You dog you !!! I bet you can stack components on them, like phono stage and main Pre gain stages on one shelf, perhaps with each component separated by stillpoint ultra SS's.
Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.
- Thread starter rockitman
- Start date
You dog you !!! I bet you can stack components on them, like phono stage and main Pre gain stages on one shelf, perhaps with each component separated by stillpoint ultra SS's.
Same here! ...Furthermore, it is by bringing other devices (comparison) that you learn more on the product directly related to this thread.
Wow, I just came back in the mansion after cutting the grass and watering the trees and flowers, and I'm reading this!
Way to go Mike! :b
I'm looking forward to Mikey's opinion of active isolation on components other than turntables. From my experience with stillpoints, the greatest improvement for me happened with the power amps. Phono stage was next, followed by the main Pre amp.
Well, it IS pain when you're trying to afford the perfect pair of SET monoblocks AND POSSIBLY active isolation. How misguided I was thinking my last purchase (Soundsmith Straingauge cart) was going to be my last. What I find interesting is that NO passive racks I had auditioned ever made any significant improvement over my previous low tech rack...UNTIL i tried the Symposium Isis. I can't gauge if this means that isolation is or isn't an issue in my room (if it is, how come no other racks like the Grand Prix Monaco sold themselves?). Power, however, was another matter, with every upgrade (basic mains to dedicated spur to audiophile conditioner to overkill balanced power to addition of dedicated component grounding) proving a significant improvement.
I live in a rock solid 1930s reinforced concrete industrial loft apartment building with solid floors which is a pretty inert listening environment, no listing/yawing I think, 3 floors up. Even when a new housing estate was being built opposite over a couple of years, I detected no subsonic feedback in my system from piling, hammering, drilling etc. I also do most of my listening during the day when neighbours are out. So I've got a reasonable chance that environmental subsonic noise is not the major issue it could be. Hence, at the trial of active isolation, I will be gobsmacked if one of these shelves demonstrates subsonics are major issues by eliminating them well beyond what the Symposium does. Possibly movement in floors could be an issue (suspended timber over concrete substructure)
Price is a major issue, and the tenor of what Mike and Christian are suggesting is that ALL components could benefit massively, not just source components. I can just forsee stretching to isolating my tt and cd, but NO way could I afford shelves for psu's, preamp, 2 monoblocks, balanced transformer, grounding box etc. Passive Symposium has been delightfully beneficial, but even that was a stretch financially.
Mike, PLEASE let us know of your experience putting a Herzan under the cd and/or preamp. If the improvement is commensurate with the NVS, how can you stop yourself not extending shelves to your monoblocks?
I live in a rock solid 1930s reinforced concrete industrial loft apartment building with solid floors which is a pretty inert listening environment, no listing/yawing I think, 3 floors up. Even when a new housing estate was being built opposite over a couple of years, I detected no subsonic feedback in my system from piling, hammering, drilling etc. I also do most of my listening during the day when neighbours are out. So I've got a reasonable chance that environmental subsonic noise is not the major issue it could be. Hence, at the trial of active isolation, I will be gobsmacked if one of these shelves demonstrates subsonics are major issues by eliminating them well beyond what the Symposium does. Possibly movement in floors could be an issue (suspended timber over concrete substructure)
Price is a major issue, and the tenor of what Mike and Christian are suggesting is that ALL components could benefit massively, not just source components. I can just forsee stretching to isolating my tt and cd, but NO way could I afford shelves for psu's, preamp, 2 monoblocks, balanced transformer, grounding box etc. Passive Symposium has been delightfully beneficial, but even that was a stretch financially.
Mike, PLEASE let us know of your experience putting a Herzan under the cd and/or preamp. If the improvement is commensurate with the NVS, how can you stop yourself not extending shelves to your monoblocks?
