What would you do?

Johnny Vinyl · Apr 24, 2013

I have an RB250 tonearm with an Ortofon 2M Black MM cartridge, and Pete Riggle Heavy Counterweight on my Nottingham Horizon SE turntable. I use the built-in phono section of a PS Audio 4.6 preamp. I like what I'm hearing and can't say I'm unhappy, but I would like to upgrade its performance. I've heard many say that a tonearm upgrade is the way to go, and others say it's a dedicated phonostage.

I would like to upgrade one or the other in the next 12 months, and am looking for some opinions as to what you feel is the better route. My budget for this would be between $1,500-$2,000 and I'm not unopposed to buying gently used. Actually, my entire system came from the gently used market and I've had good results.

I've sent several emails to Nottingham about tonearm upgrades, but have never heard back from. With this kind of CS I can assure you that my next TT will not be a Nottingham, but that's besides the point for now. I am not looking for you guys to do my homework, but I am looking for your expert opinions on this.

Regarding tonearm upgrades, I know I can get something from OriginLive or AudioMods as they make RB250 mods, but are there any other non-RB250 type arms I can use? Perhaps someone with a Nottingham can provide some input about what works on these TT's.

As usual, thank you in advance for your input as I always consider your opinions.

andi · Apr 24, 2013

Hi John,

what would I do ?

I would keep the record player and the tonearm. But......

- would spend better tonearmcables (Cardas for example) from cartridge to amp
- would try to get some phonostages (tubed?) for evaluation in your system to find the best for you

BG

Andreas

Johnny Vinyl · Apr 24, 2013

andi said:
Hi John,

what would I do ?

I would keep the record player and the tonearm. But......

- would spend better tonearmcables (Cardas for example) from cartridge to amp
- would try to get some phonostages (tubed?) for evaluation in your system to find the best for you

BG

Andreas

Hello Andreas, and thank you for your input.

So a tonearm rewiring should be considered then? I like that idea and will make some inquiries as to cost. If I were to get a dedicated phonostage I'd really like it to be a tube unit. I know what I'd like, but it may be a little more than I'm willing to spend, although I could get lucky on the used market. I've always liked the Fosgate Signature V2, and would be a nice addition. First though, I'd need to find a dealer to audition one or perhaps listen to one at a show. It's a dream though and probably not in the cards.

Is the RB250 a good enough arm with a rewiring upgrade? Any experience with it?

mep · Apr 24, 2013

John-Honestly, I wouldn't spend any money on upgrading the RB-250 arm. I would sell it and get as much money as I could for it and apply it with the other money you plan on budgeting towards a better arm. The RB-250 is a nice little arm, but it sits pretty much at the bottom of the Rega line. Rega takes great pains with adjusting the bearings in their arms and you take a chance on some mod person dicking the bearings up in order to install some magic wiring. Rega has reported on those types of horror stories before. If you like the sound of Rega arms, why not buy a Rega arm that is higher up on their food chain that has been well taken care of by the original owner and comes with the original box and everything the arm originally came with? You could buy a brand new RB-1000 for what you are currently budgeting let alone a used Rega arm.

Another option to consider if you are happy with the RB-250/Ortofon combo is to buy the Manley Chinook phono stage that sells used for around $1800 or $2250 brand new. I heard the Chinook at one of the audio shows and was very impressed with it.

Johnny Vinyl · Apr 24, 2013

mep said:
John-Honestly, I wouldn't spend any money on upgrading the RB-250 arm. I would sell it and get as much money as I could for it and apply it with the other money you plan on budgeting towards a better arm. The RB-250 is a nice little arm, but it sits pretty much at the bottom of the Rega line. Rega takes great pains with adjusting the bearings in their arms and you take a chance on some mod person dicking the bearings up in order to install some magic wiring. Rega has reported on those types of horror stories before. If you like the sound of Rega arms, why not buy a Rega arm that is higher up on their food chain that has been well taken care of by the original owner and comes with the original box and everything the arm originally came with? You could buy a brand new RB-1000 for what you are currently budgeting let alone a used Rega arm.

