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  1. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Exactly. The fact that the original DSD file might be different from the mastered data on the disc is irrelevant in this comparison. The entirety of the question is very simple: Is the Sonoma rip bit-identical when music is playing to the PS3 rip - that's it - simple question with a simple...
  2. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    I think all that mansr wants is a snippet of a dsf track coming from the Sonoma rip to compare with the PS3 ripped and dsf'd file. Just 30 secs would do, mansr can align whatever portion it is and do a bit-for-bit comparison after alignment.
  3. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Did you get something?
  4. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Ball is on Bruce's court methinks...
  5. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Did you get to do the DSD comparison?
  6. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Is this for one track?
  7. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Mansr (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?3341-Ripping-SACDs-the-right-way&p=340008&viewfull=1#post340008) did a double rip: CD ripped directly and CD ripped via toslink out into computer (from a PS3 as a player no less). After alignment of the WAVs the two files are bit-identical...
  8. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Fade in/out would not be bit perfect surely. More importantly fade in/out is lame and should not be done, period!!! If the musician did it then fine, it's their choice and I respect that, but a rip or player doing that? Trash bin I say! :) And if a fade in/out is required so that you don't get...
  9. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    I don't worry about it except this means the motivation to put proper markers is not strong, which means tools that rely on markers rather than TOC will get the wrong track start/ends. There's tons of spec violations out there. Hidden tracks are surely not in the spec.
  10. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    How can this be??? Really... How can this be???
  11. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Maybe it was in the track to start with, the PS3 dsf just started later due to a belated marker? Or maybe it's Sonoma post processing?
  12. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Actually, it can't be this way I don't think since if I skip to the next track it would have to read the whole thing until it finds the marker! When you insert a disc in a CD/SACD player the machine reads some sort of directory structure from the most inner tracks. It's probably here that it...
  13. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Makes perfect sense. Doesn't sound like rocket science to device an sacd_extract routine that behaves exactly like the Sonoma. From your explanation I also understand why the mastering engineer might conceivably be less than careful about where the markers are placed, especially in a gapless...
  14. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    I VERY much doubt this comes from the transport. It would require fairly ellaborate massaging of the data stream. Why would a transport do this (mute/not mute is not fade in/out).
  15. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Fabulous! That is ALL I want to see!!! Please someone with a PS3 rip and a Sonoma workstation do the same from the same exact disc? (I realize that religious objections might make this set empty... ;) )
  16. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    I don't know... I do know that some players don't do gapless properly regardless of the source of the dsf files. In particular downloaded dsf. But unfortunately I don't have an example in mind of a downloaded dsf which does not properly do gapless in a particular software player. Perhaps someone...
  17. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Ok, I get that and I agree. However, this is a slightly different issue compared to the one I am really interested in which is the quality of the playback itself. Exactly, agree. And it would be super if this discussion leads to an improvement in the ISO->DSF code, wouldn't it? :) But it is...
  18. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Ok, not sure I understand... Silence between tracks is a non-issue to me (this is what I meant by leader/tail). From what you say above I gather the Sonoma is producing multiple tracks vs one dsf file out of the PS3? Might this be because the Sonoma might be interpreting a longer silence as a...
  19. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    The assumption was the Sonoma was not post processing any data. If this is not the case then the whole thread is meaningless! :)
  20. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Ok. So same tracks, aligned at the start, eventually gets out of sync? Example please.
  21. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Exactly. This is a non-issue. What I really want to know is: take one track, and align the dsd streams (if they match at all this should be possible). Now compared those streams in the digital domain. Are they different? If they aren't, case closed. If they are, change them to a waveform and do...
  22. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Of all that has been said, this is truly the most bizarre thing of all. If you aligned the beginning and the end is off by a couple of seconds, then the only possible explanations I can imagine are: 1- There are notes missing in the shorter rip or blanks added in the longer one 2- Somehow the...
  23. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Answering Bruce's comment, which I interpreted as referring to the final DAC process. +1
  24. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    I'll assume you mean to respond to my comment regarding the TSDX+DAC2X... The UHF filtering is done on the DAC2X in both cases so this is a meaningful comparison. That is, you either 1- Play the disc on the TSDX sending the data over stoptical to the DAC2X or 2- Play a dff file produced...
  25. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    It would be like comparing CD rips directly from the disc data vs playing the disc on a cd player, taking the digital output, and recording it in your computer. "Bits are bits" but frankly I would not expect those two to be identical. What I might expect is: if you take the pure PCM or DSD...
  26. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    This is my issue with the claim... A trusted source had a TSDX+DAC2X which link via optilink (same as the link to the Sonoma). His assessment was that PS3 rips sounded superior to the SACDs played on the TSDX. The Sonoma slaves to the TSDX clock so I don't think it would be doing any reclocking...
  27. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Assuming gain adjusted to remove an offset, what's the spectrum of the diff? Is this an alignment issue possibly?
  28. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Ok got it. Any specific example I could play with?
  29. miguelito

    Ripping SACDs the right way

    Can you give specific examples? Also, was this playing an ISO file from the PS3 or the dsf tracks off of the ISO->DSF conversion?
  30. miguelito

    DSD Battle Royale!

    Bruce: Could you point me to the files please? Thx.

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