McIntosh SACD/CD players

Big Dog RJ · Mar 30, 2013

Believe me, I have tried it!

We (my c-j dealer buddy and I) hooked up a pair of LP125 monoblocks with the 2905's, we also used the Quad 80 monoblocks. We actually preferred the Quad monoblocks to the c-j, but when we set up the MV60SE with KT120 tubes and the LP70S (70w stereo amp) the sound stage and performance was at a whole different level. Even the smaller MV60SE stood out way in front in terms of sonics, fuller sound, and depth compared to the c-j mono's. To me the LP125 is not really a great c-j product; for the money there are far better c-j amps out there such as the LP70S, LP275 monoblocks, Premier 140 and so on...

As I said the sound relatively remains the same unless there is a change of output tubes of course; but what you get with c-j mono's is just more power and current.
We also tried two massive Audio research Ref 250's - now that was a different planet! One word - awesome!

We also tried the Lamm ML2.2 (my previous amps) great sound indeed, but with limited power in certain areas driving Electrostats. I think the ML2.2's are a far better match with easier loads and more efficient designs, such as Horns, or Wilsons for that matter. Steve Williams knows this area quite well.

Oh! I forgot we also tried Cary Audio special edition mono amps, much sweeter sound, still preferred the LP70S & the MV60SE overall.

Perhaps the MC302 would be an excellent match with the ACT2 driving 2905's. Maybe I'll post a few questions on the c-j tab just to check what others have to say, and their advice.

Thanks mate, and have a good one.
Happy Easter!
cheers, RJ

LL21 · Mar 30, 2013

Big Dog RJ said:
Believe me, I have tried it!

We (my c-j dealer buddy and I) hooked up a pair of LP125 monoblocks with the 2905's, we also used the Quad 80 monoblocks. We actually preferred the Quad monoblocks to the c-j, but when we set up the MV60SE with KT120 tubes and the LP70S (70w stereo amp) the sound stage and performance was at a whole different level. Even the smaller MV60SE stood out way in front in terms of sonics, fuller sound, and depth compared to the c-j mono's. To me the LP125 is not really a great c-j product; for the money there are far better c-j amps out there such as the LP70S, LP275 monoblocks, Premier 140 and so on...

As I said the sound relatively remains the same unless there is a change of output tubes of course; but what you get with c-j mono's is just more power and current.
We also tried two massive Audio research Ref 250's - now that was a different planet! One word - awesome!

We also tried the Lamm ML2.2 (my previous amps) great sound indeed, but with limited power in certain areas driving Electrostats. I think the ML2.2's are a far better match with easier loads and more efficient designs, such as Horns, or Wilsons for that matter. Steve Williams knows this area quite well.

Oh! I forgot we also tried Cary Audio special edition mono amps, much sweeter sound, still preferred the LP70S & the MV60SE overall.

Perhaps the MC302 would be an excellent match with the ACT2 driving 2905's. Maybe I'll post a few questions on the c-j tab just to check what others have to say, and their advice.

Thanks mate, and have a good one.
Happy Easter!
cheers, RJ

Thanks, RJ...great to know. There was a time when i considered the CJ ART monos to run with my CJ GAT. Have you heard them by any chance? How are the LP 275s in comparison to the CJ MV60?

Big Dog RJ · Apr 1, 2013

Yes in fact I have.

On a completely different system in Singapore during my last visit in March 2012. There were the ART monoblocks, GAT preamp, and Magico Q5's. Infact this dealer had a lot of Magico speakers, and mono amps of various top end brands. The sound was absolutely stunning! Very live impact and natural soundstage. He also had the LP275's driving YG Acoustics Anat III's. The preamp was an Audio note something... couldn't remember the model, but the system price tag was equivalent to a 2 bedroom house!

Compared to the MV60SE; there is no comparison! The LP275's brought back memories of the great premier 8A's. Very similar in sound, but the premier 8's and all those earlier premier series amps had that distinctive c-j glow of sound, which is not somewhat there in there newer designs. The LP series seems to have more naturalness and slam, which keeps my mind on the MV60SE having more musicality. There is something that the MV60SE does so much right with just 60 watts compared to larger monoblocks.

