Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.

rockitman · Sep 15, 2017

Sorry I forgot about that possibility. My original TS -140 had stock springs which require zero weight preload. My TT was near the limit so I had the heavy duty springs installed which require a minimum weight of 125lbs. When it was delivered I had the same error not realizing the preload requirement....I tested it w/o the TT on it and freaked out. Glad all will be well soon for you.

Kingsrule said:
Update on TS140 I had on loan:

Unit is not defective. It apparently had different springs installed from stock that created a min weight (150lbs) requirement that we didn't know about. So thats were the error comes from.

When we added weight (a lot!) on top of the components it worked. Unit is being restore to stock at Herzan....

Kingsrule · Sep 18, 2017

Well its back with stock springs...I have my dCS Vivaldi DAC and Upsampler stacked on top of each other on the TS140 (both pieces with 3 feet on them). I'm still trying to assimilate what I'm hearing but its very much improved. I'm sure changing the supports under each piece will bring even more changes....

BTW, do u guys leave the display on the Herzan on or off?

rockitman · Sep 18, 2017

Kingsrule said:
Well its back with stock springs...I have my dCS Vivaldi DAC and Upsampler stacked on top of each other on the TS140 (both pieces with 3 feet on them). I'm still trying to assimilate what I'm hearing but its very much improved. I'm sure changing the supports under each piece will bring even more changes....

BTW, do u guys live the display on the Herzan on or off?

On

Mike Lavigne · Sep 18, 2017

rockitman said:
On

same.

shakti · Sep 18, 2017

having tried the Taiko Tana version of the table stable TS140, I like to share the experience, that the TS140 is very sensitive on external grounding.
I connected my active Grounding units (Telos or Taiko Setchi) to the BNC diagnostic ground, the effect was great.

Using the TS 140 under my turntable gave me a little increase in noise floor, which disappeared, switching the TS 140 off.

So I tried the Grounding. The noise floor disappeared, which was nice, but I was surprised, that the sound quality was increasing as well.

My recommendation to all TS140 users is, to try an additional ground on the TS 140, you may have the same sonic benefit .

EuroDriver · Sep 18, 2017

shakti said:
having tried the Taiko Tana version of the table stable TS140, I like to share the experience, that the TS140 is very sensitive on external grounding.
I connected my active Grounding units (Telos or Taiko Setchi) to the BNC diagnostic ground, the effect was great.

Using the TS 140 under my turntable gave me a little increase in noise floor, which disappeared, switching the TS 140 off.

So I tried the Grounding. The noise floor disappeared, which was nice, but I was surprised, that the sound quality was increasing as well.

My recommendation to all TS140 users is, to try an additional ground on the TS 140, you may have the same sonic benefit .

The Taiko Tana that Shakti has been playing with is an initial prototype that was used at Munich High End and has the stock SMPS. I took this unit to Switzerland last week to have the SMPS removed

We have tested the TS-150 with and without SMPS, side by side and the SQ sound difference is big.

Connect a Setchi to the BNC on the TS-140 / TS-150 and the performance rises to another level. We are going to have these LPS powered and Setchi enhanced Tana's at the X-Fi show in Veldhoven in Holland at the end of the month. The audience reaction to active anti vibration on and off with this new development is going to be interesting !

Also worth noting that the Tana 20 mm aluminium and Panzerholz top plate sounds significantly more musical than the stock 6 mm plate

CKKeung · Oct 2, 2017

EuroDriver said:
The Taiko Tana that Shakti has been playing with is an initial prototype that was used at Munich High End and has the stock SMPS. I took this unit to Switzerland last week to have the SMPS removed
We have tested the TS-150 with and without SMPS, side by side and the SQ sound difference is big.
Connect a Setchi to the BNC on the TS-140 / TS-150 and the performance rises to another level. We are going to have these LPS powered and Setchi enhanced Tana's at the X-Fi show in Veldhoven in Holland at the end of the month. The audience reaction to active anti vibration on and off with this new development is going to be interesting !
Also worth noting that the Tana 20 mm aluminium and Panzerholz top plate sounds significantly more musical than the stock 6 mm plate

