Great stuff!! I suppose at 575lbs each, the X1s qualify for sub-660lbs. I will look the TS-300 up. Thanks!
Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.
- Thread starter rockitman
- Start date
Great stuff!! I suppose at 575lbs each, the X1s qualify for sub-660lbs. I will look the TS-300 up. Thanks!
Lloyd,
in Europe you want to contact 'Table Stable'.....they are the 'mother' company.
http://www.tablestable.com/en/contact/
'Herzan' is the America's, Australia, Asia distributor.
oh, and Lloyd, the TS-300 is not cheap.
as I recall it's about $15k USD per unit......so $30k the pair.
you can 'almost' buy a nice pair of speaker cables for $30k USD.
as I recall it's about $15k USD per unit......so $30k the pair.
you can 'almost' buy a nice pair of speaker cables for $30k USD.
Thanks!!
oh, and Lloyd, the TS-300 is not cheap.
as I recall it's about $15k USD per unit......so $30k the pair.
you can 'almost' buy a nice pair of speaker cables for $30k USD.
Ouch!
Well...sure was a nice idea while it lasted! Maybe i'll see if they do 2nd hand...or better yet, 5th hand! Makes Stillpoints Ultra 5s look like freebies!
Making some assumptions but assuming the level of commitment to the hobby most of these set ups will be in dedicated listening rooms. Also assuming that a lot of work has been done to optimize the room. That's a lot of investment. It's not a lot more money to essentially sink a couple of these devices into the floor and then just lay the speakers on top. Now that may limit future speaker upgrades but you can always fill in the holes with concrete and move them! Bottom line seems to be that if you can afford the equipment the required infrastructure improvements should be a piece of cake!
the TS-300 stand alone table can handle up to 660 pounds. and it also has self leveling....whereas the AVI series does not. and the TS-300 is fairly low profile, 4.7 inches tall, still workable in terms of height for most speaker systems. the AVI series would be at least 6-8 inches tall which would be a challenge to integrate into a system.
so sitting on a concrete floor the TS-300 (or 300 pound capacity TS-140) would be the ultimate. the top plate can be drilled and tapped to attach the speaker if you desire.
in the back of my mind I've always considered trying one under speakers. my problem is that both my MM7 towers are 750 pounds, and the AVI direction is not quite as elegant in use as the all-in-one TS series.
but there are lots of under 660 pound speakers in rooms with concrete floors that are candidates.[/QUOTE]
the TS-300 stand alone table can handle up to 660 pounds. and it also has self leveling....whereas the AVI series does not. and the TS-300 is fairly low profile, 4.7 inches tall, still workable in terms of height for most speaker systems. the AVI series would be at least 6-8 inches tall which would be a challenge to integrate into a system.
so sitting on a concrete floor the TS-300 (or 300 pound capacity TS-140) would be the ultimate. the top plate can be drilled and tapped to attach the speaker if you desire.
in the back of my mind I've always considered trying one under speakers. my problem is that both my MM7 towers are 750 pounds, and the AVI direction is not quite as elegant in use as the all-in-one TS series.
but there are lots of under 660 pound speakers in rooms with concrete floors that are candidates.[/QUOTE]
great suggestion. it does remove one excuse for those of us on the ground floor and the option to sink those devices.
OTOH to audition the idea does require quite a level of commitment.....and you would need to be damn sure where you wanted your speakers.
and of course, there is always the $30k issue to consider.
but I do have to honestly admit you have my mind thinking about this direction.
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Mike,
While I am spending other people's money, you might want to consider throwing a simple lazy susan/turntable platform below the units so you can adjust to the toe in!
Your other decision as you are using active will be how much cosmetics play into it, i.e. deciding whether to bury an outlet in each hole or just run power cords to the units.
Now if you really want to help the community I would suggest an A/B with some passive units like the Minus K under speakers to see what the differences are
While I am spending other people's money, you might want to consider throwing a simple lazy susan/turntable platform below the units so you can adjust to the toe in!
Your other decision as you are using active will be how much cosmetics play into it, i.e. deciding whether to bury an outlet in each hole or just run power cords to the units.
Now if you really want to help the community I would suggest an A/B with some passive units like the Minus K under speakers to see what the differences are
Mike, the unit I'm going to mention has been discussed by you in the Mola Mola thread by Purite, I'm going for a trial of the Spiers and Robertson active air rolling diaphragm/table, to site my direct rim drive tt/air bearing linear tracking arm..
This company is right there w. Herzan and Accurion, at the forefront of scientific instruments isolation like electron microscopes etc, and the product I'm going to listen to is right at the nexus of the Herzan/Accurion/MinusK/Vibraplane approach. It will be a 30" x 30" shelf sited in a bespoke super-solid steel frame that may allow a second non-isolated layer to site maybe small psu's under the tt. The shelf is actively re-levelled once a day by pneumatic air pump for max 10s, and interestingly will only truly lose performance if it goes weeks w/out repumping. It is good to at least 2Hz isolation. Now this may not QUITE be at the performance of the Herzan/Accurion, but is second only to it, and practically not that far behind.
There are 6 reasons why I'm likely to purchase if the trial goes well.
First, the size, the 18" x18" Accurion i3 was never large enough to site my tt/motor pod, the Spiers at 30" x 30" most certainly is.
Second, the bespoke steel frame makes it a truly self contained unit, whereas the Accurion was always going to be compromised by need to place on my Symposium rack, and placing it on the floor was a no go re practicality.
