Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.

spiritofmusic · Mar 16, 2017

In the process of setting up active Herzan TS-150 v passive Minus K BM-8 a/b re tt isoln
Trying to do this w a trusted friend off these forums whose ears and judgement I trust v much
He had been quite skeptical of my previous room and system, and told me so at the time, but my system there evolved significantly for him w changes I'd made to a point he felt I was getting a pretty reasonable sound
Now I have a radical new room and some isoln I'd love his take on

microstrip · Mar 16, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
In the process of setting up active Herzan TS-150 v passive Minus K BM-8 (...)

Do you know if the Minus K BM-8 is distributed in Europe?

spiritofmusic · Mar 16, 2017

It certainly is in the UK
SN Tech, not 5 miles from me
Hence the reasonable ease of this demo

inputusernamehere · Aug 4, 2017

Hi All, great thread! As I read it, most suggest that isolation works best closest to the source (though it can have a favorable impact wherever it's used). But I am using Kii THREE digital active loudspeakers (a moderately sized monitor speaker) (with a Kii CONTROL digital preamp and an ultraRendu streamer w/ LPS-1 ultracap PS). Since, basically, my entire system is built into the speakers (DACs x6, nCore amps x6), I was thinking of getting something like a pair of the Minus Ks for the speakers to hopefully aid in draining the energy from the speaker cabinets (and away from all the electronics therein). Does anyone have experience with isolating speakers with anything like a Minus K platform? I'm interested in active isolation too, but due to cost involved (I just don't have $20k + to drop on platforms at the moment) and the fact that I don't want to have to worry about how to power a brace of active platforms in a way that puts the platform under my speakers but their (likely) noisy power supplies away from the audio electronics, I think that the passive Minus K (or similar) is just a much more plausible solution for my circumstances. But that's just my currently-uninformed view, thoughts, observations, advice, suggestions, etc. are much appreciated!

spiritofmusic · Aug 4, 2017

Input, great username btw!
My two cents.
I couldn't get on w Minus K.
It has to be preloaded to its max load capacity, or it doesn't function.
So, if yr Kii is at this limit, great
But if it's lighter, you MUST make up the shortfall w loading slabs.
In my case, whether I used concrete, granite or Lead, these materials imparted a "flavour" to the sound of supported component (in my case, tt) that was wholly unwanted.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case w the Kii as well
If load limit coincides w Kii weight, then worth investigating.
If not, hmm...
It appears there are no issues re putting Herzan under amps, digital, Mike Lavigne does just this.
Input, my vote is for Stacore Advanced passive platforms.
In a three way shootout, Stacore trounced the Minus K and comfortably beat the Herzan-like Kuraka active, at a price point midway btwn the two.
A really stellar performer.
Also, will yr spkrs be at the right height?
Most spkrs need to sit at a particular height, will the Minus K achieve this?
I believe this is the pivotal reason no one has yet gone to platforms under spkrs.

inputusernamehere · Aug 4, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Also, will yr spkrs be at the right height?
Most spkrs need to sit at a particular height, will the Minus K achieve this?
I believe this is the pivotal reason no one has yet gone to platforms under spkrs.

A good question--and a good point. As I said in response to your note on the other thread (just in case anyone on this thread is interested), I have my Kii THREEs on my desktop on Ardan desktop stands (I listen in the very near-field). My plan had been to pull the speakers off my desk and place them on some adjustable-height Sound Anchor monitor stands and then to place the Minus Ks on top of those; the vertical adjustment would allow me to experiment until I got the height just right (interestingly, the Kii THREEs sound massively better with the mids at ear height, rather than the tweets, like most speakers). A reasonable plan with the Minus K but, and again as I replied on the other thread, the 200 lb + weight of the Stacore would probably make the adjustable stands a non-starter. Thanks for the info. and the reply!

spiritofmusic · Aug 5, 2017

My pleasure, Input.
Happy to help out w any future inquiries from you.
Feel free to PM me if you want.

murphys33 · Aug 6, 2017

I have my speakers on symposium ultra platforms and they work very well. I am also keen to try active platforms beneath the speakers. The stacore and new taiko platforms are also being considered. My only reservations about the stacore was that spirit shared a observation that the soundstage went backwards and that is not my preference.

spiritofmusic · Aug 6, 2017

Murphys, I don't think that was my intention if I said it.
What were my words?
No, soundstage opens up nicely w the Stacore, more than the active Kuraka.
If there is a major contrast, it's that where you would think the active Kuraka would be better at dealing w bass bloat, indeed the Stacore is better here.
But the effect of stripping the upper bass of colouration and maxxing accuracy is a possibility of maybe being too stark in an overly thin system or harsh, pinched room.
However, like all really excellent revealers of the truth, the Stacore effect I believe is much more accurate and authentic, and now I wouldn't be w'out it.

inputusernamehere · Aug 6, 2017

murphys33 said:
I have my speakers on symposium ultra platforms and they work very well. I am also keen to try active platforms beneath the speakers. The stacore and new taiko platforms are also being considered. My only reservations about the stacore was that spirit shared a observation that the soundstage went backwards and that is not my preference.

