Magico M6 on TAS

[the sound of Tao]

Thanks Al,
I do wonder why JV tends to polarise people so divisively in their opinions of him. He clearly has a following out there and in industry but also some people are clearly quite incensed by him as well. Maybe the why of things isn’t really important here and maybe it just is.

I find the further I come in this hobby the more I am loving just listening to the music and the less caught up I am in hearing the noise. None of it is perfect but yes it is what we have and I wouldn’t be without it.

 

[beaur]

Mike,

It's not just Magico, but I do get the issue, think Porche, water vs air cooled!

I think it has a lot to do with the new kid on the block and people getting personally attached to their new purchase. Also has to do with peole who can't separate what they like from what's "good". Even if I could afford the M6 I wouldn't buy a pair as Magico's aren't my cup of tea. Does that make them bad? No, of course not but some beleive that what they don't like isn't "good".

Now JV review stylings are in my book too much PT Barnum. There's a lot of meat in there somewhere but getting pass all the circus clowns is too difficult. Doesn't make him a bad reviewer it just makes him one I tend not to read.

I'll reach for the Elgar, maybe some JL Hooker.

Beau

why do Magico focused threads always come off the rails? it seems like the posting takes a dark, nasty turn. like the gapers block on the freeway when there is an accident in the far lanes. we want to see if there is any blood.

time for music. a little Debussy tonight I think....

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike,

It's not just Magico, but I do get the issue, think Porche, water vs air cooled!

I think it has a lot to do with the new kid on the block and people getting personally attached to their new purchase. Also has to do with peole who can't separate what they like from what's "good". Even if I could afford the M6 I wouldn't buy a pair as Magico's aren't my cup of tea. Does that make them bad? No, of course not but some beleive that what they don't like isn't "good".

Now JV review stylings are in my book too much PT Barnum. There's a lot of meat in there somewhere but getting pass all the circus clowns is too difficult. Doesn't make him a bad reviewer it just makes him one I tend not to read.

I'll reach for the Elgar, maybe some JL Hooker.

Beau

the Debussy was sublime. this morning Bach Sonatas. then maybe some Lou Reed.....to snap me back.

JV's job is to hype the brand. the manufacturers pay the magazine to use any copy in their advertisements or their website. so he is, in fact, writing 'ad copy'. we can like that, or filter that part out ourselves. there is no 'wrong' viewpoint to take. I've not read anything he has written that appears to be 'made up' or different than what a reasonable listener might also hear. he just expresses it better than most.

as far as Magico, I too would like to hear the M6. I could see myself owning Magico before many other brands, and it's trend is more toward my sonic compass than away. does the M6 get all the way into my 'sweet spot'? it could (i'm not in the market for different speakers). only that I do like aspects of the Magico sound a lot.

 

[KeithR]

I don't know and I don't care, you can gossip on anyone, he is just a reporter not my doctor. I read his reviews and in most cases see his point. Not to mention that I think he is a great writer and get the coolest toys I can only dream on. I will never order anything base on a review only, unless I have confident in the manufacturer as well, not just the reviewer say.

He's not just a reporter, cannata.

 

[Priaptor]

While we are not yet near the Passover Holiday, the article with Alon and JV remind me of the passage from the Haggadah,

How is this speaker different from all other speakers?

1. On all other nights, we listen to MDF enclosures. Why on this night, only carbon fiber and aluminum enclosures
2. On all other nights, we listen to diamond coated drivers. Why, on this night diamond coated beryllium drivers
3. On all other nights, we don’t praise even once. Why on this night do we praise incessantly?
4. On all other nights, we listen sitting upright or reclining. Why on this night do we listen standing next to the speaker?

Excuse me but I just can't take the JV hype anymore. How long will JV get the M6 on extended loan for? Well I guess the rapidity with which Alon releases new speakers that are the new best replacing last months best or new versions of last months best, maybe JV's "extended loan" will become shorter and shorter.

 

[Ron Resnick]

For a tiny industry based on the passion and scientific artistry of engineers dedicated to creating lifelike sound at the flip of a switch, and based on our love of the music we cherish, it is shocking how rotten to the core are the business practices and ethics of some of the industry's participants.

In the securities industry such practices would get such people deregistered, banned and fined.

 

[DaveyF]

For a tiny industry based on the passion and scientific artistry of engineers dedicated to creating lifelike sound at the flip of a switch, and based on our love of the music we cherish, it is shocking how rotten to the core are the business practices and ethics of some of the industry's participants.