Third, it's proudly made in the UK at 40% of the price of the Herzan/Accurion.
Fourth, it looks a lot more bulletproof and practical than the Vibraplane w/less chance of leaky air bladders. Tbh, auto inflating for 10s once a day sounds like no trouble.
Fifth, it can support 100kg no problems, and unlike the MinusK, it is not so fussy re need to be near the max load limit, or the finnickety nature of disturbing the MinusK when using the tt.
Sixth, freeing up the top shelf of my Symposium for other stuff actually means I save money by not needing to buy another Isis shelf, eff halving the cost of the Spiers!
At £3k, if it works as well as it promises, and Keith's measurements of it in his room showed it to be poss better performing than the active Accurion i3 he measured (the latter along w/the Herzan costing 2.5x more in the UK, at £7.5k), it may be the best tech/vfm/practical tt support out there.
I'll post more tech details and trial experiences in due course, in the next several weeks.
So, we have a new contender for (near) SOTA isolation I hope, at a more real world price than the Herzan/Accurion.
This company is right there w. Herzan and Accurion, at the forefront of scientific instruments isolation like electron microscopes etc, and the product I'm going to listen to is right at the nexus of the Herzan/Accurion/MinusK/Vibraplane approach. It will be a 30" x 30" shelf sited in a bespoke super-solid steel frame that may allow a second non-isolated layer to site maybe small psu's under the tt. The shelf is actively re-levelled once a day by pneumatic air pump for max 10s, and interestingly will only truly lose performance if it goes weeks w/out repumping. It is good to at least 2Hz isolation. Now this may not QUITE be at the performance of the Herzan/Accurion, but is second only to it, and practically not that far behind.
There are 6 reasons why I'm likely to purchase if the trial goes well.
First, the size, the 18" x18" Accurion i3 was never large enough to site my tt/motor pod, the Spiers at 30" x 30" most certainly is.
Second, the bespoke steel frame makes it a truly self contained unit, whereas the Accurion was always going to be compromised by need to place on my Symposium rack, and placing it on the floor was a no go re practicality.
Third, it's proudly made in the UK at 40% of the price of the Herzan/Accurion.
Fourth, it looks a lot more bulletproof and practical than the Vibraplane w/less chance of leaky air bladders. Tbh, auto inflating for 10s once a day sounds like no trouble.
Fifth, it can support 100kg no problems, and unlike the MinusK, it is not so fussy re need to be near the max load limit, or the finnickety nature of disturbing the MinusK when using the tt.
Sixth, freeing up the top shelf of my Symposium for other stuff actually means I save money by not needing to buy another Isis shelf, eff halving the cost of the Spiers!
At £3k, if it works as well as it promises, and Keith's measurements of it in his room showed it to be poss better performing than the active Accurion i3 he measured (the latter along w/the Herzan costing 2.5x more in the UK, at £7.5k), it may be the best tech/vfm/practical tt support out there.
I'll post more tech details and trial experiences in due course, in the next several weeks.
So, we have a new contender for (near) SOTA isolation I hope, at a more real world price than the Herzan/Accurion.
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Hello Spirit,
What is your final opinion using the Spiers & Roberston under your TT as I know you also tried an Accurion I4 ? Does it worth the price and did you kept it ? What did the SP bought (or not) to your SQ ?
I just read all this very interesting thread and I'm interesting in reading your opinion as the thread is so many pages / posts and so few audiophiles speaking.
JY
What is your final opinion using the Spiers & Roberston under your TT as I know you also tried an Accurion I4 ? Does it worth the price and did you kept it ? What did the SP bought (or not) to your SQ ?
I just read all this very interesting thread and I'm interesting in reading your opinion as the thread is so many pages / posts and so few audiophiles speaking.
JY
Mssr. C, demo hasn't happened yet. I'm struggling a little w/the siting for the Spiers. I have no space to the side of my current rack, and placing it nestled over the rack remains the only option, but necessitating a second support, and I have to be sure there are no stability issues w/going 1.5m high. Additionally I'm considering another linestage, and this would empty the budget for the Spiers.
I'll report as and when.
I'll report as and when.
Mssr. C, the Spiers imho remains maybe the best balance of cost/performance ratio. From what I gather it's an updated, more bulletproof reliable, and cheaper, alternative to the Vibraplane , stomps all over the Minus K at same cost, and gets close to the performance of the active Accurions/Herzans, at a quarter of their price.
If I can figure a way to fit it in, it's a no brainer.
If I can figure a way to fit it in, it's a no brainer.
Thank you. I will ask a quote for my TT. I can't buy everything I would like in the same time and so have to be carefull where to spend my money for the best.
At that time I'm thinking about trying Entreq S. Minimus (2) for the negative speaker output of my mono amps, Shun Mook UDR , or active isolation device.
At that time I'm thinking about trying Entreq S. Minimus (2) for the negative speaker output of my mono amps, Shun Mook UDR , or active isolation device.
At the Munich High-End Show 2016 i saw the Kuzma Zerovibe 6050P active isolation platform - The nice guy from kuzma told me that they cooperate with a swiss company, i think it could be a Herzan TS-140 under the hood: http://www.kuzma.si/zerovibe-6050p.html
Yep, and they were charging 20-25% more than if you bought the platform factory direct from Herzan. This is one area where it's definitely not worth paying the tt co.'s mark up.
I'm still happy with the Table Stable TS-140. The TT just sounds better with than without.
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