New Monster Audio Research Amplifier

[Andre Marc]

Andre- for what it's worth, 'bad' recordings that I still listen to- Layla, Blind Faith, Led Zep I, to name a few.

Give me Clapton's guitar or Coltrane's horn "badly" recorded any day of the week over a beautifully recorded violin with great "timbre and tone colors " playing
music I could not give a crap about any day of the week.

 

[Bill Hart]

Give me Clapton's guitar or Coltrane's horn "badly" recorded any day of the week over a beautifully recorded violin with great "timbre and tone colors " playing
music I could not give a crap about any day of the week.

There's a place for both- I can't listen to an 'audiophile' record if the music is wallpaper, so I agree, but there are plenty of great recordings with yummy music. And, my mood dictates what I want to listen to at any given time. So, I'll hop from Ben Harper (the White Lies album sounds fab even though it is not 'audiophile'- and it deserves to be cranked up) to a small jazz/vocal thing, to a classical or choral piece. FWIW, Rockitman recently mentioned his purchase of the Ansermat Ballet records on Classic. I forgot I had that set because I played one disc- probably the Nutcracker, and went into a coma. Last night I pulled out the Schumann disc from the set- it was marvelous.

 

[Andre Marc]

Although you have to admit, they really went out of their way on El Camino to make it sound horrible

Actually, I am not a big fan, I just used them to illustrate the point. I believe they are over hyped hipsters.

And yes, they smashed the **** out of El Camino...screaming loud and zero dynamics. The guitar player did the same
thing to the Dr. John album he ruined, er, produced.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Give me Clapton's guitar or Coltrane's horn "badly" recorded any day of the week over a beautifully recorded violin with great "timbre and tone colors " playing
music I could not give a crap about any day of the week.

So basically it's sounds good vs. sounds correct, correct?

 

[Andre Marc]

There's a place for both- I can't listen to an 'audiophile' record if the music is wallpaper, so I agree, but there are plenty of great recordings with yummy music. And, my mood dictates what I want to listen to at any given time. So, I'll hop from Ben Harper (the White Lies album sounds fab even though it is not 'audiophile'- and it deserves to be cranked up) to a small jazz/vocal thing, to a classical or choral piece. FWIW, Rockitman recently mentioned his purchase of the Ansermat Ballet records on Classic. I forgot I had that set because I played one disc- probably the Nutcracker, and went into a coma. Last night I pulled out the Schumann disc from the set- it was marvelous.

Of course, there is a place for everything. Sometimes you get lucky and "audiophile" recordings can contain music that you can actually stay awake too.

 

[Andre Marc]

So basically it's sounds good vs. sounds correct, correct?

Uh, no. Emotional connection to music is elemental. Otherwise you fall into the trap that many audiophiles do..which to become an armchair producer, or recording/mastering engineer.

Bottom line, correct is great, being moved by the music..even better.

 

[jazdoc]

Looks like we need a thread for "Great Pressing/Bad Music" thread...I think I'll start one...

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

It's hard to argue that good source material shouldn't be used. But, at the same time, there's so much great music that was not recorded on audiophile records, or the recordings are simply not great but the music is- there's not much you can do about a bad recording, but the challenge for me is to make my system work well on 'average' records too. I went the 'no tone control' route back in 1975 or so with my first ARC preamp-(it had tone controls, but you could take them out of the circuit). Since then, most audiophiles have rejected tone controls and equalizers, with a few exceptions. I wonder if there is a role for a good quality equalizer in this context- for the 'average' records- and one which won't do more harm than good in the process.

The big problem wouldn't be the quality of the equalizers, but the quality of the equalizing. The equalizers might take the rap, but operator error is the most likely culprit. EQ is best used reductively and very subtly. If you affect any strong changes, they're probably just going to become obnoxious with time.

Tim

 

[A.wayne]

I guess I am looking for something different. I want to trip. I want to connect to the music. For me to listen for frequency response, timbre, etc I would need to put on a white lab coat.

I thought all professional reviewers wore white coats .....

Give me Clapton's guitar or Coltrane's horn "badly" recorded any day of the week over a beautifully recorded violin with great "timbre and tone colors " playing
music I could not give a crap about any day of the week.

Nothing wrong with such an approach , just not the correct way to review equipment ...

So basically it's sounds good vs. sounds correct, correct?

Yes, it looks that way .....

 

[asiufy]

Myles,

Thanks, I'm often in NYC, and I might just take you up on that offer I'll be in RMAF next month, with a quick stop in NYC...

I think my point has been extensively made by Andre (and others). I have a sizeable collection of music. Badly recorded or not, it's music I like. Of course, nobody PREFERS badly recorded music, so I actively search better sounding versions of the albums I enjoy. But, if there's no "audiophile approved" version of a classic, like Soft Machine's 3rd, or Jethro Tull's "Aqualung", I'll stick with what's available, because the music is that good.
Contrary to some of you, the flute doesn't have to sound like the real instrument playing in my room for me to enjoy the music. If it's Ian Anderson playing it, I don't care if it's buried between 5 generations of tape The point here is that, a good system will provide enjoyment of your albums, regardless of recording quality, while still letting you know that the recording is exceptional, or that it could've been much better.

cheers,
alexandre

 

[Bill Hart]

Actually, I am not a big fan, I just used them to illustrate the point. I believe they are over hyped hipsters.

And yes, they smashed the **** out of El Camino...screaming loud and zero dynamics. The guitar player did the same
thing to the Dr. John album he ruined, er, produced.