In the securities industry such practices would get such people deregistered, banned and fined.

+1000

 

[Elliot G.]

For a tiny industry based on the passion and scientific artistry of engineers dedicated to creating lifelike sound at the flip of a switch, and based on our love of the music we cherish, it is shocking how rotten to the core are the business practices and ethics of some of the industry's participants.

In the securities industry such practices would get such people deregistered, banned and fined.

As a member of this Industry for a long time and one that grew up with Gordon Holt and Harry Pearson I find it hard to wrap my head around the policy changes and the changing of direction and focus of some of the leading review publications. First it was reviewing prototypes, a serious no-no, then it was designing 3 different review programs so that every product would fit somewhere without getting a mediocre or bad review, then its reviewing product that isn't even in your own room or system. It does seem to the naked eye that there is a form of favoritism extended to certain unnamed companies ( choke, gag, choke) by a few unnamed reviewers (double gag choke). We seem to have really allowed these publications to kidnap and take the process somewhere that they were never intended to go. Harry hated the idea of taking advertisement and this is why he did.
I believe that in order to be taken seriously some standards are required and need to be followed.
Reviewing products at a show or in a manufacturers showroom seem to be in my opinion out side the lines of quality work. How does one make judgement with an infinite set of variables????

 

[GMKF]

For a tiny industry based on the passion and scientific artistry of engineers dedicated to creating lifelike sound at the flip of a switch, and based on our love of the music we cherish, it is shocking how rotten to the core are the business practices and ethics of some of the industry's participants.

In the securities industry such practices would get such people deregistered, banned and fined.

+1000 aswell

Thanks Ron !

 

[microstrip]

For a tiny industry based on the passion and scientific artistry of engineers dedicated to creating lifelike sound at the flip of a switch, and based on our love of the music we cherish, it is shocking how rotten to the core are the business practices and ethics of some of the industry's participants.

In the securities industry such practices would get such people deregistered, banned and fined.

Ron,

Unless you know a lot more than what is being debated in this forum, I can't see the reason for such extreme comment.

 

[cannata]

For a tiny industry based on the passion and scientific artistry of engineers dedicated to creating lifelike sound at the flip of a switch, and based on our love of the music we cherish, it is shocking how rotten to the core are the business practices and ethics of some of the industry's participants.

In the securities industry such practices would get such people deregistered, banned and fined.

As you are the site admin I find your comments unsettling.
Going on a Magico thread, spewing gossip and loathing is distasteful.
If you have something specific to say against some “industry's participants” you should be more factual and say it.

 

[Audiocrack]

Ron,

Unless you know a lot more than what is being debated in this forum, I can't see the reason for such extreme comment.

Yes, Micro, I am afraid there is more going on but that is not something I want to discuss out in the open.

 

[Audiocrack]

As you are the site admin I find your comments unsettling.
Going on a Magico thread, spewing gossip and loathing is distasteful.
If you have something specific to say against some “industry's participants” you should be more factual and say it.

Ron’s comment is a general remark, Cannata, and he is not (particularly) referring to Magico in my view.

 

[PeterA]

For a tiny industry based on the passion and scientific artistry of engineers dedicated to creating lifelike sound at the flip of a switch, and based on our love of the music we cherish, it is shocking how rotten to the core are the business practices and ethics of some of the industry's participants.

In most other industries such practices would get such people deregistered, banned and fined.

Ron, When I think of practices in other industries that would get people deregistered, banned and fined, I think of illegal activity or breaches of professional ethics. You must know something that I don't about the industry. What TAS is doing seems to be fairly open, well understood, legal, and for the most part accepted by the participants and by their audience. If people don't like the practices, or JV's reviewing style, they should not buy the magazine. Is Magico, or any of the other manufacturers who advertise in TAS and get reviews doing anything illegal? Is TAS doing anything illegal? It seems that the market has created this condition and the market will decide if such publications or these manufacturers will go out of business.

I really do not think this is so different from what happens in many other industries. Fund managers are wined and dined by brokers all the time. You should see the real estate brokers in my town. Their behavior is incredible and I avoid them as much as I can. The Magico/TAS arrangement may be distasteful to some, but they can choose to avoid it. That is fine. Don't read JV.