I'm not saying that the MV60SE is a far better amp compared to the LP275's or ART, in my opinion the MV60SE with KT120 tubes gives you so much bang for the buck, that you really cannot compare it to larger amps costing nearly 5 times or more. For that kind of money, I believe there are better brands out there that we have yet to discover.

However, when it comes to preamps, I could only possibly live with one, after having owned over 100 different kinds, and that is the ACT2 - another excellent value for money with an extraordinary performance level by c-j. I have a dentist friend who still owns the ART preamp, and swears by it. He can very easily afford the GAT or even the ridiculously priced top of the line Audio Note which retails for $100 grand plus for that matter, but this guy will not want anything else. I guess once you're hooked to your favourite preamp there's not letting go.

So you have the GAT preamp, wow! that must be cool. How's the sound? and what amps are you using, speakers etc.

Cheers mate and have a good one.
RJ

LL21 · Apr 1, 2013

Big Dog RJ said:
Yes in fact I have.

On a completely different system in Singapore during my last visit in March 2012. There were the ART monoblocks, GAT preamp, and Magico Q5's. Infact this dealer had a lot of Magico speakers, and mono amps of various top end brands. The sound was absolutely stunning! Very live impact and natural soundstage. He also had the LP275's driving YG Acoustics Anat III's. The preamp was an Audio note something... couldn't remember the model, but the system price tag was equivalent to a 2 bedroom house!

Compared to the MV60SE; there is no comparison! The LP275's brought back memories of the great premier 8A's. Very similar in sound, but the premier 8's and all those earlier premier series amps had that distinctive c-j glow of sound, which is not somewhat there in there newer designs. The LP series seems to have more naturalness and slam, which keeps my mind on the MV60SE having more musicality. There is something that the MV60SE does so much right with just 60 watts compared to larger monoblocks.

I'm not saying that the MV60SE is a far better amp compared to the LP275's or ART, in my opinion the MV60SE with KT120 tubes gives you so much bang for the buck, that you really cannot compare it to larger amps costing nearly 5 times or more. For that kind of money, I believe there are better brands out there that we have yet to discover.

However, when it comes to preamps, I could only possibly live with one, after having owned over 100 different kinds, and that is the ACT2 - another excellent value for money with an extraordinary performance level by c-j. I have a dentist friend who still owns the ART preamp, and swears by it. He can very easily afford the GAT or even the ridiculously priced top of the line Audio Note which retails for $100 grand plus for that matter, but this guy will not want anything else. I guess once you're hooked to your favourite preamp there's not letting go.

So you have the GAT preamp, wow! that must be cool. How's the sound? and what amps are you using, speakers etc.

Cheers mate and have a good one.
RJ

RJ, Thanks for that...extremely good to know. I remember the MV60 being an amazing amp with a special fire. I needed power and nearly went for a second one to monoblock...clearly there were further upgrades yet to come for that amp...the SE edition and then the KT120! Would love to hear CJ and Magico...in fact i have spoken with a few dealers/audiophiles who heard the Magico Q7s being driven by the Zanden digital, pre and amps...and said it was just about the best sound they'd ever heard.

Meanwhile, I have kept a CJ in my system since the very beginning of my second major system (CJ PV14L) back nearly 15 years ago. Today I run Zanden digital - CJ GAT - Gryphon Colosseum - Wilson X1/Grand Slamms - Veldoyne DD18 in parallel. Cabling is TA RefMM/XL (MM2) with PAD Dominus/Ann Contego PCs and largely HRS/Artesania/EAT for isolation. Its all been picked up one piece at a time second hand, and its taken me over 5 years to build it one piece at a time as i have found each piece i have been looking for. 2-3 more isolation/tweaks and thats the electronics done.

Big Dog RJ · Apr 7, 2013

Nice one! With that system - GAT for front end plus Gryphon for back end, and great source equipment, what more do you really need! Specially with the X1's that must be a nice overall sound, and one that is well balanced I trust.

