First thoughts on the DMA-400

ack

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So I took a long listen the other day, and it was so compelling that I had to go back for a longer session today. System: 4000SL->30SS S2->400->Magico Q7, with the new Spectral/MIT cables.

First of all, this requirement that the DMA-400s be installed by a dealer. I consider it an unnecessary expense; the 400s are to be now effectively star-grounded with the preamp by lifting the amps' ground. Spending hundreds of dollars to have someone come in and install a cheater plug, only for me to then turn around and remove it, is just simply a waste. We spend so much money for those silly cryogenic connectors in our beloved power cords, that installing a cheap plug at the end doesn't make any sense; and it will eventually fall off if mounted horizontally. My guess is the best option is to either cut the ground prong or, better still, cover it with electrical tape.

On to the sound. A couple of years ago, the comment I made about the 30SS S2 preamp is that this was the end of smearing on the preamp side; based on what I heard lately, I haven't eaten my words yet. This time around, when it comes to the new monos, I believe they have achieved the same on the amp side as well. With worthy recordings, the level of realism I experienced was just extra ordinary. Anything from solo voice, to piano, chamber, full orchestral, to solo organ... I have PMd a couple of folks that although my 360S2's are exceptional amplifiers, there does exist a small amount of timbre smearing here and there, and I was hoping it'd be gone in the 400s. From what I heard so far, timbre, soundstaging and scale were simply true and natural. From my perspective and excluding ultimate macro dynamics, whatever limitations may theoretically still exist would probably be only evident with 15 or 30 ips tape and/or true hi-rez digital.

The amps are clearly faster and even more resolving, although their ability to resolve the tiniest of detail is, at this point, insignificant to me because there is already extraordinary resolution in what I have. Where this does make a difference though, again, is in rendering of timbre, and although small, if you consider every instrument in the orchestra, the improvement is sizable; thus, more evident with large, complex music. For the first time in my career as a high end audio consumer, I came out extremely relaxed, as is always the case coming out of Symphony Hall. Everything was so right and in its place. Tranquility. A feeling of being in a natural place. I was listening to the performance. I felt I was sitting in my favorite seat in the 1st or 2nd balcony looking down at the performers; the illusion was that realistic. With close-mic'd program, I could reach out and touch Oistrakh's fiddle; Netrebko was in front of me; Carreras's voice simply perfect - simple, not nasal, chesty or other; and the organ... oh, I don't think I will forget that experience... the huge size didn't matter, what mattered was how realistic each pipe sounded, period.

Obviously, since I used the dealer's time, I will have to buy these new... when the time comes... perhaps in a couple of years; we'll see. But Spectral lovers - or those who crave accuracy - should take a serious listen. It seems to me Spectral has crossed the ultra high end line into Reality Audio; we'll see how many gradations lie therein...
 
Last edited:

MadFloyd

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May 30, 2010
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In your own system or at Goodwins?
 

ack

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Original post completed.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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So I took a long listen the other day, and it was so compelling that I had to go back for a longer session today. System: 4000SL->30SS S2->400->Magico Q7, with the new Spectral/MIT cables.

First of all, this requirement that the DMA-400s be installed by a dealer. I consider it an unnecessary expense; the 400s are to be now effectively star-grounded with the preamp by lifting the amps' ground. Spending hundreds of dollars to have someone come in and install a cheater plug, only for me to then turn around and remove it, is just simply a waste. We spend so much money for those silly cryogenic connectors in our beloved power cords, that installing a cheap plug at the end doesn't make any sense; and it will eventually fall off if mounted horizontally. My guess is the best option is to either cut the ground prong or, better still, cover it with electrical tape.

On to the sound. A couple of years ago, the comment I made about the 30SS S2 preamp is that this was the end of smearing on the preamp side; based on what I heard lately, I haven't eaten my words yet. This time around, when it comes to the new monos, I believe they have achieved the same on the amp side as well. With worthy recordings, the level of realism I experienced was just extra ordinary. Anything from solo voice, to piano, chamber, full orchestral, to solo organ... I have PMd a couple of folks that although my 360S2's are exceptional amplifiers, there does exist a small amount of timbre smearing here and there, and I was hoping it'd be gone in the 400s. From what I heard so far, timbre, soundstaging and scale were simply true and natural. From my perspective and excluding ultimate macro dynamics, whatever limitations may theoretically still exist would probably be only evident with 15 or 30 ips tape and/or true hi-rez digital.

The amps are clearly faster and even more resolving, although their ability to resolve the tiniest of detail is, at this point, insignificant to me because there is already extraordinary resolution in what I have. Where this does make a difference though, again, is in rendering of timbre, and although small, if you consider every instrument in the orchestra, the improvement is sizable; thus, more evident with large, complex music. For the first time in my career as a high end audio consumer, I came out extremely relaxed, as is always the case coming out of Symphony Hall. Everything was so right and in its place. Tranquility. A feeling of being in a natural place. I was listening to the performance. I felt I was sitting in my favorite seat in the 1st or 2nd balcony looking down at the performers; the illusion was that realistic. With close-mic'd program, I could reach out and touch Oistrakh's fiddle; Netrebko was in front of me; Carreras's voice simply perfect - simple, not nasal, chesty or other; and the organ... oh, I don't think I will forget that experience... the huge size didn't matter, what mattered was how realistic each pipe sounded, period.

Obviously, since I used the dealer's time, I will have to buy these new... when the time comes... perhaps in a couple of years; we'll see. But Spectral lovers - or those who crave accuracy - should take a serious listen. It seems to me Spectral has crossed the ultra high end line into Reality Audio; we'll see how many gradations lie therein...

great write up! Thoughts on the Q7? Did you listen to the Altairs while you were there?
 

ack

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Well, this all applies to the Q7 as well, and basically what I've said before: an electrostatic that can do it almost all; but I am not the trained ear that others are. In the end, it's all a preference, and for me accuracy works the best.

