HRS M3X Isolation base

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Thanks Mike. I was not aware of the company split. I am using various Halcyonics automatic leveling devices including the vario series. They work wonders in my system. Therefore I am of the opinion that the rave reviews by several audio reviewers of several Halcyonics units in different parts of the world are correct. That said, I live in a house built in 1902 with a wooden floor that rest on beams, so no concrete fundation. Maybe the Halcyonics are in such an environment more effective than in others. What are your personal experiences with Halcyonic?

my experience with the Halcyonics was when Will Wright, a Positive Feedback Online reviewer, brought his 'review' unit over to my room back in 2005-2006 i think. this was the Micro 40 with automatic leveling described in this review;

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue29/halcyonics.htm

i was blown away by it. it made all other isolation products seem like toys in comparison. i placed my EMM Labs transport on it and turning it on and off was like focusing a camera lens. it was spooky good.

yet; at that time i was using the Grand Prix Audio Monaco de-coupling racks (on a concrete floor), which were not even close to ideal for optimizing a product like the Micro 40. it really needs a solid base to be fully effective. in your situation with post and beam flooring it would be challenging to approach optimal performance. even so; i don't doubt for a minute your positive perspective on it.

if the rack or floor supporting the rack flexes then the precision of the active isolation gets compromised to some degree.

i'm not sure that there is an audible difference in performance between the Herzan TS series and the Halcyonics Micro series. i don't know the Vario series.
 
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lapaix

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Apr 27, 2012
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Electron microscopy environment

The airborne vibrations is more about quickly converting the energy to heat. I'm not too familiar with the top plate of the vibraplane but if I'm mistaken it is a solid aluminum plate. Aluminum has great damping but it can still ring by iteslf. Usually you want something softer or something hard with a damping layer or a material with specific damping properties like acrylics with particular grains. So far the best I've ever heard use combinations of materials for constrained layer damping same way your table uses aluminum, acrylic and panzerwood which itself is a combination of woods with different densities. Same goes for the best footers like the Stillpoints (aluminum/ceramic), Symposium (aluminum/tungsten), Magico Pods (aluminum/polymer), Walker (Brass/Polymer), RiZE (Aluminum/Polymer/Titanium) etc.

I often see electron microscopes referenced and it is really hard to argue with that so I won't. It just makes me wonder about what the differences are in the environments an electron microscope is used and that of an audio environment. I mean I don't think EMs are used in places where it would be subjected to the levels of airborne vibration like that you would find in a listening room with music playing. Most labs are pretty quiet. The isolation I would assume would be engineered more towards very low frequency seismic and other ground borne vibrations. I have no doubt a vibraplane would do an excellent job. I just wonder if it is as good at audio as it is for what it was originally designed for. I'm not curious enough to find out for myself.
Most labs in which electron microscopes and similar devices are operated are in very noisy environments because the building itself is vibrating like crazy. Isolation devices like air platforms or a passive device such as the one produced by MinusK Technology allow the instrument to sit on a nearly vibration free surface. This is the best possible environment for a turntable.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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So far the best I've ever heard use combinations of materials for constrained layer damping same way your table uses aluminum, acrylic and panzerwood which itself is a combination of woods with different densities. Same goes for the best footers like the Stillpoints (aluminum/ceramic), Symposium (aluminum/tungsten), Magico Pods (aluminum/polymer), Walker (Brass/Polymer), RiZE (Aluminum/Polymer/Titanium) etc.

Hey JackD201 - have you compared Stillpoints Ultra 5s to Magico Pods (both about the same price)...or to any others above you mention? Just curious. Big fan of Stillpoints Ultra 5s!
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Sadly no. Since I already use CLD platforms that work well for me I don't use stand alone products much anymore. An exception would be the odd rollerblock jrs or RiZE (similar to Ultras in construction except the bearing is a different material) pieces for second or third systems. Adding these to the platforms yield no added benefit to my ears so would consider doing so as a waste of resources. Mullard88 swears by Q Pods. I think they do make a difference, most of these do. What is not usually talked about is what they are placed on. Usually we just hear about what they go under. :D I find this makes as big as a difference too.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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my experience with the Halcyonics was when Will Wright, a Positive Feedback Online reviewer, brought his 'review' unit over to my room back in 2005-2006 i think. this was the Micro 40 with automatic leveling described in this review;

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue29/halcyonics.htm



i was blown away by it. it made all other isolation products seem like toys in comparison. i placed my EMM Labs transport on it and turning it on and off was like focusing a camera lens. it was spooky good.

yet; at that time i was using the Grand Prix Audio Monaco de-coupling racks (on a concrete floor), which were not even close to ideal for optimizing a product like the Micro 40. it really needs a solid base to be fully effective. in your situation with post and beam flooring it would be challenging to approach optimal performance. even so; i don't doubt for a minute your positive perspective on it.

if the rack or floor supporting the rack flexes then the precision of the active isolation gets compromised to some degree.

i'm not sure that there is an audible difference in performance between the Herzan TS series and the Halcyonics Micro series. i don't know the Vario series.