Maybe not originally, however Halcyonic / Silencer advertise that their's is for audio components and have a 10 page pdf doc on it - see link. They are clearly looking to an untapped market
http://www.accurion.com/Silencer
http://www.silencer-audio.de/download/100319_Silencer_EN.pdf
I will throw myself on the grenade and humbly offer to go over to Mike's and see if the Herzans really make a difference. Once again, completely altruistic on my part
I will throw myself on the grenade and humbly offer to go over to Mike's and see if the Herzans really make a difference. Once again, completely altruistic on my part
thanks Jazz, I knew I could count on you when the going got tough. when I know the eta i'll get in touch.
Mike, if I have to come to your place to confirm what everything you've already said and discovered, then I'll invest my time and money just for the sake of it.
But I trust that you trust me when I''m saying that I have full trust in what you're saying. ...Anything else is pure fun. :b
But I trust that you trust me when I''m saying that I have full trust in what you're saying. ...Anything else is pure fun. :b
$10k.
mine will arrive tomorrow. looking forward to seeing how far it will take things.
with my NVS turntable the 'cable effect' on the degree of isolation was neglidgable. no heavy stiff cables were involved. some lightweight umbilicals to the power supply and some phono cables is all.
my preamp has some stiff cables attached (the pre-to-amp and PD to pre Evolution BNC's particularly) so we'll see how i will have to somehow 'float' those a bit to optimize the performance.
on the Playback Designs digital i do have some stiff Evolution BNC's also to the pre.
the cable effect might not be a big deal in performance but i won't know until i investigate.
i have not had to worry about floating cables to optimize isolation since i used Aurios 10 years ago.
Cable effect ? Are you saying that If the Cable, say from the tonearm touches the TS 140, you need to float them ? How do you do that ? Strings attached to the ceiling ?
I'm thinking of doing my amps first with 150's, since I found with stillpoints, using them under the amps provided the greatest bang in sound improvement vs my phono and main Pre.
cable managment is explained by Herzan here;
http://www.herzan.com/resources/tutorials/cable-management.html
although Herzan does not really cover the whole 'cable effect' issue in their tutorial. besides 'parasitic noise' the bigger issue to me is that a stiff cable will dampen the isolation shelf's ability to respond and lower the degree of isolation....'hence' floating the cables (as you mention) as opposed to the Herzan recommendation of using weight to dampen them.
as far as 'how to float the cables' there are a few different approaches. and yes, strings from the ceiling is one of them. typically all you need to do is 'un-weight' them in some way....such as place something flexible underneath the cables on rollers, or maybe build a little stiff wire cage and suspend the cables on bungees. you don't need alot of float, just enough so it allows the gear to be able to have play on top of the shelf. but if the cables are really stiff and un-yeilding don't bother with a Herzan shelf as it will be compromised.
for my 7.5 meter heavy Evolution Cables between my pre and amp i will simply need to raise those cables up high enough so there is some give between that high point and where they attach to the pre so the 'weight' of the cables is not too much on the preamp.
since my dart preamp is around 50 pounds cables will not have as much effect on it on the Herzan as a lighter piece of gear.
in any case, whatever it takes to remove the negative effect of cables as much as possible.
at least my power cords are not an issue as they are the Absolute Fidelity that are light and flexible.
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as far as your amps, you might consider the AVI series instead of the TS series.
http://www.herzan.com/products/active-vibration-control/avi-series.html
you can get 2 AVI 200M modules with a controller which has a 660 pound capacity, and then buy a granite shelf that will fit both your amps for half the cost of 2 TS-150's. talk to Reid about it. i investigated it for my 458's. it 'only' attenuates to 1 hz, but otherwise has the same performance, and you don't need leveling or the LCD screen for amps.
That looks like a cumbersome solution space wise. I have Adona zero GXT amp stands. The TS 150 dimensions are perfect for the spacing of the feet on the amps and fit perfectly on the stands. I guess you need to pay for neat and tidy.
put the amps on the floor where god intended them to be.
save $10k
then sell the nice amp stands.
and then when you change amps (and you will), worst case is you get a different granite shelf. you don't want to choose amps based on the footprint of your TS-150.
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