Why don't those "in the know" blow this wide open and tell us what is really going on? I figured out a long time ago that few people pay retail prices for high end audio, especially those who know somebody. It seems to me that the business can be pretty brutal. Participants do what they must to survive. Some of it may be rotten and unethical. If it is illegal, that is an entirely different matter. There are also some excellent, highly ethical members of the industry.

 

[Ron Resnick]

As you are the site admin I find your comments unsettling.
Going on a Magico thread, spewing gossip and loathing is distasteful.
If you have something specific to say against some “industry's participants” you should be more factual and say it.

I was making only a general point. I did not intend to suggest anything about Magico specifically. (Thank you, Audiocrack.) I don't blame Alon one bit for the business practices he finds in his industry.

I do consider Jonathan to be one of the "some of the industry's participants" to which I referred. I gladly will delete my post, and the posts supportive of my post, if that will clear the air.

You and Peter A are both correct that I should have stated that the securities industry is the industry I had in mind for comparison. I have corrected my post and limited the comparison to the securities industry, which may or may not be a valid comparison to the high-end audio industry.

Again, if my original statement is overbroad I gladly will retract it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, When I think of practices in other industries that would get people deregistered, banned and fined, I think of illegal activity or breaches of professional ethics. You must know something that I don't about the industry. What TAS is doing seems to be fairly open, well understood, legal, and for the most part accepted by the participants and by their audience. If people don't like the practices, or JV's reviewing style, they should not buy the magazine. Is Magico, or any of the other manufacturers who advertise in TAS and get reviews doing anything illegal? Is TAS doing anything illegal? It seems that the market has created this condition and the market will decide if such publications or these manufacturers will go out of business.

I really do not think this is so different from what happens in many other industries. Fund managers are wined and dined by brokers all the time. You should see the real estate brokers in my town. Their behavior is incredible and I avoid them as much as I can. The Magico/TAS arrangement may be distasteful to some, but they can choose to avoid it. That is fine. Don't read JV.

Why don't those "in the know" blow this wide open and tell us what is really going on? I figured out a long time ago that few people pay retail prices for high end audio, especially those who know somebody. It seems to me that the business can be pretty brutal. Participants do what they must to survive. Some of it may be rotten and unethical. If it is illegal, that is an entirely different matter. There are also some excellent, highly ethical members of the industry.

Peter, I agree on all points. But I never suggested that these practices in the high-end audio industry were illegal. I suggested, by correcting my original post by limiting the comparison to the securities industry, that these practices, especially when undisclosed, would be illegal in the securities industry.

 

[microstrip]

Ron, When I think of practices in other industries that would get people deregistered, banned and fined, I think of illegal activity or breaches of professional ethics. You must know something that I don't about the industry. What TAS is doing seems to be fairly open, well understood, legal, and for the most part accepted by the participants and by their audience. If people don't like the practices, or JV's reviewing style, they should not buy the magazine. Is Magico, or any of the other manufacturers who advertise in TAS and get reviews doing anything illegal? Is TAS doing anything illegal? It seems that the market has created this condition and the market will decide if such publications or these manufacturers will go out of business.

I really do not think this is so different from what happens in many other industries. Fund managers are wined and dined by brokers all the time. You should see the real estate brokers in my town. Their behavior is incredible and I avoid them as much as I can. The Magico/TAS arrangement may be distasteful to some, but they can choose to avoid it. That is fine. Don't read JV.

Why don't those "in the know" blow this wide open and tell us what is really going on? I figured out a long time ago that few people pay retail prices for high end audio, especially those who know somebody. It seems to me that the business can be pretty brutal. Participants do what they must to survive. Some of it may be rotten and unethical. If it is illegal, that is an entirely different matter. There are also some excellent, highly ethical members of the industry.

Wise words Peter.

 

[Kingsrule]

Ron


U shouldn't be "correcting" ur original posts...u did say it after all. U should make an additional post......pretty lame

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think we all have the ability to edit our own posts, don't we?

I wrote twice in subsequent posts that I corrected my original post. I did not hide it or pretend I never wrote it originally. I corrected an earlier, overbroad statement.

What is wrong with that? Maybe I am not understanding you . . .

 

[Ron Resnick]

I apologize to all for my post which was not closely related to the opening post and the purpose of this thread.

Please let's get back to the purpose of this thread which is the celebration of a fantastic review of the new Magico M6!

If I can extrapolate from what I heard from the M3 and from the S5 Mk. II the M6 must sound amazing! I agree with MikeL that Magico is meandering its way to a sound which is much closer to what people who found Magico's early products to be on the analytical side find appealing.