That review has pushed me over the edge. Time to call Herzan.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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That review has pushed me over the edge. Time to call Herzan.

I hope to be hearing Halcyonics on a Zanden transport this weekend. I will definitely post on turning it on/off as Mike says. Will be interesting as i use HRS M3 and Nimbus couplers with Stillpoints LPI on top and know the difference they make.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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I hope to be hearing Halcyonics on a Zanden transport this weekend. I will definitely post on turning it on/off as Mike says. Will be interesting as i use HRS M3 and Nimbus couplers with Stillpoints LPI on top and know the difference they make.

Lloyd

Did you hear the Halcyonics?
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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I have thought about it. The compressor in the same room may be problematic. I may be able to punch a hole in the wall and locate the pump on the other side. My only other concern....it's a product designed for scientific use, not for audio. That said, I do like Peter A's setup for his sme

Christian, another strong advocate for Vibraplane is Albert Porter. He has one under his SP10 Mk3 and also under his R2R player. I don't know what else he has tried, but you might want to contact him.

Two years ago I heard a demo in the TTAudio? (YG, Solution, Brinkman) room at the NYC Audio Show. Excellent sound. They had two Brinkmann turntables, the Bardo and the Balance. Each was on a Vibraplane. The dealer told me that they had switched from the HRS platform to the Vibraplanes. This was confirmed later to me by Steve Klein of Sounds of Silence, the Vibraplane distributor.

I think the only way to know for sure is to try them. That might be hard, but if you could borrow an HRS platform (which is portable) and then carry it to a friend (or dealer) who has a Vibraplane, the comparison could be made with some difficulty. I bought a used Townshend Seismic Sink for under my unsuspended SME 10. The improvement was clear. I had read that the Vibraplane was an improvement over the TSS. So I waited for a used one on Audiogon. It was much better that the Sink. The only comparison I made with a passive device was with a Zoethecus shelf platform under my SME 10. The Seismic Sink was much better. The Vibraplane was the best.

Yesterday I heard a demo of three Stillpoint Ultra Vs under a friend's CDP and then under his pair of speakers. For what it is worth, I noticed a much more pronounced difference under the speakers. It was fairly subtle under the source component. People also really like the big Symposium platform under turntables, though I have not tried it.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Lloyd

Did you hear the Halcyonics?

Hey Turntable...i saw the Halcyonics under the Zanden transport...but that system was not on. I did hear several electronic isolation platforms under a DCS Scarlatti stack and watched as the owner touched it...and set off all manner of lights on the automatic sensors which were actively leveling the system in real time. Quite cool. We did not start switching on and off equipment for obvious reasons...but i will say this.

The owner knows his stuff...and is obsessive to a degree of refinement i have not witnessed before...not even at audio exotics and those guys are over the top. The flooring of the room was isolated from each other so the speakers were on one section of the floor...and the equipment what i believe was a separate slab of concrete.

And in the end...the result is all. i have never, repeat never...not even at AE using the same tracks...heard resolution in the mids and treble like this...Rachel Podger Channel Classics violin can sound strident on many systems, have 'zing' on well balanced ones (for my ears) but with a natural tone...and then they can sound positively natural like a violin. The system this weekend was the latter, and i've not heard Rachel Podger's Channel classics sound quite that way on digital before.

So while i can say NOTHING about the Halcyonics...i CAN say the owner swears by the them...and that's good enough for me given what i just heard. he has access to everything...and uses halcyonics.
 

PeterA

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Hey Turntable...i saw the Halcyonics under the Zanden transport...but that system was not on. I did hear several electronic isolation platforms under a DCS Scarlatti stack and watched as the owner touched it...and set off all manner of lights on the automatic sensors which were actively leveling the system in real time. Quite cool. We did not start switching on and off equipment for obvious reasons...but i will say this.

The owner knows his stuff...and is obsessive to a degree of refinement i have not witnessed before...not even at audio exotics and those guys are over the top. The flooring of the room was isolated from each other so the speakers were on one section of the floor...and the equipment what i believe was a separate slab of concrete.

And in the end...the result is all. i have never, repeat never...not even at AE using the same tracks...heard resolution in the mids and treble like this...Rachel Podger Channel Classics violin can sound strident on many systems, have 'zing' on well balanced ones (for my ears) but with a natural tone...and then they can sound positively natural like a violin. The system this weekend was the latter, and i've not heard Rachel Podger's Channel classics sound quite that way on digital before.

So while i can say NOTHING about the Halcyonics...i CAN say the owner swears by the them...and that's good enough for me given what i just heard. he has access to everything...and uses halcyonics.

