New WAMM details

[bonzo75]

Now we are talking. Active amplification? Room integration software?

Are WBF members with Alexandria 2.2 or XLF considering these speakers? Rockitman, Steve, Lloyd, others?

Perhaps a topic for another thread, and I realize that few have heard this speaker yet, but it seems that speakers are one area where things can still improve as designers understand more about materials, crossovers, driver technology, enclosures, etc. Perhaps vintage horn and Apogee lovers will disagree. Electronics, cables, sources are also improving, but perhaps not as fast or to the same degree. Thoughts?

Peter, restored apogees and such use many modern tech for restores, such as newer crossover components and ribbons and magnets (in fact, I don't like original apogees). TTs are modded as well. The good thing about such ventures is that they are more hobby driven rather than commercial, and hence provide high Sonics at lower price, though at the cost of service, distribution, and the fact that awareness and hence the resale value is restricted to only followers of such restores. Most of them will fail Ron's criteria for "real companies", I.e. Companies that have proven existence over a period.

On the other hand, just because I like these, I am not saying things haven't progressed. It is quite possible these sound good because they are expert mods rather than commercial stuff. A lot of products I have liked - Lampi, Schopper thorens, restored apogees, are DIY expert mods and not commercial stuff (Lampi has become bigger scale recently, so I hope he does not forget his roots)
Btw, I also like modern horns and speakers such as stenheim and the new YG Hailey, just not as much as a restored apogee or WE or some big horns, though definitely more practical and living room friendly

 

[microstrip]

Now we are talking. Active amplification? Room integration software?

Are WBF members with Alexandria 2.2 or XLF considering these speakers? Rockitman, Steve, Lloyd, others?

Perhaps a topic for another thread, and I realize that few have heard this speaker yet, but it seems that speakers are one area where things can still improve as designers understand more about materials, crossovers, driver technology, enclosures, etc. Perhaps vintage horn and Apogee lovers will disagree. Electronics, cables, sources are also improving, but perhaps not as fast or to the same degree. Thoughts?

As far as I understand the price of WAMM is still an unknown - we have just guesses. IMHO modern technology allow designers to control much better the small variations responsible for achieving high sound quality and reach their aims in a trusty and reliable way, achieving a much higher compatibility with other equipment. A similar think has been happening in electronics.

Most of the time innovation in high-end is not using new technologies - it is just using old ones in a more controlled and more intelligent way. Better tools and better and more efficient ways of designing and measuring play a significant role. IMHO high-end engineering is a team work, but a team must have some one with special talent to guide the whole effort.

Amateur finely tuned designs or rebuilt/old vintage can represent great value and achieve high sound quality and the preference of some people, but have a much narrower scope - only a few critical equipments can play decently on them, with some type of recordings. They have not passed under the scrutiny of most of us, and to be sincere, what I have read until now, coupled with my experience and musical preferences does not enthusiasm me to follow this line.

 

[JackD201]

Peter, restored apogees and such use many modern tech for restores, such as newer crossover components and ribbons and magnets (in fact, I don't like original apogees). TTs are modded as well. The good thing about such ventures is that they are more hobby driven rather than commercial, and hence provide high Sonics at lower price, though at the cost of service, distribution, and the fact that awareness and hence the resale value is restricted to only followers of such restores. Most of them will fail Ron's criteria for "real companies", I.e. Companies that have proven existence over a period.

On the other hand, just because I like these, I am not saying things haven't progressed. It is quite possible these sound good because they are expert mods rather than commercial stuff. A lot of products I have liked - Lampi, Schopper thorens, restored apogees, are DIY expert mods and not commercial stuff (Lampi has become bigger scale recently, so I hope he does not forget his roots)
Btw, I also like modern horns and speakers such as stenheim and the new YG Hailey, just not as much as a restored apogee or WE or some big horns, though definitely more practical and living room friendly

Ked that's where practically all designers have their roots.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked that's where practically all designers have their roots.

Yes but some go commercial, start outsourcing, spending too much on marketing, etc etc, working for profit margins. Prices go higher and costs go lower. Some stay DIY small time

 

[bonzo75]

Amateur finely tuned designs or rebuilt/old vintage can represent great value and achieve high sound quality and the preference of some people, but have a much narrower scope - only a few critical equipments can play decently on them, with some type of recordings. They have not passed under the scrutiny of most of us, and to be sincere, what I have read until now, coupled with my experience and musical preferences does not enthusiasm me to follow this line.

This is incorrect. There is so much variation in DIY designs (and amateur is a red herring, as some of them would be more professional). I fail to see how ex-Goldmund engineers who started with Magico 10 years ago can compete with the open source learning on Apogees for decades. I also fail to see how a company like Wilson, that caters to a bunch of audiophiles and does no R&D on producing its own drivers, can compete with a company that was funding R&D from Bell Labs and the US govt. Most audiophiles keep upgrading modern equipment precisely because only some recordings or type of music play on them.

You are right they have not passed the scrutiny of many on this forum. Because, the 5 guys who ordered the first 10 apogee grands, 2 each, don't hang out on such forums. The guy who owns each apogee model powered by Boulder amps doesn't hang out on such forums. 3 people from this forum with differing tastes did hear the EMT, American Sounds, and Techdas and Thorens Ref. Findings are clear (and I am a fan of techdas, btw). Continuum was sold off for Seiki 8000, EMT. Top level SMT and Brinkmann was sold off for Thorens 124 modded. There are many such examples, one has to search for them. it is possible you don't read about them and have limited experience with them, but to say that they are limited in playback of recordings is incorrect.