Hello Edward,
Thanks for the interesting info!
May I know when will the Taiko Tana be available at your dealers?
Thanks again!
CK

EuroDriver · Oct 3, 2017

CKKeung said:
Hello Edward,
Thanks for the interesting info!
May I know when will the Taiko Tana be available at your dealers?
Thanks again!
CK

Hi CK,

The Tana is available to order, the lead time from Switzerland is about a month

We had 3 Tana's all powered by LPS's and the sound we achieved at X-Fi was very significantly better than at Munich High End. What is interesting is that the sound we achieved with the same speakers and power amps we used at X-Fi last year was so much better this year. A combination of
- improved SGM OS
- HQ Player Polysinc XTR filter
- Active anti -vibration powered by LPS's
- a total of 6 Setchi's connected to SGM, DAC, and Tana's

The DAC we used was a copper topped and bottom plate fitted T+A. The difference the copper plates make to the sound, is very comparable to the sound difference between the Lampi b7 and GG. We understand where Dan D'Agostino is coming from ! A lot of copper in the chassis delivers a tonality in brass instruments and voices that is rich in emotions

Ron Resnick · Oct 3, 2017

I think the panzerholz top plate is interesting. Why did you decide to use aluminum rather than steel with the panzerholz?

CKKeung · Oct 3, 2017

EuroDriver said:
Hi CK,
The Tana is available to order, the lead time from Switzerland is about a month
We had 3 Tana's all powered by LPS's and the sound we achieved at X-Fi was very significantly better than at Munich High End. What is interesting is that the sound we achieved with the same speakers and power amps we used at X-Fi last year was so much better this year. A combination of
- improved SGM OS
- HQ Player Polysinc XTR filter
- Active anti -vibration powered by LPS's
- a total of 6 Setchi's connected to SGM, DAC, and Tana's
The DAC we used was a copper topped and bottom plate fitted T+A. The difference the copper plates make to the sound, is very comparable to the sound difference between the Lampi b7 and GG. We understand where Dan D'Agostino is coming from ! A lot of copper in the chassis delivers a tonality in brass instruments and voices that is rich in emotions

Hello Edward,
Yes, why combining panzerholz with aluminum? Steel or titanium tested too?

BTW is Tana's linear psu internal or external?
Any photos of Tana to share? We are curious of the look of the proprietary top plate.

Many thanks again!

CK

EuroDriver · Oct 4, 2017

CKKeung said:
Hello Edward,
Yes, why combining panzerholz with aluminum? Steel or titanium tested too?

BTW is Tana's linear psu internal or external?
Any photos of Tana to share? We are curious of the look of the proprietary top plate.

Many thanks again!

CK

Ron and CK,

The materials we favor for chassis construction are copper and aluminum. We are not a fan of steel enclosures. Titanium, is extremely difficult to machine, and so is a non starter for us.

We did try several combinations of aluminium with copper and copper composite, but aluminium with panzerholz was the easy winner on sonics (but not on appearance). What's interesting is that different thicknesses of Panzerholz makes a difference too.

The linear power supply is external, and it turns out that the characteristics of the various different linear supplies has quite an influence on the sonics of the system

There was also a big surprise when we discovered that grounding devices connected to the platform make a big impact on the sound of as reported and confirmed by Shakti.

I don't have a picture of the production top plate panzerholz and aluminium sandwich, as it is at the factory in Switzerland where it is being joined and assembled to the cast aluminum chassis and electronics