I had the X2's driven with Lamm's, and in my smallish to average size room the sound was never balanced. For me to get it fully right I would have to spend at least another 20 grand just to improve on the room, hence when I got the Quads everything fell into place, and so went the X2's and the Lamm's to a more discerning audiophiles' room where it sounds simply stunning! Those Wilson speakers need a great deal of care when it comes to placement, and when you get their placement right, there probably is no comparison.

The room I have now are ideal for ESL's, the soundstage is very impressive and the soundstage is perfectly balanced. I don't have any tweaks such as bass traps or what not, just floor to wall carpeting and sofa's placed in critical positions blending with the rest of the small living room. The sound seems to capture the whole room and comes from a specific soundstage that gives the listener an effect like the live event in a small jazz club feeling. When I was in Chicago, I used to listen extensively to small jazz ensembles at Frankie's Blue room, The Den and Blue Note club, this was back in the mid 90's. The sound was unbelievable, and most of all un-amplified, therefore it was the absolute sound. And this is exactly what I get out of my present system, of course on a smaller scale compared to the live event, Yet most enjoyable.

I know quite a few audiophiles who have Wilson's and big Magico M series speakers, however the sound is no where from what the capability is, perhaps a two way monitor sounds better. But they don't want to admit it since they think they have purchased the best so therefore even if it sounds awful (which it does big time) they don't mind it. This is the typical equation where the room has been considered last!

There is this one chap who has a massive dinning table sandwiched between his X2's (the wife does not allow anywhere else...) you have to sort of listen from a right spot away in the living room, sounds like a big boom coming from the kitchen to be able to hear something. He claims that since his X2's are tall, the table is not in the way... yea right! Sadly no clue about soundstage, just loudness and slam. When their crystal wear starts rumbling in the cabinets that's when you know the X2's are playing a bass line!

I truly hope you've got your room sorted out, and enjoying the true power and finesse of those X1's. I still dream about my X2's, perhaps someday when the daughter is off to university and I have retired, then I could concentrate on a dedicated room for Wilson's once again.

Take it easy and have a good one.
Cheers, RJ

LL21 · Apr 7, 2013

Big Dog RJ said:
Nice one! With that system - GAT for front end plus Gryphon for back end, and great source equipment, what more do you really need! Specially with the X1's that must be a nice overall sound, and one that is well balanced I trust.

I had the X2's driven with Lamm's, and in my smallish to average size room the sound was never balanced. For me to get it fully right I would have to spend at least another 20 grand just to improve on the room, hence when I got the Quads everything fell into place, and so went the X2's and the Lamm's to a more discerning audiophiles' room where it sounds simply stunning! Those Wilson speakers need a great deal of care when it comes to placement, and when you get their placement right, there probably is no comparison.

The room I have now are ideal for ESL's, the soundstage is very impressive and the soundstage is perfectly balanced. Cheers, RJ

Sounds great, RJ. Yes, set up is critical with the Wilsons. Fractions of an inch matter. That said, because of their flexibility i have found the big Wilsons work in smaller rooms better than some of the other big speakers. Sounds like you've got a great setup...enjoy!

Big Dog RJ · Apr 11, 2013

Hi mate, was just wondering whether you've been thinking about the new XLF's?
I auditioned them in Singapore driven with Lamm ML 3 signatures, one word - "wow!" Reminded me way back during the good old days of those massive Infinity IRS V's tri-amped with Krell & Pass Labs monoblocks; huge soundstage, very live impact, but again needs big room and big set up.

The guy in Singapore was offering a very good price for the XLF's, I was almost tempted. But the cost of shipping, handling & insurance to Melbourne would have set me back another 10 grand, so forget that, plus my small house in Melbourne is really not enough for even one Wilson speaker, dam it!

I guess sometime later when retirement is planned in the making, a dedicated room and some nice Wilson's would be a good retirement package. One great speaker though from Wilson.

Yes, you're right about the Wilson's, they can sound far more coherent in smaller rooms compared to many other "big" speakers. I believe this is partly due to the critical driver placement and the way you can angle the drivers up or down to form that critical sound balance. However, they still do require a lot of space, and the more the better they sound.