Unfortunately, most of the purchases come from limited decision making - people do not have the capacity to do legwork due to other commitments, go to a couple of hifi shows, local dealers and audio buddies and forum reviews, then use their own theoretical design ideology to come up with what price tag to buy, and then based on sunk costs, get locked into upgrading to either same brand or same dealer trade-ins. That's the reality.

 

[bonzo75]

One of the best modern thing for classical digital guys is MCH and it never took off on such forums except for Kal and his friends, and edorr. Sad.

 

[microstrip]

This is incorrect. There is so much variation in DIY designs (and amateur is a red herring, as some of them would be more professional). I fail to see how ex-Goldmund engineers who started with Magico 10 years ago can compete with the open source learning on Apogees for decades. I also fail to see how a company like Wilson, that caters to a bunch of audiophiles and does no R&D on producing its own drivers, can compete with a company that was funding R&D from Bell Labs and the US govt. Most audiophiles keep upgrading modern equipment precisely because only some recordings or type of music play on them.

You are right they have not passed the scrutiny of many on this forum. Because, the 5 guys who ordered the first 10 apogee grands, 2 each, don't hang out on such forums. The guy who owns each apogee model powered by Boulder amps doesn't hang out on such forums. 3 people from this forum with differing tastes did hear the EMT, American Sounds, and Techdas and Thorens Ref. Findings are clear (and I am a fan of techdas, btw). Continuum was sold off for Seiki 8000, EMT. Top level SMT and Brinkmann was sold off for Thorens 124 modded. There are many such examples, one has to search for them. it is possible you don't read about them and have limited experience with them, but to say that they are limited in playback of recordings is incorrect.

Unfortunately, most of the purchases come from limited decision making - people do not have the capacity to do legwork due to other commitments, go to a couple of hifi shows, local dealers and audio buddies and forum reviews, then use their own theoretical design ideology to come up with what price tag to buy, and then based on sunk costs, get locked into upgrading to either same brand or same dealer trade-ins. That's the reality.

The nice think about audio forums is that we have different opinions. I read and enjoy your posts, preferences and opinions. But IMHO in order to say straight on that I am incorrect you have to show more than a few individual cases taken from WBF and refer ambiguously that " There are many such examples, one has to search for them" and present divagations on turntables.

BTW, I am more optimist that you about the situation of this hobby - many people I know well have excellent systems they enjoy a lot. Surely I also know of stories as you tell, but they are a minority.

 

[bonzo75]

The nice think about audio forums is that we have different opinions. I read and enjoy your posts, preferences and opinions. But IMHO in order to say straight on that I am incorrect you have to show more than a few individual cases taken from WBF and refer ambiguously that " There are many such examples, one has to search for them" and present divagations on turntables.

BTW, I am more optimist that you about the situation of this hobby - many people I know well have excellent systems they enjoy a lot. Surely I also know of stories as you tell, but they are a minority.

Micro, I have been presenting examples. In many posts of many visits. I have also mentioned there are many apogees that I haven't liked. I have also heard vintage TTs that do low resolution. The examples I did not see were in your post, of the vintage/DIY stuff you did not like. I have no reason to know if you visited amateurs or the right rooms (right being the ones I liked). If you did visit the rooms I liked, and on many examples we can tally that I liked the speaker and you did not, maybe we can agree that our tastes differ. Till then, all I will say is that the facts I am basing my opinions on, differ from the facts that you are basing your opinions on.

 

[bonzo75]

Btw, if you cannot state examples due to sensitive issues, you can PM.

 

[marty]

Someone is apparently very good at Photoshop!
Can we see "Ferrari Red" please? or my favorite "Eggplant", (which is a dark purple, almost black) for the ultimate Darth Vader look?

 

[microstrip]

Someone is apparently very good at Photoshop!
Can we see "Ferrari Red" please? or my favorite "Eggplant", (which is a dark purple, almost black) for the ultimate Darth Vader look?

Not the WAMMs, but my old Watt/Puppy7 in Ferrari Red.

 

[MasterChief]

Someone is apparently very good at Photoshop!
Can we see "Ferrari Red" please? or my favorite "Eggplant", (which is a dark purple, almost black) for the ultimate Darth Vader look?

Sure, made in a hurry though and when you change colour it is easy to get nasty side effects and to make it perfect you have to spend more than 2 min. I hope they give an idea of the look. And colours do appear different on non calibrated screens so take that in consideration.

 

[MadFloyd]

Gorgeous, nice job.

 

[andromedaaudio]

And high gloss black , black is a classic colour i like it , i like wilsons in silver also , i m always afraid one gets tiresome after a while from yellow or something like that, red for example.
but i could be wrong

 

[Steve Williams]

Mine are black almondine which is the color that looks like a summer squash and shown above. I never tire of them.

 

[NorthStar]

I like that, very ?

* Can you try Midnight Satin Sky Blue? :b ...And, Dark Ocean Marine Navy Blue?

...Moon Star Eclipse? :b And, ...Pitch Horizon Black?

 

[marty]

Sure, made in a hurry though and when you change colour it is easy to get nasty side effects and to make it perfect you have to spend more than 2 min. I hope they give an idea of the look. And colours do appear different on non calibrated screens so take that in consideration.

LOVE the purple. I'll take 2 please.

 

[mauidan]

For our Photoshop expert, WA port hardware and support frames are not the same color as the speaker enclosures.

 

[andromedaaudio]

scanspeak illuminator mids at least thats how it looks like
beautifull construction

 

[GaryProtein]

Come on guys, those bright colors are just too distracting from the music.

Unlike children, speakers should be heard, not seen. . . at least not very much.

Muted colors are the way to go.