Another option to consider if you are happy with the RB-250/Ortofon combo is to buy the Manley Chinook phono stage that sells used for around $1800 or $2250 brand new. I heard the Chinook at one of the audio shows and was very impressed with it.

Hi Mark - Thanks for your usual straightforwardness, which by me is always appreciated. I'm not married to Rega arms at all, but getting something like a RB1000 is a good suggestion and one worthy of consideration. I know the RB250 is a bottom-feeder, hence my interest in moving up the ladder.

But what upgrade would you do? Arm or preamp? I can only do one.

mep · Apr 25, 2013

John,
I wish I could tell you definitively that your Rega arm is better than your preamp, but I can't. It may well be, but I'm not sure. Once upon a very long time ago I owned a PS Audio 4H preamp that I bought brand new so I know their "old" sound a little bit. I don't think the PS Audio 4.6 preamp is a world beater, but I certainly could be wrong. I'm pretty sure that the Yamaha C2a preamp that I have previously raved about would be an upgrade over the PS Audio preamp. The phono section alone was much better to my ears than the ARC PH-3SE phono stage which was $2495 when new. The C2a is somewhat rare on the used market, but they usually sell for around $350 or so which is a super steal when you hear the sound quality compared to much more expensive gear. And yes, it has two sets of main outputs so you can use a pair of stereo subs when that time arrives.

If it was my money, I would probably look to upgrade the preamp and the tonearm at the same time. The Yamaha C2a is just killer if you can find one and it would allow you enough money left over to buy a Rega RB-700 tonearm which should be another significant upgrade over what you have. Another option is to take your available money and buy a used SME V tonearm, but I'm not sure that based on your current table/arm/cartridge/preamp that you would feel like you had a significant upgrade to your system.

garylkoh · Apr 25, 2013

John,
problem is that I don't know the performance of the phono stage in your preamp. However, following the adage "garbage in, garbage out" you won't know that the phono stage is the bottleneck until you upgrade your tonearm. On the other hand, upgrading the phono stage may result in positively hearing that the tonearm needs an upgrade.

I would go up the Rega line - primarily because your turntable is already properly drilled (I would assume) for the correct geometry. Personally, I would be very scared going to a used tonearm because there is no way to know how much abuse the bearings have had. There would be no visual indications, and no way to test it.

One of the best budget arms I know is the Roksan Tabriz Zi (virtually unknown in the US). It was designed by my friend, Touraj, but he is no longer associated with the company. That would be at the low end of your budget. I've owned a couple of RB300's and the RB1000, and I think that the Tabriz is quite a bit better than the RB1000 at half the price. The Zi version of the Tabriz is far better than the standard version...... but I think that you can easily upgrade from the standard version when funds come available.

mep · Apr 25, 2013

John-I think you should take Gary's advice very seriously. If Gary thinks the Tabriz is quite a bit better than the RB-1000 at half the price, that would leave you money left over to upgrade your preamp.

Johnny Vinyl · Apr 26, 2013

Sound advise here guys...I appreciate the input. I will check into the Tabriz and Tabriz Zi. I just need to verify first if I can mount it on my Nottingham. I'm going to ask ptplayers if he can get me some pricing from his dealer as he has a Xerxes.20plus, with maybe(?) the same arm.

andi · Apr 26, 2013

Hi again,

I am aware that the Rega 250 is a basic tonearm. But it gets much better with better cables. Ok, you have to find a reliable person to do this.
I use a rewired RB250.
My Origin Live Conqueror or SME IV are much better. No question.
My intention was to save as much money as possible for a phonostage.

On the other hand, I like the Tabriz too. Very good arm.

BR
Andreas

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What would you do?

Johnny Vinyl

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andi

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