Photos will come when I visit the factory to pick up the unit

CKKeung · Oct 4, 2017

EuroDriver said:
Ron and CK,
The materials we favor for chassis construction are copper and aluminum. We are not a fan of steel enclosures. Titanium, is extremely difficult to machine, and so is a non starter for us.
We did try several combinations of aluminium with copper and copper composite, but aluminium with panzerholz was the easy winner on sonics (but not on appearance). What's interesting is that different thicknesses of Panzerholz makes a difference too.
The linear power supply is external, and it turns out that the characteristics of the various different linear supplies has quite an influence on the sonics of the system
There was also a big surprise when we discovered that grounding devices connected to the platform make a big impact on the sound of as reported and confirmed by Shakti.
I don't have a picture of the production top plate panzerholz and aluminium sandwich, as it is at the factory in Switzerland where it is being joined and assembled to the cast aluminum chassis and electronics
Photos will come when I visit the factory to pick up the unit

Hello Edward,
Thanks for the info! You are always so helpful!
CK

Ron Resnick · Oct 4, 2017

Yes, thank you, Edward!

microstrip · Oct 4, 2017

EuroDriver said:
(...) There was also a big surprise when we discovered that grounding devices connected to the platform make a big impact on the sound of as reported and confirmed by Shakti. (...)

Since you are addressing grounding devices can you tell us what is behind the Setchi D1 and D2? Do they use the batteries just for polarization or also for driving active circuits?

EuroDriver · Nov 2, 2017

microstrip said:
Since you are addressing grounding devices can you tell us what is behind the Setchi D1 and D2? Do they use the batteries just for polarization or also for driving active circuits?

I think this has been answered in other threads, but just to post here for completeness. The Setchi’s generate a vibration modulated voltage with a bias provided by the onboard battery

EuroDriver · Nov 2, 2017

Here is a picture of the first production Taiko Tana, with the LPS next to it.

The LPS is a dual choke design using Schottky rectifiers, a Belleson regulator and a lot of hard to get Mundorf caps. The chassis bottom is solid copper, the housing has been machined from three 40 mm layers of Panzerholz. It’s a close as we can get to having a Panzerholz monocoque.

The sonic difference between this LPS and a very well respected LPS from Asia which has a cast aluminium chassis for this application has left us a bit speechless.

We have never heard this level of bass definition, sonic texture across a broad frequency spectrum, clarity and transparency. How this will sound in other systems we will find out over the coming weeks.

The DAC in the picture is a limited edition tweaked T+A DAC 8 DSD. The top and bottom covers are Copper with multiple curved channels CNC machined on the inside and sandwiched with Panzerholz

The Preamp is our beloved Bespoke TVC, which is sitting on a prototype Tana

The most vibration sensitive piece of gear is the DAC, then the Bespoke

We also find all tube gear to be very vibration sensitive as well

Mike Lavigne · Nov 2, 2017

i'm excited to get that in my room.

spiritofmusic · Nov 6, 2017

How about this for a series of Russian Dolls...
Surely the LPS of the Tana being an electronic device would benefit from IT’S OWN Tana?
And that Tana would have an LPS needing YET ANOTHER Tana...
You can see where this could end up! LOL

Mike Lavigne · Nov 22, 2017

very excited to hear 'just now' that the Taiko Tana with it's Linear Power Supply and Setchi D2 grounding box (see the picture 2 posts above this one) is in route to me and will arrive here on Friday. by Friday night I should be enjoying it's performance in my system. Ed and Emile have done so much work on this product, I consider it a privilege to be able to have it in my system.

I will start out by trying it under the SGM server, then the darTZeel preamp, and then the dac box of the MSB Select II. and see where it makes the most significant contribution.

I've been anticipating this since last winter and I can't wait.

thank you Ed and Emile!!!!

CKKeung · Nov 22, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
very excited to hear 'just now' that the Taiko Tana with it's Linear Power Supply and Setchi D2 grounding box (see the picture 2 posts above this one) is in route to me and will arrive here on Friday. by Friday night I should be enjoying it's performance in my system. Ed and Emile have done so much work on this product, I consider it a privilege to be able to have it in my system.

I will start out by trying it under the SGM server, then the darTZeel preamp, and then the dac box of the MSB Select II. and see where it makes the most significant contribution.

I've been anticipating this since last winter and I can't wait.

thank you Ed and Emile!!!!

These two applications also give significant sonic improvement!

Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.

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