Well that's alot more than a vibraplane setup, then again, it's a fraction of my total system cost. My system is also on a poured concrete slab foundation in the basement. Sounds like the Herzan may be the ticket for me.
HRS M3X Isolation base
- Thread starter rockitman
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Well that's alot more than a vibraplane setup, then again, it's a fraction of my total system cost. My system is also on a poured concrete slab foundation in the basement. Sounds like the Herzan may be the ticket for me.
the Herzan is also 'thinner' than the Halyconics (and much thinner than a vibraplane) so your tt won't be raised as much.
look at the investment as a tt upgrade, which is what it is. compare it to the isolation system of the big Clearaudio Statement, which it (the isolation approach) will outperform when used on top of a proper grounded rack on concrete which is what you and i have.
i owned the Rockport, which uses a system basically just like an Active Vibraplane, and this approach is better for sure.
the only question will be how any specific turntable reacts sonically to total isolation, and that is a question you can only answer by trying it.
My table is a mass loaded non-suspended design. I hope this will be a good match. I would certainly be depressed if it ended up hurting the sound after I bought one....
Not that I'm trying to compare the Stillpoints Ultra 5 with the Herzan but after hearing what the Ultra 5s did for every component in my system, I thought they would be great under my SME! I was dead wrong. Everything turned to mud. I couldn't get them out from under the turntable fast enough.
no reason why you should not get an improvement, but it could be a trade-offs. which would be the same for any isolation product.
Herzan can offer a trial period where you can pay for it up front, try it for a couple of weeks, and return it if it does not give you your money's worth.....with only being out the shipping.
Passive Vibration Isolation: Passive vibration isolation systems consist essentially of a mass, spring and damper (dash-pot). The equipment and gears have joints with surrounding objects (the supporting joint - with the support; the unsupporting joint - the pipe duct or cable)
Active Vibration Isolation: Active vibration isolation systems contain, along with the spring, a feedback circuit which consists of a piezoelectric accelerometer, a controller and an electromagnetic transducer. The acceleration (vibration) signal is processed by a control circuit and amplifier. It then feeds the electromagnetic actuator, which amplifies the signal. As a result of such a feedback system, a considerably stronger suppression of vibrations is achieved compared to ordinary damping.
Passive versus Active Isolation: Passive isolation always exhibits amplification within the resonance and the isolation for higher frequencies decreases because of the viscous damping. Another advantage of an active isolation system compared to a passive stage is the short settling time. The passive system needs a long time to come to rest again. In the case of the active system the vibration decays much faster because the active system reacts with its actuators. The actuators are generating forces which counteract the movement of the isolated mass.
Active isolation systems attempt to cancel out vibration by vibrating a platform 180 degrees out of phase with a measured vibration stimulus. A typical system has three main parts; a passive base, a measurement unit, and 6 axis voice coils/ rotational motors. The passive base attempts to limit the transmission of higher frequency vibration (>200 Hz) through passive means such as air bladders, springs or viscoelastic material. The "active" components are usually only active below 200 Hz. The measurement unit accurately, and hopefully quickly measures the actual vibration of the platform on which a component rests. The measuring unit sends this information to the 6 axis voice coils / motors. The voice coils then vibrate 180 degrees out of phase with the measured vibration. That is, if the platform is moving one direction, they move the opposite way to cancel out the motion. The measuring unit continuously senses the motion of the platform and thus forms a feedback loop with the voice coils / rotational motors. Generally, active isolation systems do a good job at isolating a component from vibrations in the structure it is sitting on. They are used extensively in the electron microscope industry and work particularly well with relatively large amplitude vibration sources such as footfall. They have two significant drawbacks however. First, they do less well at dealing with airborne vibration (such as loudspeaker output) and machine generated vibration (such as motors/transport mechanisms. The reason is the sensor that detects the vibration is in the platform, not in the component. Typically the amplitude of the vibration in a component case is reduced by the time it reaches a sensor leading to erroneous inputs (or no input) to the motors. Second, latency causes unwanted voice coil / rotational motor movement. The system feedback is designed to operate quickly, but by definition, the system can't respond instantaneously. Thus the voice coils will still be moving even after the original vibration has stopped. This ring-down effect slows down the settling time of the system.
Pros:
- Attenuates even very low frequency (1-2 Hz) component vibration while providing a stable base.
Cons:
- High cost, large size, extreme complexity (pneumatics, etc).
- Measurements take place in the platform - not the component, therefore ineffective at attenuating vibration that does not reach the sensor.
- Latency and use of servos is source of noise and ring down effect. Voice coils still moving after vibration has stopped.
Wave Kinetics:
A10-U8 Component Control System:
- Rapid settling time - at least as fast as active systems.
- Does not over-damp
- Impedance mismatch prevents flow from structure to component
- Damping at component side dissipates machine generated vibration and air-born vibration transmitted to case.