I must apologize. I wrote my post #68 above having just discovered the thread and not taking the time to read all the way through it. I now have and it is clear that Rockitman, Christian, is moving in another direction from the passive air isolation of the Vibraplane. Perhaps the Vibraplane is better than the passive, sandwich type platforms, but is only merely a good and more cost-effective solution compared to the ultimate active isolation devices. If one's budget allows, then I fully agree that an active system like the Halcyonics is the way to go. It looks like a very serious solution for those who can afford it. I really like Mike Lavigne's comment that what we are really talking about here is akin to a major turntable upgrade - in performance only - while maintaining all of the functionality and aesthetics of our individual turntable choices. And given that, perhaps $10-14K is not all that outrageous.

I'm most anxious to read what Christian decides to buy and what the results are.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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I must apologize. I wrote my post #68 above having just discovered the thread and not taking the time to read all the way through it. I now have and it is clear that Rockitman, Christian, is moving in another direction from the passive air isolation of the Vibraplane. Perhaps the Vibraplane is better than the passive, sandwich type platforms, but is only merely a good and more cost-effective solution compared to the ultimate active isolation devices. If one's budget allows, then I fully agree that an active system like the Halcyonics is the way to go. It looks like a very serious solution for those who can afford it. I really like Mike Lavigne's comment that what we are really talking about here is akin to a major turntable upgrade - in performance only - while maintaining all of the functionality and aesthetics of our individual turntable choices. And given that, perhaps $10-14K is not all that outrageous.

I'm most anxious to read what Christian decides to buy and what the results are.

Hi Peter,

Firstly I would like to thank you for all the information you provided me for the vibraplane option along with compressor. I almost went that way until Mike L. brought up the fully "active" isolation option (Table Stable). I have put in for a price quote and expect to hear from them on Monday. I will go for the demo option. If it doesn't deliver a significant improvement, I can always return it and be out only shipping. Fortunately the unit I am looking at only weighs 68lbs, so shipping is not a big issue cost wise
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Hi Peter,

Firstly I would like to thank you for all the information you provided me for the vibraplane option along with compressor. I almost went that way until Mike L. brought up the fully "active" isolation option (Table Stable). I have put in for a price quote and expect to hear from them on Monday. I will go for the demo option. If it doesn't deliver a significant improvement, I can always return it and be out only shipping. Fortunately the unit I am looking at only weighs 68lbs, so shipping is not a big issue cost wise

Christian, That is a great plan. I like that it only weighs 68 lbs. The VP is a whopping 150 lbs. and once it's in place, it is unwise to move it.

I'm curious about how these active units operate. Do they react to vibrations coming up from beneath, or from vibrations in the equipment that is being isolated by draining those somehow, or do they operate in both directions? It seems that they isolate the components (microscopes, etc) from the environment, ie, trucks driving by, the earth's rumble etc. The end user probably has to rely on the turntable's design to deal effectively with vibrations generated by the turntable itself (motor, bearing etc). If those vibrations are drained away effectively from the platter, they may move down to the surface plate on the Halcyonics. This may be one reason that the massive steel ballast plate and steel Vibraplane itself (totaling 400 lbs) acts as an effective sink for vibrations generated by my SME motor which drains down through the legs and ball bearings on the footers to the steel ballast plate below.

I have experienced and and am of the opinion that proper isolation is essential to optimizing the performance of one's system. This is a very interesting thread.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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rockitman

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I see Kinetic Systems ( vibraplane) also make an active isolation system as well as their famous passive Vibraplane.

What are the differences between Halcyonics, Herzan and Kinetic Systems for their active isolation systems?
Anyone have the relative prices for each vs the passive alternative?


http://www.accurion.com/Silencer

http://www.herzan.com/resources/tutorials/active-vs-passive.html

http://www.kineticsystems.com/page156.html

They all appear to be consistent, relatively spec wise. I think all the pricing will be similar too.
 

thesaint519

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May 28, 2012
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Isn't the fact that the vibraplane is designed for scientific work a 'good thing' ? Scientists have to do real things that matter, and they use equipment that works.Of the items mentioned in this thread, the vibraplane is probably head and shoulders above the others. But I agree that the pump is a bit offputtng; mind you, it will be 'off' most of the time won't it. The pump only tops up the air when needed. The biggest disadvantage, at least for me, is the high cost. Best bought from a scientific equipment supplier rather than an audio supplier with big mark-ups.But scientific gear will never be cheap. I am tempted.

Wouldn't it depend on what the scientist was working in? SRA is responsible for developing isolation componentry for nuclear submarines. The budgets for nuclear submarines, I'd imagine, are probably exponentially greater that that if the typical scientist, no? That leads me to believe that SRA might have the "scientific" edge over vibraplanes. Just a thought.
 

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