What are your placement measurements with the X1's? have you got around 3 to 4 ft behind the speakers and its sides?

Cheers, RJ

stargate · Apr 11, 2013

GaryProtein said:
Congratulations on your acquisition!

I have always enjoyed my MDC500. No problems and no complaints. It always makes me smile.

same here, love my MDC500--

Big Dog RJ · Apr 19, 2013

discovering nuances with the MCD player

Hello fellow audiophiles and music lovers;

It has happened again, as it did way back in the early 90's, discovering the subtle nuances and amazing soundstage effects from your favourite tracks.
Back then I used so many different kinds of CD players ranging from the famous Marantz CD17, to the Ken Ishiwata signature, Copland, a two chassis Wadia, Meridian player, Linn, and finally onto the Conrad Johnson DV2-B, which was a vacuum tube for the output stage. This was my best player of all time since it brought about so many hidden musical effects that the other players could not touch upon for some reason...

Not that the others were bad (the Meridian was very good) they had strengths in only certain areas such as bass, or mid range, but the c-j player did everything right, and now once again I have discovered this phenomenon with the MCD301, being able to touch upon those hidden nuances and these are well brought about with great presence and impact. I guess only now the player is starting to really shine specially after "break in".

I also upgraded all my power cords to the top end of Nordost in the Norse series II. I guess this has also made the system have far more synergy. Perhaps I should just enjoy this for awhile and plan the next purchase decision more wisely without jumping too soon.

The new c-j LP125 stereo power amp (all KT120 tubes 120w/ch) is also available now in Melbourne. This has caused my all out run for the MC301 power amp to a halt for a while that is...

Any thoughts from anyone would be welcome; is this a normal thing with McIntosh players sounding better after around the 100 hour mark?
My c-j player never had this phenomenon, it just sounded fantastic right out of the box! They don't make digital playback sources anymore, rather McCormack has taken over that department.

Anyway, cheers to McIntosh for a wonderful outstanding product!

Enjoy your music, RJ

LL21 · Apr 19, 2013

Big Dog RJ said:
Hello fellow audiophiles and music lovers;

It has happened again, as it did way back in the early 90's, discovering the subtle nuances and amazing soundstage effects from your favourite tracks.
Back then I used so many different kinds of CD players ranging from the famous Marantz CD17, to the Ken Ishiwata signature, Copland, a two chassis Wadia, Meridian player, Linn, and finally onto the Conrad Johnson DV2-B, which was a vacuum tube for the output stage. This was my best player of all time since it brought about so many hidden musical effects that the other players could not touch upon for some reason...

Not that the others were bad (the Meridian was very good) they had strengths in only certain areas such as bass, or mid range, but the c-j player did everything right, and now once again I have discovered this phenomenon with the MCD301, being able to touch upon those hidden nuances and these are well brought about with great presence and impact. I guess only now the player is starting to really shine specially after "break in".

I also upgraded all my power cords to the top end of Nordost in the Norse series II. I guess this has also made the system have far more synergy. Perhaps I should just enjoy this for awhile and plan the next purchase decision more wisely without jumping too soon.

The new c-j LP125 stereo power amp (all KT120 tubes 120w/ch) is also available now in Melbourne. This has caused my all out run for the MC301 power amp to a halt for a while that is...

Any thoughts from anyone would be welcome; is this a normal thing with McIntosh players sounding better after around the 100 hour mark?
My c-j player never had this phenomenon, it just sounded fantastic right out of the box! They don't make digital playback sources anymore, rather McCormack has taken over that department.

Anyway, cheers to McIntosh for a wonderful outstanding product!

Enjoy your music, RJ

Congrats! On player...does it have tubes in the output stage? I often associate burn-in with capacitors (Teflon), sometimes wiring, sometimes tube products. On the CJ LP-125...please let us know if you hear it! Be very interested in your thoughts, as i have not heard it myself. Enjoy the Mc in the meantime!

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Big Dog RJ

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