- Quiescent state is very rigid due to hexagonal close pack of spherical bearing array
2NS Loudspeaker Interface System:
- Reduces signal to floor - reduces unpredictable floor resonances.
- Cleans up the signal going to the floor- materials sequence filters signal from speakers and insures a very sonically flat frequency response.
More information is available on our website:
http://wavekinetics.com
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I saw that. Not sure how much shipping is, but it's worth it to be out $500.00 should the device not deliver for my table and I return it. I can't seem to find out how much the TS 140 weighs. All they show is load capacity.
I had a similar experience...putting the LP Isolator on the back right corner of the Transport...muddy/worse than no LP Isolator. Placing it on front right...much better than no LP Isolator. I wonder if that is a function of the internal elements of the Transport...or maybe i have not accurately placed the nimbus couplers underneath and thus it is slightly imbalanced? Now that it works so well, not sure i want to keep moving things anymore to find out...
I think they are still in business, but I think there was a management buyout (or someone did anyway).
Cheers
Orb
After reading more, Herzan is the distributor (North America)and they add their name to the faceplate. They are not the manufacturer of the TS 140 Active isolation table. TS = Table Stable. JRS Scientific Instruments/Table Stable Ltd are out of Switzerland. The other surprising factoid is the weight: only 28.5 kg/63 lbs., but holds up to 300 lbs. with no minimum load weight required.
http://www.tablestable.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=2:ts-140&Itemid=61
My other thought about this unit, it comes standard with a machined polished aluminum top. I wonder if the Stainless Steel Top Plate would be better ?
http://www.tablestable.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=2:ts-140&Itemid=61
My other thought about this unit, it comes standard with a machined polished aluminum top. I wonder if the Stainless Steel Top Plate would be better ?
the stainless top is available, but it's around $1500 plus then you cannot 'trial' it (the TS Shelf), you own it. i asked that same question.
personally stainless is preferred to aluminum generally....but aluminum is good, just not as good.
What kept you from getting one or is it still on your Radar ? I am going to chew on it this weekend and make a move or not on Monday.
only one thing.
$$$$'s.
after my recent additions.....MM7's, 458's, a second Telos....the audio piggy bank is broke.
once i sell my ATR-102 then this could happen.
Very interesting; I'll have to read that later. Given that part of the bedrock of the mountain on which I live was blasted out to build my basement, I think I'm off to a good start!
HRS Rack
Does anyone have any experience with Harmonic Resolution Systems racks?
I'm considering one for my system. Checking in to what they can support. I'm concerned about space for my SME 30/12 and motor controller which takes up 27" in width. I would want to get both pieces on one shelf as I have a component for each shelf as things stand right now.
This is the unit I'm considering.
View attachment 9241
Does anyone have any experience with Harmonic Resolution Systems racks?
I'm considering one for my system. Checking in to what they can support. I'm concerned about space for my SME 30/12 and motor controller which takes up 27" in width. I would want to get both pieces on one shelf as I have a component for each shelf as things stand right now.
This is the unit I'm considering.
View attachment 9241
Mike Latvis of HRS is very responsive and can answer any questions you might have...and they will customize to fit specific TT. I thought i had seen a customized version of the unit above you are looking for...which was designed to accommodate a big TT. In fact, it was on AGon for a while.
Hi Mike,
Wondering in what way the TS series are more advanced or better than the Halcyonic devices. I am using various Halcyonic devices and I am very impressed by their performance. For example even my (well built) Scarlatti four box combo sounded at another kevel, let alobe the effect on my various turntables and Komdo m1000 preamp.
Wondering in what way the TS series are more advanced or better than the Halcyonic devices. I am using various Halcyonic devices and I am very impressed by their performance. For example even my (well built) Scarlatti four box combo sounded at another kevel, let alobe the effect on my various turntables and Komdo m1000 preamp.
honestly, i don't personally know the answer to that question and i've not directly compared them. and i've not heard the TS Series.
here is what i have read (a few years ago when i researched this). both the Halcyonics and Stable Table (TS Series) were originally designed by the same people; however, the Stable Table is one generation more advanced. there was some sort of split and so there are 2 competing products from 2 separate manufacturers with essentially the same technology. the TS Series is suppose to isolate a little better.
what i like about the TS Series is that it's quite a bit thinner so more user friendly and i like the way it looks better.....not so visually obtrusive. and with Halcyonics there are 2 types; one with automatic leveling, and one with manual leveling.....which is cheaper and intended and developed for the audiophile market.
so if you are comparing the Herzan TS series to the Halcyonics you need to determine which model of Halcyonics you are comparing.
Thanks Mike. I was not aware of the company split. I am using various Halcyonics automatic leveling devices including the vario series. They work wonders in my system. Therefore I am of the opinion that the rave reviews by several audio reviewers of several Halcyonics units in different parts of the world are correct. That said, I live in a house built in 1902 with a wooden floor that rest on beams, so no concrete fundation. Maybe the Halcyonics are in such an environment more effective than in others. What are your personal experiences with Halcyonic?
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