Interesting. Thanks for the reply. BTW, it's not as though my Arden desktop stands don't offer some isolation, just not as much as might be possible form some more "extreme" solutions, I think. Thanks again for the reply!

Kingsrule · Sep 9, 2017

Hi
I'm just setting up a TS140 and I'm getting a "Height Adjust Error" after I turn it on and the motors stop making noise.

Its Sat so Herzan closed. Hopefully one of u Herzan users can help

Any ideas?

Mike Lavigne · Sep 9, 2017

Kingsrule said:
Hi
I'm just setting up a TS140 and I'm getting a "Height Adjust Error" after I turn it on and the motors stop making noise.

Its Sat so Herzan closed. Hopefully one of u Herzan users can help

Any ideas?

never had that notice on either of my Herzan's.

one thing to check would be if you have adjusted the bottom corner knob to make sure that the TS-140 is solid and does not rock back and forth on your shelf/table. it's possible the sensors are detecting an unstable base.

i'm just guessing. that notice seems more to point to a top shelf adjustment of some sort.

rockitman · Sep 9, 2017

Kingsrule said:
Hi
I'm just setting up a TS140 and I'm getting a "Height Adjust Error" after I turn it on and the motors stop making noise.

Its Sat so Herzan closed. Hopefully one of u Herzan users can help

Any ideas?

Make sure the unit is unlocked. When it is shipped in the locked position, sometimes it gets stuck. Try pushing the top plate from side to side, fore and aft when you turn it on to see if it's stuck and unsticks. I had the same issue. Make sure your stand is very stable too.

I will add that if the top plate is stuck and you cannot get it to release from the lock mechanism that holds it down, you will have to send it back. During shipping, the unit is invariably dropped on it's side which can cause the issue. They should resolve the issue by crating it (box strapped to pallet) and shipping freight so it can't be dropped on it's side...more expensive but avoid hassles.

I have gone through this. Stuck once and was able to unstick it, the other...had to go back to herzan.

Kingsrule · Sep 10, 2017

Thanks for the replies guys

The unit unlocks but doesn't seem to float. Besides error above I can't engage active isolation...red led just blinks.

rockitman · Sep 10, 2017

Kingsrule said:
Thanks for the replies guys

The unit unlocks but doesn't seem to float. Besides error above I can't engage active isolation...red led just blinks.

Do you have a concrete floor to put it on ? You may have stand stability issue (even if it's stable to you) or the adjustable foot is not adjusted right on the TS-140. They will ask you to place it on the floor to see if it functions correct there (make sure the unit does not rock via the screw footer adjustment). If it continues to exhibit the same problem while on a solid level floor then there is a problem with the unit.

If it works as it's suppose to on the floor...it could be your stand and or the adjustable foot on the TS-140 is set correct. Ann Scanlan is the Tech person you want to speak with at Herzan. Good luck.

Kingsrule · Sep 10, 2017

Its on a Herzan stand so that better work.....

rockitman · Sep 10, 2017

Kingsrule said:
Its on a Herzan stand so that better work.....

Have you played with adjusting the one foot on the stand ? If the TS140 can rock, even a minute amount, it won't stabilize. Try playing with the adjustable foot. Short of that, speak to Ann and if it goes back, pay the xtra shipping for having the box sent freight via a pallet...That way if can't be dumped on its side possibly damaging it.

murphys33 · Sep 11, 2017

The unit is defective. One or more sensors may not be working and you would need to send it back for repairs. I had this problem before.

Kingsrule · Sep 15, 2017

Update on TS140 I had on loan:

Unit is not defective. It apparently had different springs installed from stock that created a min weight (150lbs) requirement that we didn't know about. So thats were the error comes from.

When we added weight (a lot!) on top of the components it worked. Unit is being restore to stock at Herzan....

microstrip · Sep 15, 2017

Kingsrule said:
Update on TS140 I had on loan:

Unit is not defective. It apparently had different springs installed from stock that created a min weight (150lbs) requirement that we didn't know about. So thats were the error comes from.

When we added weight (a lot!) on top of the components it worked. Unit is being restore to stock at Herzan....

Springs? In an active table?

Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.

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