I am so conFUSED!
You did NOT just say that!
That needs to be saved and put up on a trophy shelf someplace.Audiophile Fuses
- Thread starter MylesBAstor
- Start date
You did NOT just say that!
That needs to be saved and put up on a trophy shelf someplace.On fuses: first, consider that all the AC power in a component passes directly through the (tiny) fuse element. Is it really that surprising that changing the fuse makes a difference?
fuse holders: indeed, they can be problematic. I DIY, and use Furutech IECs with built in fuse holders, hoping that the Furutech part is a little better
On bypassing: the fuse is the final fail safe, it is there to stop your component from catching fire (or the case becoming live with AC) in case of an internal failure of some kind, so bypass fuses at your own risk. Yes, the circumstances in which a component might catch fire without fuse protection are rare, but it has happened (I used to work customer service for a well known audio company, and have seen at least once a component catching fire; the fuse holder actually arced in such a way as to weld the two sides together!)
A/B testing, someday I will A/B test audiophile fuses vs. a bypass, that would be interesting. Note that Ayre has eliminated the fuse on their new DAC in favor of a circuit breaker, precisely to get rid of the audio degradation caused by the fuse (and note that installing a circuit breaker is much, much more expensive for them than using a fuse).
I use Synergistic Black and Blue fuses, and as with most things Synergistic makes, I find they offer an improvement in sound, even though it is a bit maddening!
fuse holders: indeed, they can be problematic. I DIY, and use Furutech IECs with built in fuse holders, hoping that the Furutech part is a little better
On bypassing: the fuse is the final fail safe, it is there to stop your component from catching fire (or the case becoming live with AC) in case of an internal failure of some kind, so bypass fuses at your own risk. Yes, the circumstances in which a component might catch fire without fuse protection are rare, but it has happened (I used to work customer service for a well known audio company, and have seen at least once a component catching fire; the fuse holder actually arced in such a way as to weld the two sides together!)
A/B testing, someday I will A/B test audiophile fuses vs. a bypass, that would be interesting. Note that Ayre has eliminated the fuse on their new DAC in favor of a circuit breaker, precisely to get rid of the audio degradation caused by the fuse (and note that installing a circuit breaker is much, much more expensive for them than using a fuse).
I use Synergistic Black and Blue fuses, and as with most things Synergistic makes, I find they offer an improvement in sound, even though it is a bit maddening!
Yes it would be a surprise if the AC power line fuse made a difference.
Consider that the AC is converted to DC in the power supply and stored as DC in large electrolytic capacitors.
Years ago, before I built my own preamp, I had a Sonic Frontiers with 5AR4 rectifier. It arc'ed over and took out the 1st resistor in the B+ supply, fuse did not blow. A year later the power trafo melted down and the fuse did not blow. Luckily I was there both times, as you should be with tube gear, imo it shouldn't be left on.
I've never (knock on wood) had a fuse blow where it actually did it's job as designed, and the circuit breaker in your electrical box will trip as a final fail-safe.
I have started using circuit breakers in my gear, so far a DAC/DSP, 2 preamps, a tube amp and 2 SS amps all have circuit breakers in them, but I might just bypass them too.
I've never (knock on wood) had a fuse blow where it actually did it's job as designed, and the circuit breaker in your electrical box will trip as a final fail-safe.
I have started using circuit breakers in my gear, so far a DAC/DSP, 2 preamps, a tube amp and 2 SS amps all have circuit breakers in them, but I might just bypass them too.
Yes, but the "water tank" analogy for caps and water flow in general for picturing how electricity works has a lot of flaws and people are often mislead by thinking about it like that. This is one example of how the analogy fails.
Electrolytic? Yuk!
Why not think of a fuse as a mini power conditioner. That way it's easier to understand how they affect the final SQ.
But, if you can't hear a difference, don't worry about them.
And the power cord doesn't, and the balanced transformer doesn't, and the footers don't, because they're all not in the signal path.
Come on Ron, open your mind.
Come on Ron, open your mind.
Everything is in the "signal path", starting with the power coming into your home - and that's why we need power conditioners and other gimmicks - all the way to proper grounding. The fuse can act as a choke to instantaneous current delivery when the program demands it. In the end, everything matters.
Speed: While I certainly understand what you are saying, have you seen measurements which show audio frequencies on AC cabling when playing music? Presuming that power supply capacitance isolates the AC line entirely appears to be in error.
No, that's just wrong.
The AC power is rectified and then used to create the final amplified waveform we hear. The fuse is directly in the signal path and the analogy of caps to "storage tanks" is just wrong.
As I stated in my previous post, the water analogy is just bad and leads to a lot of misunderstandings. This is one of them.
Exactly. There is still a direct relation via the EMF of reactive components and there is an instantaneous reaction, these PS storage caps do not do what most people seem to imagine them to do.
Good observations Dave. In my experience in customer service I have seen many times where a fuse did do its job. I received for repair many audio components that were "blowing their fuse", every time the customer switched it on the fuse would blow. Sure enough these components had an internal short (talking transistor stuff in these cases) and the blown fuse protected the circuit from further damage (like transformer melt down, etc). In most of these cases the repairs just required replacing the shorted transistor. So, in well engineered gear the AC line fuse does work to prevent further damage, fires, etc.
Indeed, the home circuit breaker "should" prevent fires, etc. That is if it works properly, almost always they do, but sometimes not, and sometimes internal wiring in homes is faulty as well. The fuse in the component is another fail safe, belt and suspenders. Like I said, I have seen at least once where a component literally caught fire (and the home's breaker did not stop this), and I would not want anyone to ever experience this, hence my warning about bypassing. The chances of it happening are indeed rare, it would require a "perfect storm" of problems, but the consequences can be so high as to make the risk, perhaps, not worth it (burned down house...). I run solid state gear in my system, and everything is on all the time, so I will not add the (albeit small) risk of bypassing the AC line fuse.
Totally directly. Amplification is a modulation of the DC signal coming out of the power supply, based on the input signal waveform. That DC is directly connected to your power. Thus, distortions in the DC directly affect the sound.
But the cycle to cycle voltage variation on the AC line is orders of magnitude larger than any possible fuse variation.
If the AC fuse is in the signal path, then all the fuses and circuit breakers all the way back to the power company generator are also in the path.
So then just what do the electrolytic capacitors do?
Yes, analogy's like that do lead to misunderstandings.
"If the AC fuse is in the signal path, then all the fuses and circuit breakers all the way back to the power company generator are also in the path."
Yes, I would consider the above true. But as home owners we have little power to control such things, we can only work on what we can. The same is true of recordings, they are what they are, no matter how much we wish they were better in many cases.
But, i would suggest that the high voltage traveling to the transformer which feeds our house is much less likely to matter (if at all) after the transformer feeding our home though... I am lucky to have a transformer feeding my home which is not shared by other users.
Yes, I would consider the above true. But as home owners we have little power to control such things, we can only work on what we can. The same is true of recordings, they are what they are, no matter how much we wish they were better in many cases.
But, i would suggest that the high voltage traveling to the transformer which feeds our house is much less likely to matter (if at all) after the transformer feeding our home though... I am lucky to have a transformer feeding my home which is not shared by other users.
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