Sorry, didn't listen to the Altairs, they are a fine speaker but not for what I listen to. I chose the Q7s because I had recent memories of it with the 360S2's with an otherwise unchanged configuration.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Well, this all applies to the Q7 as well, and basically what I've said before: an electrostatic that can do it almost all; but I am not the trained ear that others are. In the end, it's all a preference, and for me accuracy works the best.

Sorry, didn't listen to the Altairs, they are a fine speaker but not for what I listen to. I chose the Q7s because I had recent memories of it with the 360S2's with an otherwise unchanged configuration.

Thanks...I will try to hear the Q7 at Goodwins this summer...am already setup with them to hear the Altairs, with MSB digital and Constellation amps
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Thanks for the words, ack. You are very fortunate to have a dealer within a reasonable distance. I will not be able to hear them until a pair shows up in my home someday. I assume they maintain the character of the 260 with added power, ease etc more so than than any similarity to the 360S2?
 

ack

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I assume they maintain the character of the 260 with added power, ease etc more so than than any similarity to the 360S2?

I don't have recent memories of the 260, and they wouldn't be with the same otherwise system. But it really doesn't matter, they sound spectacularly realistic... I feel Spectral are on the final in-stadium lap of their 30+ year marathon. Feels like they finally found the right fuses :D
 

mauidan

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Aug 2, 2010
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So I took a long listen the other day, and it was so compelling that I had to go back for a longer session today. System: 4000SL->30SS S2->400->Magico Q7, with the new Spectral/MIT cables.

First of all, this requirement that the DMA-400s be installed by a dealer. I consider it an unnecessary expense; the 400s are to be now effectively star-grounded with the preamp by lifting the amps' ground. Spending hundreds of dollars to have someone come in and install a cheater plug, only for me to then turn around and remove it, is just simply a waste. We spend so much money for those silly cryogenic connectors in our beloved power cords, that installing a cheap plug at the end doesn't make any sense; and it will eventually fall off if mounted horizontally. My guess is the best option is to either cut the ground prong or, better still, cover it with electrical tape.

Wonder why Spectral doesn't put a ground lift switch on the amps.

I'd take the male power plug on your PCs apart and disconnect the ground wire, disconnect the ground wire on your AC outlet or disconnect the ground wire on the amp's IEC jack.

If your PCs are shielded, disconnect the ground wire at the IEC end.
 
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ack

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1rsw

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This is a fascinating subject to me. I stumbled on fine tuning ground for my amps by accident. I had a hum in my HT gear and eventually traced it back to a ground issue. We should actually start a specific thread that focuses on Spectral amps and ground. Maybe we'd even get some input from Spectral which would be ideal...and proper. Anyway, in my case I tried all sorts of combinations. My amps are in a different location than my front end so it's challenging but I'm sure also common. At one point I even had a split circuit outlet that had a separate hot for each side of the duplex giving each amp it's own breaker but a common neutral and ground. I also tried no ground at all for the amps outlets so they were essentially grounded to my dac/pre via the interconnects. Lastly, I tried running a ground wire directly from the amps outlet to the ground on the front end's outlet so there was no ground back to the panel from the amps outlet.

What was interesting about all this is how each configuration sounded very different. It bothered me that I did not know which different was correct! It still does. I suppose given ack's comments and what he took from the dealer that the "correct" configuration would be to have no ground at all on the amps outlets. I don't know if this complicates things but I know use an isolation transformer between that outlet and my amps. I guess thinking that through it probably does not make any difference and removing that ground may be the thing to do.
 

ack

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You haven't been doing what we've been saying all along: star-grounding. It looks like you finally discovered it.
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Ack not sure what you mean. Are you saying removing the ground wire and using the ic's to ground to the dac/pre is star grounding?
 

ack

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Ack not sure what you mean. Are you saying removing the ground wire and using the ic's to ground to the dac/pre is star grounding?

Not really; this is something new for the DMA-400s, and I have no idea how this would work with the 360s. Star-grounding can be achieved in a number of ways; I have been touting the benefits of plugging all of the equipment into one Z-Stip, or any other power distributor that implements star-grounding correctly. I have also gone to extremes in measuring even the impedance of each power cord, to make sure there is no chance of any ground potential being raised. Said otherwise, use the exact same power cables all around, or at least on all Spectral equipment connected to your worthy power distributor. If you don't ground properly and well, the sound will be hazy, and you may experience humming, buzzing, etc. (not saying incorrect grounding is the sole cause of these, either).
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Yes but this is assuming all gear is one spot. Since my amps are in another location then I have to get creative with ground to achieve this.

So the 400 are true balanced design and the 360S2 are not true balanced?
 

ack

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We cannot draw that conclusion based solely on grounding preferences. And I just don't know...
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Hmmmm....I looked through what info I could find and it doesn't directly say if the 360S2 are true balanced or not. I guess I should know this but I do not. Anyone know the answer to that question? I really wish Spectral would chime in on some of these threads.
 

Penthouse-D

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Sure, they'll respond to these posts a soon a they update their website. lol I agree with ack, why complicate matters. Jut use a good star grounded power strip. He use the MIT Z-strip. I'm using a Furutech E-TP609. Problem solved.
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
134
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365
Sure, they'll respond to these posts a soon a they update their website. lol I agree with ack, why complicate matters. Jut use a good star grounded power strip. He use the MIT Z-strip. I'm using a Furutech E-TP609. Problem solved.

Problem not solved if your amps are not located with your front end gear.
 

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