" The response will depend upon the level of training and confidence you both possess, and the "need" inspired by the situation.

A highly-regarded martial artist named Tony Blauer once said, "If you came home and I had your daughter tied up on the kitchen table as I was taking my pants off, how much martial arts would you need to know?" The rage and immediacy of this type of situation has caused thousands of people to act in vicious self-defense. The element of moral commitment cannot be underestimated! We often read stories about the little old lady who fended off the bad guy.... it's the same outrage that fuels us once we've decided to act.

Lee
 

RBFC

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One other thing...I suppose this attack calls for having the left leg in front if one is right handed right?

The simplicity of this tactic is that you will perform it naturally. It's common in traditional martial arts thought to be concerned with stance, etc. Very few REAL fights look anything like what we see in the movies, rather they look like two wild dogs entangled in a chaotic mess.

Your reach will be enhanced if you have the same leg forward as the hand you use to strike. This point is valuable for smaller-statured individuals, including women. It allows them to amplify their reach against a larger attacker. I'll put up a few more photo tutorials that demonstrate "smaller vs. larger" later today.

Lee
 

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