Speaking of hipsters, you might enjoy the following, it just totally cracks me up:

http://diehipster.wordpress.com/

 

[Bill Hart]

Myles,

Thanks, I'm often in NYC, and I might just take you up on that offer I'll be in RMAF next month, with a quick stop in NYC...

I think my point has been extensively made by Andre (and others). I have a sizeable collection of music. Badly recorded or not, it's music I like. Of course, nobody PREFERS badly recorded music, so I actively search better sounding versions of the albums I enjoy. But, if there's no "audiophile approved" version of a classic, like Soft Machine's 3rd, or Jethro Tull's "Aqualung", I'll stick with what's available, because the music is that good.
Contrary to some of you, the flute doesn't have to sound like the real instrument playing in my room for me to enjoy the music. If it's Ian Anderson playing it, I don't care if it's buried between 5 generations of tape The point here is that, a good system will provide enjoyment of your albums, regardless of recording quality, while still letting you know that the recording is exceptional, or that it could've been much better.

cheers,
alexandre

One of the old Tull albums actually sounds pretty good, i can't remember if it is Benefit or Stand-up. I have a MFSL version of Aqualung that I bought new when it came out- it's not really a great recording, but what a great bunch of music. Saw them back then, right around the time Aqualung was released. Loved the sound of that guitarist Martin Barre?
Mountain opened for them, this was so long ago-. Saw Leslie West very recently, it was sad really.

 

[A.wayne]

@ Asuify,

One can derive pleasure from anything , its all about your goal ....

 

[Andre Marc]

Speaking of hipsters, you might enjoy the following, it just totally cracks me up:

http://diehipster.wordpress.com/

Hysterical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brooklyn is kinda the capital for shop glass wearing, bearded, flannel, craft beer brewing hipsters.

Love it!

 

[Andre Marc]

I thought all professional reviewers wore white coats .....



Nothing wrong with such an approach , just not the correct way to review equipment ...



Yes, it looks that way .....

Actually, I wear a velvet jump suit.

 

[Andre Marc]

Myles,

Thanks, I'm often in NYC, and I might just take you up on that offer I'll be in RMAF next month, with a quick stop in NYC...

I think my point has been extensively made by Andre (and others). I have a sizeable collection of music. Badly recorded or not, it's music I like. Of course, nobody PREFERS badly recorded music, so I actively search better sounding versions of the albums I enjoy. But, if there's no "audiophile approved" version of a classic, like Soft Machine's 3rd, or Jethro Tull's "Aqualung", I'll stick with what's available, because the music is that good.
Contrary to some of you, the flute doesn't have to sound like the real instrument playing in my room for me to enjoy the music. If it's Ian Anderson playing it, I don't care if it's buried between 5 generations of tape The point here is that, a good system will provide enjoyment of your albums, regardless of recording quality, while still letting you know that the recording is exceptional, or that it could've been much better.

cheers,
alexandre

Did you hear the 40th Anniv remix of Aqualung? I think Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree did a great job, as he did with the King Crimson reissues. He just finished the ELP discog as well.

 

[Bill Hart]

Hysterical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brooklyn is kinda the capital for shop glass wearing, bearded, flannel, craft beer brewing hipsters.

Love it!

Back when I lived in Brooklyn, it wasn't hip. It was almost a place you sorta apologized for living in, when in the 80's, everybody had their Manhattan lofts, or whatever. But, the rent was a little cheaper, there were nice brownstones, and, as long as you didn't walk down the wrong block, it was cool. And it did have soul. Williamsburg was a no-man's land of street tough hispanics, hasidic jews and peter luger's, the only crime free block in the area. (Thanks to the mafia, or the heavy police brass clientele). Now, it's quite different, I guess. That blog is hysterical, though. I am literally laughing out loud when i read some of the entries.

 

[Bill Hart]

Did you hear the 40th Anniv remix of Aqualung? I think Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree did a great job, as he did with the King Crimson reissues. He just finished the ELP discog as well.

I'd be very interested in a good vinyl reissue of In the Court. The pink labels are pretty pricey.

 

[jadis]

I guess I get irked when a bit of snobbishness creeps in. At audios shows I hear the same dozen records..Jennifer Warnes, Nils Lofgren (PLEASE no more!), etc,

You know what rooms were PACKED at Newport and CES??? The ones playing off the shelf, non audiophile sanctioned albums. Rock N Roll puts asses in the seats. The Music Hall room was standing
room only playing the Black Keys.

I personally do not feel that it's a case of snobbishness when these kinds of records are played but is actually a case wherein they feel those type of recordings are the 'best' (and not exclusively audiophile albums) in exemplifying the gears which they want to sell, and I believe that is there main objective. I guess the audio reviewers were the ones who started dividing music via audio into low, mid, highs and terms like clarity, separation, slam, etc. so in shows the tendency is actually look for these things and then the exhibitors would like them to hear these things too. At least that is the objective.

 

[Andre Marc]

I personally do not feel that it's a case of snobbishness when these kinds of records are played but is actually a case wherein they feel those type of recordings are the 'best' (and not exclusively audiophile albums) in exemplifying the gears which they want to sell, and I believe that is there main objective. I guess the audio reviewers were the ones who started dividing music via audio into low, mid, highs and terms like clarity, separation, slam, etc. so in shows the tendency is actually look for these things and then the exhibitors would like them to hear these things too. At least that is the objective.

My point is that soul, performance, and general musical appeal trump a "good recording" for me. The rooms at CES and Newport where they were exclusively playing audiophile drivel were empty 90% of the time. When I was successful in getting my own CD-R of various tracks played I was asked each an every time what the song titles were.

I even gave away my CD-R at the end to an exhibitor who begged me for it.